DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[R Cameron]

Why is it so hard to just admit that MRNA vaccines are something new and unknown.

That is only half-true, the technology is decades old and has been viewed for over 20 years as the holy-grail of potential vaccine technology. Human trials of other mRNA vaccines have been happening at small scale for about 15 years. Yes, Covid is the first widescale rollout of mRNA vaccines and there are still some unknowns, but mRNA is not new.

If we are all knowing why didn't we foresee the problems with blood clotting, heart inflammation or neurological disorders?

I believe you are thinking of the recombinant vaccines from AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson.

What are the long term effects? What are possible future problems? No one can answer these questions, not even the experts you like to refer to.

Yes, there are always unknowns, but it must be weighed against the knowns. What is known is that mRNA technology has been a decades long pursuit specifically because for decades it has been widely recognized as having an inherently very high safety profile. What else is known is that Covid is killing millions of people, and left unchecked it will kill many millions more.

 

[Hawk256]

That is only half-true, the technology is decades old and has been viewed for over 20 years as the holy-grail of potential vaccine technology. Human trials of other mRNA vaccines have been happening at small scale for about 15 years. Yes, Covid is the first widescale rollout of mRNA vaccines and there are still some unknowns, but mRNA is not new.


I believe you are thinking of the recombinant vaccines from AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson.


Yes, there are always unknowns, but it must be weighed against the knowns. What is known is that mRNA technology has been a decades long pursuit specifically because for decades it has been widely recognized as having an inherently very high safety profile. What else is known is that Covid is killing millions of people, and left unchecked it will kill many millions more.

This site is very clear and easy to follow. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-mrna-vaccines/ And rightfully they admit that the there are risks and unknowns. I'm also sure that the dozens of medicines that had to be taken off the market for health and safety reasons were looking good at first, until they weren't. And it really doesn't matter which vaccines I am referring to they are all new and ultimately prove the same point.

 

[HappyMan]

This site is very clear and easy to follow. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-mrna-vaccines/ And rightfully they admit that the there are risks and unknowns. I'm also sure that the dozens of medicines that had to be taken off the market for health and safety reasons were looking good at first, until they weren't. And it really doesn't matter which vaccines I am referring to they are all new and ultimately prove the same point.

Would you mind writing out a clear and concise version of that point? It might be a different question, but if you met someone who only had you as a source of information about the Covid vaccines, what would you say to them?

You don't have to explain yourself to me, of course, and I know I'm a bit snarky, but I'm genuinely curious about your bottom-line opinion. Harry had a good point earlier about people wanting to release their anxiety, even though they are intent on following the best advice available...
(Been typing and deleting things here that were intended to express that "I am not an a-hole who just attacks people on the internet for fun", but I couldn't come up with anything that seemed genuine. The vaccine/Covid stuff is just so cut and dried to me, since we only actually know what we actually know. Raising doubts without evidence... that seems wrong when there are real world consequences. Also, the infectiousness of the disease makes vaccination an ethical imperative for non-hermits, to my understanding. I'm having difficulty seeing the middle ground.)

 

[Nimbus]

Nobody knows if Covid itself has a long term effect, but there are many cases where people never fully recover to their pre-Covid health condition. The potential long-term side effects of the vaccine has to be balanced against the potential long-term side effects of the disease.

The numbers in USA are very clear, 99% of people who recently died from Covid were not vaccinated.

In the world 3.5 billions of people have been vaccinated, yet the side effects are not statistically significant. In the mean time the pandemic has claimed 4 million lives (and counting). The vaccines are not perfect, but they’re the best we got today. Anybody advocating people to not take them are being irresponsible, and I’m not gonna apologize for giving him a hard time. I’m tired of seeing my FB feed filled with death announcements.

It’s ok to academically examine how we can do this better, but in the mean time people are dying by the thousands. Waiting is not an option.

 

[Balifrog]

I’m tired of seeing my FB feed filled with death announcements.

Or you have a HUGE number of F.B. "friends", or you're really unlucky...

Haven't heard in all my REAL LIVE environment of anybody who caught it, let alone died from it. And that's with a family of 4, who all have childre and granchildren.

