Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

I get it, you are saying that in vitro research is UNRELIABLE. So the researchers in Sweden are stupid or what? And those peers who reviewed the paper are also stupid?

Anyway, how long does it take to progress onto animal studies and then onto humans? Cancer takes months or years for damage to accumulate and cause symptoms, by the time the trial is over, it could be too late. Most would be suffering from cancer already, unless the models failed along the process, as you said.

Unlike other countries, people in Indonesia can choose the vaccine they want. I'll pick inactivated over mRNA.
I haven't in any of my messages about these researchers said they were stupid - they are performing necessary basic research - which 100,000s of researchers (probably millions) are doing right now - most of which comes to nothing (this is the scientific method). I spent years in uni chopping the heads off rats and trying to figure out how memory works and it came to nothing in the end, none of the models my Principal Investigator had dreamed up were possible to prove in the end.

All I'm asking is that you keep in mind that this research is in the very earliest phase - it could take years to get it into animals (research funding is slow/ hard to get - then there is the ethical approval process for doing animal studies etc.). Once PhD students graduate many leave their lab and the topic can get dropped if no new PhD student is replacing them (this happens a lot when the principal investigator fails to secure funding). It likely will not go anywhere (in my opinion).

The scientific process is lots of people around the world acting independently and trying lots of different stuff - some of which ends up being important.

About your final point - as I said in an earlier message - if you are using this research as proof that mRNA vaccines are bad then this is not the right study to use because it shows that all the current vaccines are bad (and also getting the virus is bad) lol (by you I don't mean you personally - I mean it in general).
 
Here is another article which happens to be a little more critical of the FDA but also provides some numbers with research articles cited at the beginning. I personally am not making any conclusions or assumptions just providing information so someone can do their own research.

And a lot of drugs are also misused by doctors and indeed Drs in certain countries (US and here among lots of others) are corrupted by the drugs companies so they over-prescribe and get up to all sorts of nasty tricks.
I ALWAYS do a literature review of any medicines I'm prescribed. Luckily I am a physiologist so am armed to understand medical literature. This is sort of off-topic and not about the FDA and vaccines - so sorry mods. I just want Hawk256 to know that I think it's always valid to be skeptical about the FDA/ Drs/ etc. I just think people need to be careful not to get sucked into conspiracy gateways.
 
I haven't in any of my messages about these researchers said they were stupid -

I didn’t say you said that. I’m asking what you think of them. They were doing ‘in vitro research’ which is “unreliable”, are they stupid (wasting their time and effort) or what?

Indeed, this basic research is in the earliest phase. But it’s also an early warning, if there’s smoke, there’s fire. Why take the risk when you have a choice of a safer one? It’s not like some expert saying (post #322) “not getting vaccinated is still more dangerous” which I think is wrong because it’s essentially saying “vaccine is dangerous but not getting the vaccine is more dangerous”. They should just remove “still more” in their statement or sentence.

About your final point - as I said in an earlier message - if you are using this research as proof that mRNA vaccines are bad then this is not the right study to use because it shows that all the current vaccines are bad (and also getting the virus is bad) lol (by you I don't mean you personally - I mean it in general).

I understand the key of the study is vaccine with the full-length spike protein in them. Your post #368 says “If their proposed model of damage to the immune system is real there are billions of healthy people in the world right this moment they could check the model in (anyone with the Pfizer/ AZ/ Moderna vaccines which had full-length spike protein in them)”. On post #370 “Several vaccines that incorporate the full-length spike include the Oxford/Astra-Zeneca adenovirus vector vaccine (ChAdOx1 nCoV‐19), Ad5 vector, the LNP- encapsulated mRNA vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech (BNT162b2) and Moderna (mRNA‐1273), and the Novavax vaccine that uses the recombinant spike protein (NVX‐CoV2373)". On post #372 “To be honest I think the Chinese ones probably have the full-length spike too”.

But now you are saying the study shows “that all the current vaccines are bad”. Are you sure that’s what the study shows? Because I see that you are still uncertain (as you said “probably”) if inactivated vaccines have the full-length spike. Unless, you can confirm now that Sinovac and Sinopharm have full-length spike too.

As Dr Mikolaj Raszek recommended (post #381) in his video (10:27: AUTHORS’ RECOMMENDATION) > Not to use full length of spike protein but only the Receptor Binding Domain or RBD portion for vaccines.
 
Unless, you can confirm now that Sinovac and Sinopharm have full-length spike too.
They have the full virus - including the spike in them.

Regarding your first point - I obviously haven't explained myself clearly, I apologize. In early scientific research assuming that if there is smoke, there must be a fire you will live a very fearful existence - there are millions of studies that eventually are proven to be wrong; the vast majority of models are discarded on the path of learning and refining better theories. I'm just warning you that any research of this early type should be taken with a huge pinch of salt (I'm sure the researchers themselves would agree with me).
 
So, now we have official confirmation....the magic vaccine, promised and sold with 98% efficacity and which was going to save the world in fact "expires" after 9 months.....


So, booster it is for everybody....
What will be the duration of efficiency of that booster ? Nobody knows ......

