Digital Nomads (sick of them)

[R Cameron]

There is no education or expertize criteria for directors or commissioners.

I know that has been the case for quite some time, but I encountered some information that said it has changed with implementation of PerPres 20/2018 such that Director/Commissioner with ownership need to move to 313 without IMTA and Director(/Commissioner?) without ownership will stay on 312, with IMTA, and will (now) need to fit the position. I admit I may have misunderstood or misremembered, I will try to find that source again.

 

[centurion]

I know that has been the case for quite some time, but I encountered some information that said it has changed with implementation of PerPres 20/2018 such that Director/Commissioner with ownership need to move to 313 without IMTA and Director(/Commissioner?) without ownership will stay on 312, with IMTA, and will (now) need to fit the position. I admit I may have misunderstood or misremembered, I will try to find that source again.

You are right, the regulation requires education according to the position requirement and 5 years work experience for directors/commissioners on 312 visas according to PerMen 10/2018. But work permits for the above are issued without requiring to prove education and work experience neither or submit the contract. However, you need to submit AoA where the foreigner is appointed as a director when applying for a work permit.

This is not the first time that requirements in bylaws and in practice differ in Manpower Ministry.

 

[Dave70]

There is no education or expertize criteria for directors or commissioners.

And no need for new visa (313 or 314) to extend KITAP (director cum shareholder).

 

[centurion]

If you have now KITAP or KITAS as a director-worker and you want to continue as an investor, you have to switch your position (or KITAS/KITAP) to Investor trough your KanIm first. That approval will go till Dirjen Imigrasi. You do not need to go out and take visa or interrupt your current KITAS/KITAP.

 

[dosuken]

Hi folks. I'm new to this community so please forgive me if my question is inappropriate.

I'm a foreigner and I'm a husband of an Indonesian wife, and recently I've moved to Indonesia with spouse VISA (1 year Limited Stay Visa - Index C317). I've already obtained KITAS and finished the following process for (visiting Police, etc). So now I'm allowed to stay in Indonesia legally.

Since I was working in a previous country (where I was born), I've been working remotely for a foreign company, which is neither Indonesia nor the country. But since I don't have a work permit in Indonesia, I'm wondering if it's legal to work here. Looking at one of the previous answers, it seems OK to work according to what ManPower said, but my question is

• What do you fill in a form when you're asked about your occupation? e.g. In a hospital reception, etc.
• Can I pay tax even though I don't have a work permit? I assume when I pay it, I have to admit that I'm working for a foreign country, but won't be trouble if tax office doesn't recognize if it's legal?
• Since I'm working in a house, is the house considered as some sort of "working office"?

Is there anyone on a similar situation? Thanks.

 

[jstar]

finished the following process for (visiting Police, etc). So now I'm allowed to stay in Indonesia legally.

What do you fill in a form when you're asked about your occupation?

This makes me wonder if you really have taken all steps necessary?!

Because a SKTT (or KTP OA for KITAP holders) does mention the Pekerjaan (occupation). Just copy that (probably it says 'Others')

Can I pay tax even if I don't have a work permit?

If someone resides more than 183 days* in the country, and has a minimal income**, the person is required to report (and pay) to the tax authorities. This is theoretically on worldwide income.

* per year
** often the tax office will refuse to provide a tax ID (NPWP) if the foreigner doesn't work. All income (house abroad, pension, ...) should be included but they rather go for low hanging fruit and willingly ignore that

 

[dosuken]

Because a SKTT (or KTP OA for KITAP holders) does mention the Pekerjaan (occupation). Just copy that (probably it says 'Others')

Oh, yes. I just confirmed with my wife that "Others" is my case.

If someone resides more than 183 days in the country, and has a minimal income, the person is required to report (and pay) to the tax authorities. This is theoretically on worldwide income.

Thanks for the information. It's very helpful.

 

[R Cameron]

Is working online, part time, for an American company considered illegal?

Did you read this thread from the beginning? In summation; it depends. It's a very complicated topic and there aren't laws written specifically for this scenario.

 

[jstar]

Retirement Visa requires an income of $1500.00

That is one of the visa with the most well defined conditions, you can NOT do work of any kind in Indonesia on this visa, nor can you legally work remotely with a company in another country on this visa. So we really need to exclude that one from the discussion.

