DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

You are assuming everyone is of the same opinion as that particular group. You should know better really, much as you are implying there are no muslims in Bali, c'mon.

I am aware that many Muslims do not necessarily follow every fatwa from MUI. I also have not implied there are no Muslims in Bali.

However, I believe the rejection rate will be high among Muslims, especially since a viable alternative (Sinovac) is available. I am not making this statement lightly, but basing it on precedent with the MR vaccine (Rubella) which received the same ruling from MUI. This has led to rejections all over Indonesia, for example in Palembang, where only 52% of children were allowed by their parents to be immunized. Can you imagine the wastage and disruption if the AZ vaccine is rejected at that rate? Or generously, even half that?

In the case of a scarce product that is also highly perishable such as a vaccine, the government has a moral obligation to ensure that the rejection rate is as low as possible. One way it can do this is by allocating them to regions that have a fewer percentage of Muslims, while using the Sinovac vaccine, which has MUI's full endorsement, elsewhere. I don't see how this can be construed as "nasty" unless you're implying that the Balinese are less deserving of a vaccine, and I'm sure that is not what you meant.
 
"....the government has a moral obligation to ensure that the rejection rate is as low as possible. One way it can do this is by allocating them to regions that have a fewer percentage of Muslims, while using the Sinovac vaccine, which has MUI's full endorsement, elsewhere. ...."
Such a step would have very serious political ramifications. Not all Muslims would refuse a vaccine and to be seen to deny access to vaccines in Muslim areas by sending the vaccines elsewhere, to say Bali, could be seized upon as an anti Muslim sentiment. I guess the safe thing to do would be to distribute vaccines based on population with a fall back to move by air vaccines that were not being taken up.
 
I am aware that many Muslims do not necessarily follow every fatwa from MUI. I also have not implied there are no Muslims in Bali.

However, I believe the rejection rate will be high among Muslims, especially since a viable alternative (Sinovac) is available. I am not making this statement lightly, but basing it on precedent with the MR vaccine (Rubella) which received the same ruling from MUI. This has led to rejections all over Indonesia, for example in Palembang, where only 52% of children were allowed by their parents to be immunized. Can you imagine the wastage and disruption if the AZ vaccine is rejected at that rate? Or generously, even half that?

In the case of a scarce product that is also highly perishable such as a vaccine, the government has a moral obligation to ensure that the rejection rate is as low as possible. One way it can do this is by allocating them to regions that have a fewer percentage of Muslims, while using the Sinovac vaccine, which has MUI's full endorsement, elsewhere. I don't see how this can be construed as "nasty" unless you're implying that the Balinese are less deserving of a vaccine, and I'm sure that is not what you meant.
I am not implying that Balinese are any more or less deserving than anyone on Java or any other island.

I already had people here asking my opinion about the vaccine (only because I am 'an educated westerner' I am no dr).
It wasn't about it being haram or not- the concerns seem to be : Is it safe?
I responded with: safer than not having it, for the vast majority & pointed them to the websites with info.

Re distribution-
I think we all know who will be the ones getting the front of the queue vaccines & it is unlikely to be one island or another.
It will be the clique at the top of the food-chain & their families.
I am also pretty sure the govt has some idea of how many people are likely to reject the vaccines on religious grounds & one would think that they would supply the area accordingly.
It seems the data is already out there as you were able to quote some of it re other vaccines.

I would rather see people pulling together for the good of the whole & getting as many vaccinated as possible.
In an ideal world.
However I figure any debate & discussion about mass vaccine roll outs at this stage are moot unless by some miracle RI has not only procured vaccines but also got some strategic method ready to roll for the masses.
 
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Wikipedia tells me Jawa Barat is 97% Muslim. If 97% of a population is going to refuse a vaccine in high demand, should it be shipped there? Especially when there are acceptable alternative vaccines? Does it not make sense to ship it to Bali where 87% are non-Muslim and will gladly take the life-saving vaccine?
It isn't 97% who are going to refuse though is it?
I figure 70-80% of people offered it would take it. Certainly of the people I know.
They just want to know it is safe. That appears to be the primary concern.
Lumping people into groups & assuming what they will or won't do is just like assuming muslims all hate dogs or never drink beer. Reality is much different from the assumptions.
& that irks me somewhat, so I shall leave it at that now I said what I had to say.
 
Such a step would have very serious political ramifications. Not all Muslims would refuse a vaccine and to be seen to deny access to vaccines in Muslim areas by sending the vaccines elsewhere, to say Bali, could be seized upon as an anti Muslim sentiment. I guess the safe thing to do would be to distribute vaccines based on population with a fall back to move by air vaccines that were not being taken up.

You don't think there would be (even more) serious political ramifications from "They're injecting us with haram vaccine (AZ), even though there is halal one! (Sinovac)"
 
It isn't 97% who are going to refuse though is it?
I figure 70-80% of people offered it would take it. Certainly of the people I know.
They just want to know it is safe. That appears to be the primary concern.
Lumping people into groups & assuming what they will or won't do is just like assuming muslims all hate dogs or never drink beer. Reality is much different from the assumptions.
& that irks me somewhat, so I shall leave it at that now I said what I had to say.

I understand your point, but I still think it best to match vaccines with demographics if there's a strong case for faster implementation. On its face this fatwa seems as though it would hinder mass vaccination in certain provinces, though perhaps the government spending a few days doing some polling could verify if that's a valid assumption or not.