"The Commission did say there were no studies yet expressly addressing the effectiveness of booster shots on transmission of Covid-19, but said it was likely that they provided longer protection than provided by initial shots."

And France is pushing it even further..... 7 months !

"Given the fact that the virus is circulating more, the government announces the reduction of the validity period of PCR tests. From Monday, the validity period of PCR and antigenic tests will be reduced to 24 hours, compared to 72 hours and then 48 hours since its launch. From January 15, the health pass will be deactivated without a booster dose within "seven months after the last injection," says Olivier Véran."


And as if that was not enough as bad news, a new variant arrived ! Of course it is worse and more dangerous that all the previous ones (wouldn't be fun if it wasn't..)



I expect Netflix to start a series on the Covid drama. Number of episodes illimited.
 
Normally variants are identified once they are already fairly widespread. I'm guessing it is already in Indonesia. If it takes off here and evades vaccines then you can wave goodbye to opening up Bali next year.
 
Normally variants are identified once they are already fairly widespread. I'm guessing it is already in Indonesia. If it takes off here and evades vaccines then you can wave goodbye to opening up Bali next year.
Agreed.
And will probably blame it on "other countries"

 




I guess “the end is near” :LOL:. Border closure and lockdowns all over again?
 

I guess “the end is near” :LOL:. Border closure and lockdowns all over again?
BTW I think you are more a fan of the Sinovac/ Sinopharm vaccines - they might be more effective against this variant (cos it has all the mutations on the spike part which the mRNA and AZ vaccines only target - so they are weaker against mutations of the spike part). But we don't know enough right now to make any conclusions.
 




I guess “the end is near” :LOL:. Border closure and lockdowns all over again?
Europe going back in panic mode....

Virus is already in HKG and Israel.....


"Israel's health ministry announced on Friday that it has recorded its first case of the new COVID-19 variant, with the infected person being an Israeli returning from Malawi.

Two others are also suspected of carrying the strain but test results have not yet been received. All three people are vaccinated.

Israel was one of the first countries to respond to the new strain, first detected in South Africa, with travel restrictions"
 
If an mRNA vaccinated person can transmit it to another mRNA vaccinated person across a hallway, there is no hope for containing this variant, and barely a hope for even slowing it down.
 
But ... vaccine is mandated. Those antivaxes must be bad and stupid. IKR...
As well it should be. Yes, antivaxxers are bad and stupid (at the very least in understanding statistics and compassion). I would elaborate on why vaccines are still important with this new development, but you have already shown over and over and over your unwillingness to or inability to understand the simple concepts.
 
As well it should be. Yes, antivaxxers are bad and stupid (at the very least in understanding statistics and compassion). I would elaborate on why vaccines are still important with this new development, but you have already shown over and over and over your unwillingness to or inability to understand the simple concepts.
When things are not certain, people will only see what they want to see.

With other diseases. For example Polio. If you don't get vaccinated, you WILL get infected, you WILL get sick. If you are vaccinated, you ARE safe.

With Covid vaccines?... Maybe yes, may be no. Vaccinated, may get infected, maybe not. may get sick, maybe not. May die.. yes, you may too... Unvaccinated, may get infected, maybe not. may get sick, maybe not. Could be dead, but many survive too..

You know what. I am happier if I am wrong. But apparently, so far I am right. After vaccine, the virus mutate to even more ferocious. Shouldn't we all know that this will happen as the virus known as smart virus with high ability to mutate and adapt? Have they done enough research for long term side effect of the mRna technology to our cell ability to read the virus and produce the enzyme that is needed to fight the virus?

who knows.
 
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And for my curiosity, I read many of the posts in here. Seems like every body are scientist... but how many exactly that really in the field and deal with the research?
 
And for my curiosity, I read many of the posts in here. Seems like every body are scientist... but how many exactly that really in the field and deal with the research?
A good dose of common sense, and not watching too much TV or social shit media is usually enough to have a fair idea of what makes sense and what not.
 
So, now we have official confirmation....the magic vaccine, promised and sold with 98% efficacity and which was going to save the world in fact "expires" after 9 months.....


So, booster it is for everybody....
What will be the duration of efficiency of that booster ? Nobody knows ......

"The Commission did say there were no studies yet expressly addressing the effectiveness of booster shots on transmission of Covid-19, but said it was likely that they provided longer protection than provided by initial shots."

And France is pushing it even further..... 7 months !

"Given the fact that the virus is circulating more, the government announces the reduction of the validity period of PCR tests. From Monday, the validity period of PCR and antigenic tests will be reduced to 24 hours, compared to 72 hours and then 48 hours since its launch. From January 15, the health pass will be deactivated without a booster dose within "seven months after the last injection," says Olivier Véran."


And as if that was not enough as bad news, a new variant arrived ! Of course it is worse and more dangerous that all the previous ones (wouldn't be fun if it wasn't..)



I expect Netflix to start a series on the Covid drama. Number of episodes illimited.


Why does all this sound familiar? Oh yeah the UK variant took place almost a year ago right when things looked like they would be opening up even more.
 

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