But, I admit, I don't do FB, Twatter or Instagram, so I don't have 1,500 virtual friends.....

 

[Balifrog]

Typical example of panic creating overreaction :

"President Joe Biden slammed big social media for not removing misinformation on COVID-19 on their platforms and therefore "killing people."

Clearly social media (and MSM) post a lot of B.S., but nobody is obliged to believe it and try bleach to fight Covid ......

And then you have this also in the same style....

England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists

International experts say ‘unethical experiment’ could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop

www.theguardian.com

"England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists​

International experts say ‘unethical experiment’ could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop"

But hell, 1200 scientists... we MUST believe them.

N.B. : I am far from being a fan of Bojo, but at least he has the guts.
BOJO 1 - MACRON minus 10

 

[Hawk256]

No need to make any more points because just admitting that we don't know seems to go against the grain to so many people for some reason. I do find it a little ironic however that the same people that are so pro vaccine are the same ones that are against medicines like hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin because we don't have long term studies from them. For the record, I have been vaccinated with Sinovac but I refused the AZ vaccine. Make of that what you will.

 

[Balifrog]

medicines like hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin because we don't have long term studies from them.

Hydroxycloroquine has been used massively since 50 years at least all over the world.
And I do agree with the rest of your post.

 

[dafluff]

Or you have a HUGE number of F.B. "friends", or you're really unlucky...

Haven't heard in all my REAL LIVE environment of anybody who caught it, let alone died from it. And that's with a family of 4, who all have childre and granchildren.

But, I admit, I don't do FB, Twatter or Instagram, so I don't have 1,500 virtual friends.....

Great job discounting other people's experiences just because you personally haven't been affected.

 

[Ruserious]

Haven't heard in all my REAL LIVE environment of anybody who caught it, let alone died from it.

You must live like a hermit if you haven't known people personally affected by this.

 

[Balifrog]

You must live like a hermit if you haven't known people personally affected by this.

No, not really..... As I mentionned many times, I have been going to the pub, the restaurant, do my grocery shopping every 2 days without any change since this thing started. Well of course, since 4th July no more pubs or.restaurants...

Now, I am aware of a high increase in deaths at the Missus jungle village, usually she told me 1 or twice a week "one person died in the village". Now it's more like 4 or 5 per week. We can reasonably conclude that some may be Covid related.
But I am also pretty sure they don't appear in any official statistic. No need to add to the panic.

 

[centurion]

Of course there will be new strains, this thing is here to stay. Same as the flu, and MANY other diseases...
Only dreamers could think that if we vaccinate the whole world, it will simply disapear.
It won't
So stop stressing and get on with your life !

At the beginning of the pandemic, there was a discussion will the series of mutations result in a weaker virus. The article is saying WHO counts on stronger variants, not weaker ones. For that reason, we should hope that more of the therapeutics or repurposed drugs would work as well.

I personally knew 3 persons who died of covid (55-61 yrs), my wife knew dozen or more (33-60 yrs). There are people around me that I know are already sick or have been, accelerating with the delta variant with much stronger symptoms. So it becomes a little bit scary in Indonesia. And I have been abroad recently, I have relaxed life, do not wash groceries and do not wait 4 days to read the newspapers.

Indonesians are with Chinese vaccines and AZ and that is only what they can choose. Chinese are safer but weaker and need 2 months to start working, while AZ kicks soon after the 1st dose and has some side effects( sometimes even fatal). Also, Russians developed the Ebola vaccine many years ago and adapted it for covid, nobody died yet from that one, it is highly efficient and much safer than US Trump vaccines.

 

[Balifrog]

Now, another thing...
For all those in the US who blindly believe in Big Pharma, scientists, doctors and the C.D.C. , remember the Opoïd drama that devastated the US and caused a very high number of deaths over a long period

Understanding the Opioid Overdose Epidemic | Opioids | CDC

The rise in opioid overdose deaths can be described in three distinct waves. There was an increase prescribing opioids in the 1990s; rapid increases in overdose deaths involving heroin beginning in 2010; and in 2013, with significant increases in overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids...

www.cdc.gov

All the insitutions I mentioned above could not have NOT been aware of this drama, nevertheless CDC did nothing (except keeping the stats updated), Big Pharma continued to massively produce this poison, doctors continued to prescribe it, and pharmacist to sell it.