From a arbritary Agent (which acts as sponsor/guarantor) website:

Age	55 or older
Work	There is no plan to work in Indonesia
Life and Health Insurance	Insurance provider can be a company of your own choosing, although it must cover Indonesia
Home	Sign a lease agreement for 1 year
Maid	Hire a maid or a domestic helper
Funds	Your pension/deposit account requirement is $US 18,000 per year

There is also a requirement as per to the country of citizenship. For example, the Pakistani citizens have been added to the eligibility list only recently. The countries that are not eligible for a retirement visa are:

• Afghanistan
• Guinea
• Israel
• North Korea
• Cameroon
• Liberia
• Niger
• Nigeria
• Somalia

The citizens of the countries above may apply for a calling visa instead. If your home country is not listed above then you have no citizenship restriction, which means that you can move forward with processing a retirement visa.

 

[Digitarius]

In that case I will delete my response. Delete my response also jstar from your response

 

[snpark]

Yes I was also puzzled by the oxymoron of working on a retirement visa?!
The "income" obviously refers to a pension or interest on savings etc not remuneration for work

 

[Helpful Herbert]

• What do you fill in a form when you're asked about your occupation? e.g. In a hospital reception, etc.
• Can I pay tax even though I don't have a work permit? I assume when I pay it, I have to admit that I'm working for a foreign country, but won't be trouble if tax office doesn't recognize if it's legal?
• Since I'm working in a house, is the house considered as some sort of "working office"?

Is there anyone on a similar situation? Thanks.

Yes - I am in the same situation, and have been for a few years. I would answer as follows:
1) I never fill in that field, and no-one ever asks. Maybe you could write "others"?
2) Yes you can pay tax. You are not registered anywhere in the country in terms of work, so the tax office doesn't know about you and has no way to find out. You would therefore have to proactively go and find them and explain that you want to pay tax in Indonesia. I'm sure they will be delighted. I should do the same, but I'm not exactly sure where the tax office is in my area.
3) Considered by whom? If you're sitting at your computer watching youtube (I mean working) it doesn't change the status of the building from residential to commercial, if that is what you mean? If you have converted the front garden into a cafe and work there as a chef then that would be different, and you could have some official visits.

 

[jstar]

It's kind of funny that from a boutade this thread is evolving in a 'how to'....

 

[jnlito]

well, able to travel, relax and work occasionally is a romantic/ideal notion everyone dreams of, iznt it ?

It's kind of funny that from a boutade this thread is evolving in a 'how to'....

 

[Digitarius]

Interesting, I’m not registered anywhere in the country for work so why proactively seek them out? Is that so we will have a clear conscience ? I’m not sure I want to do that I owe the USA enough tax this year I don’t want to owe Indonesia too. ?

 

[mamaria]

So . Morally wrong . Or smart way to avoid tax?

Surely the Govt realizes how much money it is losing every year in lost tax revenue? Far more than they lose by upsetting some freeloaders who live in a kos and sit in Starbucks all day hogging the WiFi .

Sorry if this seems a silly question to you, but you look like the most knowledgeable here.

So my partner and I are from UK and we went to bali on holiday for a week last year, we fell in love with a place and been saving all year to be able to go again for 3-6 months this time. While looking for some info on visas I came across you rant, so my question is:

We both work freelance online (even here in UK) lets say someone pays me xx£ amount of money to take picture of their product and post on instagram and or YT- I pay my 25% tax here in UK for that income. And I do these kinda jobs during my holiday in bali...

Am I doing something offensive and illegal? Is it wrong to go somewhere for a week and come back for the visa again?

(oh lets say I go to starbucks to upload that picture as well)

 

[R Cameron]

@mamaria In short, it's totally fine.

Tell any official that you're on vacation, you are. If anyone asks if you are working, you say, "I might do some work for my job in the UK, but I'm not working here."

The easy visa options are 30 or 60 days. Many people make visa runs and some even return the same day. It won't be a problem for 3-6 months, especially if you spend several days in a different country before coming back (and why not, go explore a little!). Even better if you already have your next flight leaving Indonesia booked and can answer specifically the date you're next leaving and show evidence if asked.

 

[snpark]

Or organise a 6 month visa in advance

 

[mamaria]

Perfect - Thank you!

 

[vocalneal]

Exactly. We see the Govt even looking at Airbnb and loss of tax there . Soon I think will be these nomads will have nofreedom and noexcuse lol

Thai government is cracking down. Airbnb not paying taxes, not behaving the same as hotels. Taking business from registered hotels. Similar to Uber who they kicked out.

They/we have a thing called TM 30 wherein the owner of a premises has to report all foreign stayers to immigration. This is causing lots or umbrage here amongst expats as they, as owners, have to report themselves when they return home.