I am not and would not advocate for Jawa Barat getting less vaccines and Bali more because of religious hesitance, rather divide the available vaccines accordingly so that each province still gets the same doses per million in population, with mostly Sinovac going to Jawa Barat and mostly AstraZeneca to Bali.
 
It is so strange watching one group of people try to come up with a rational and meaningful solution to another group's irrational and meaningless problem.

I can't decide if I should feel hopeful that people care so much about each other, despondent that this is still necessary in this day and age, or just like an asshole for making these observations.
 
Due to the MUI fatwa, and the perishable nature of the AZ vaccine, the government is mapping out areas which are more open to the vaccine.



1616327209164.png



 
Due to the MUI fatwa, and the perishable nature of the AZ vaccine, the government is mapping out areas which are more open to the vaccine.



View attachment 1736


In other word, a particular MUI administrator is willing to consider the vaccine as ‘halal’ if he gets a commissioner seat in a state-owned enterprise, which pays hundreds of millions of rupiahs a month. Maybe it’s just me, but it sounds like he’s willing to trade religious edict for money.
 
Wife and I got the first injection today. The neat little certificates they give us in a link to it and on paper says, Cornavac. No other name. Of course I asked and the nice young lady told me sinovac. Fine with me. I really didn't care any more which one it was. April 19 get followup.

So far, no side effects what so ever. Only been an hour and a half. See how the day goes for us. I just wanted the vaccine for the chance of if caught the problems are not as bad. Big thing when almost 70.

They did say not to travel. That sucks since I needed to make an appointment with the US Embassy for a new passport to get my KITAP renewed. That will be pushing it a bit.
 
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Wife and I got the first injection today. The neat little certificates they give us in a link to it and on paper says, Cornavac. No other name. Of course I asked and the nice young lady told me sinovac. Fine with me. I really didn't care any more which one it was. April 19 get followup.

So far, no side effects what so ever. Only been an hour and a half. See how the day goes for us. I just wanted the vaccine for the chance of if caught the problems are not as bad. Big thing when almost 70.

They did say not to travel. That sucks since I needed to make an appointment with the US Embassy for a new passport to get my KITAP renewed. That will be pushing it a bit.
Any questions about being WNA or did they not really check?
 
paper says, Cornavac. No other name. Of course I asked and the nice young lady told me sinovac.
Sinovac is the Chinese company, CoronaVac is the vaccine product. They are often used interchangeably for the vaccine.

So far, no side effects what so ever. Only been an hour and a half. See how the day goes for us.
Most people have stronger side effects from their second exposure to Covid or vaccine. So if you've been Covid infected before, expect the first vaccine dose to have stronger side effects, if you have not, expect the second vaccine dose to have stronger side effects. Side effects are simply a byproduct of your body launching a full-scale attack on the foreign enemy. The first time it encounters Covid it's not able to do so, but the second time it is.

They did say not to travel. That sucks since I needed to make an appointment with the US Embassy for a new passport to get my KITAP renewed. That will be pushing it a bit.
Just a recommendation, correct? If you are worried about the timing, I would go just before the 2nd dose, or plan to wait until 3 days after for potential side effects to subside.
 
On a side note, at GBK, they are using one of the arenas(near Gate 5) as a site for those wanting to get the vaccine. 14 March(Sunday) was busier than yesterday(21). Not sure if you can just walk up or if you need an appointment.

Make sure you have an id as they have a big sign that says No id, no vaccine. Traffic wise, it is fairly organized. If you don't want to enter through Gate 5, Gate 10 is now open(previously closed along with the rest of the gates).
 
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Bali receives 200,000 doses of the Astra Zeneca Covid-19 vaccine. This represents about 19% of the total AZ vaccines that Indonesia has received via the WHO Covax program.

They are to be distributed in three areas in Bali in a bid to create a "green zone".

 
The AstraZeneca vaccine will only be distributed to 6 provinces: Bali, East Java, East Nusa Tenggara, Riau Islands, North Sulawesi and Maluku.

Hard to imagine that MUI's decision that the vaccine is haram (but permissible in the absence of an alternative) and the majority religion of those regions did not play a role. Bali, North Sulawesi, and NTT have non-Muslim majorities, and Maluku has a sizeable population of the same.

East Java's chapter of MUI has gone against the national MUI in saying that AZ is in fact, halal.


 
On a side note, at GBK, they are using one of the arenas(near Gate 5) as a site for those wanting to get the vaccine. 14 March(Sunday) was busier than yesterday(21). Not sure if you can just wake up or if you need an appointment.

Make sure you have an id as they have a big sign that says No id, no vaccine. Traffic wise, it is fairly organized. If you don't want to enter through Gate 5, Gate 10 is now open(previously closed along with the rest of the gates).
It is just for over-60s and public officials [and they must have Jakarta ID cards]
 
some location is opening for Non-jakarta KTP.

the head MUI Jatim will be among the first receiver of AZ

here the overall progress so far:

 
According to Astra Zeneca it is not actually haram, as it doesn't have anything pig-related in it:


Which confirms my suspicion that halal certification is a business decision based on whether or not money is paid, and has little to do with whether or not a product contains pork or alcohol.
 

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