Of course, they were not all rotten, but many preferred to simply close their eyes and continue pocket the money......

Worth a thought.

 

[fastpitch17]

It appears the antivaxers and anti covid legitimacy groups are thinning out. Eventually we will be rid of them. Good riddence.

 

[Nimbus]

Typical example of panic creating overreaction :

"President Joe Biden slammed big social media for not removing misinformation on COVID-19 on their platforms and therefore "killing people."

Clearly social media (and MSM) post a lot of B.S., but nobody is obliged to believe it and try bleach to fight Covid ......

And then you have this also in the same style....

England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists

International experts say ‘unethical experiment’ could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop

www.theguardian.com

"England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists​

International experts say ‘unethical experiment’ could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop"

But hell, 1200 scientists... we MUST believe them.

N.B. : I am far from being a fan of Bojo, but at least he has the guts.
BOJO 1 - MACRON minus 10

In the mean time you choose to believe thousands of conspiracy theorists on the internet, the vast majority of which have no science degree, or any degree.

 

[Nimbus]

Or you have a HUGE number of F.B. "friends", or you're really unlucky...

Haven't heard in all my REAL LIVE environment of anybody who caught it, let alone died from it. And that's with a family of 4, who all have childre and granchildren.

But, I admit, I don't do FB, Twatter or Instagram, so I don't have 1,500 virtual friends.....

Good for you. Now I understand why you think Covid is not real.

Personally I have never known anybody dying from Ebola either, but I still believe the doctors over the conspiracy websites.

 

[Nimbus]

No need to make any more points because just admitting that we don't know seems to go against the grain to so many people for some reason. I do find it a little ironic however that the same people that are so pro vaccine are the same ones that are against medicines like hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin because we don't have long term studies from them. For the record, I have been vaccinated with Sinovac but I refused the AZ vaccine. Make of that what you will.

HCQ and Ivermectin have been studied, and doctors know they can have serious side effects in large doses. That’s why they’re wary about these drugs.

Even something as simple as vitamin D can be dangerous when you take too much of it, but doctors figured that in the short term large doses of vit D help more than they hurt.

 

[Hawk256]

HCQ and Ivermectin have been studied, and doctors know they can have serious side effects in large doses. That’s why they’re wary about these drugs.

Even something as simple as vitamin D can be dangerous when you take too much of it, but doctors figured that in the short term large doses of vit D help more than they hurt.

Is blood clotting, heart inflammation or a neurological disorder not a serious side effect? How many people have died from HCQ and Ivermectin? More or less than how many have died from the COVID vaccine?

 

[R Cameron]

HCQ and Ivermectin have been studied, and doctors know they can have serious side effects in large doses. That’s why they’re wary about these drugs.

Do you have a source for that with Ivermectin? I saw one study from many years ago that dosed people with about 10x the recommended dose and saw no serious side effects. From what I have seen it has a safety profile similar to Aspirin.

 

[Nimbus]

Is blood clotting, heart inflammation or a neurological disorder not a serious side effect? How many people have died from HCQ and Ivermectin? More or less than how many have died from the COVID vaccine?

AZ vaccine was stopped in Europe due to blood clotting, but it was allowed to continue because the cases are very rare, that is 18 deaths out of 25 million. That is 0.000072 percent. Compare that to Covid that has 2-4% fatality rate. Using the 2% figure, Covid is 27 thousand times deadlier than the AZ vaccine.

HCQ and Ivermectin is relatively safe for their approved purposes, because the doses are low.

Even with low doses HCQ has considerable side effects, there are people on this forum who can barely tolerate it just as malaria prevention medicine. The dose prescribed for Covid is about 10 times that.

Ivermectin is approved in Indonesia for worm medication, taken once a year. The dose prescribed for Covid is exponentially higher.