How do you guys invest?

[make_batik_great_again]

Regardless of where they are located I don't really understand why anybody would buy stocks in the Indonesian stock market.

If you look at the long-term performance (since 1999), the Indonesian stock market outperformed the S&P500.

 

[Balifrog]

If you look at the long-term performance (since 1999), the Indonesian stock market outperformed the S&P500.

Yes, but the value of IDR vs USD was cut in half over the last 10 years....

 

[make_batik_great_again]

That is true. But the outperformance of the Indonesian stock market is so huge that there is still an outperformance if you consider also the currency effect. The performance of the Indonesian stock market since 1999 has been 1,200% (despite the bad performance in the last weeks and months). S&P500 523%.

After currency effect the outperformance is only little but still: We compare it to the S&P500 here ;-)

 

[pantaiema]

If you look at the long-term performance (since 1999), the Indonesian stock market outperformed the S&P500.

Really? Did you convert the returns into a major currency such as the US$? Look at the chart below comparing the performance of the S&P 500 and IHSG (JSI)

That is true. But the outperformance of the Indonesian stock market is so huge that there is still an outperformance if you consider also the currency effect. The performance of the Indonesian stock market since 1999 has been 1,200% (despite the bad performance in the last weeks and months). S&P500 523%.

After currency effect the outperformance is only little but still: We compare it to the S&P500 here ;-)

Also beside comparing it in different currency; Another insensible comparison in here is that, you are comparing the developed market (US) with emerging market which Indonesia is currently in this category if it is not downgraded by MSCI in the future. Keep in mind the fundamental of investing, when the risk is much higher the investors will expect the much higher return to compensate the risk they are taking. A more sensible comparison is to compare IHSG performance with their peers other emerging market such as Korea, Taiwan

If you started investing US$100k in year around 2014 in IHSG (JSI), now 2026 you will be back to where you were (e.g US$100k).

 

[pantaiema]

Regardless of where they are located I don't really understand why anybody would buy stocks in the Indonesian stock market.

Because as of 21 October 2026, Indonesia is still classified as an emerging market by MSCI, and Indonesian companies remain part of the MSCI Emerging Markets Index. Therefore, when you invest in an index fund or ETF tracking this index, you already have some exposure to Indonesian equities, regardless of where you live or whether you want it or not.

 

[snpark]

Really? Did you convert the returns into a major currency such as the US$? Look at the chart below comparing the performance of the S&P 500 and IHSG (JSI)
View attachment 5831

Also beside comparing it in different currency; Another insensible comparison in here is that, you are comparing the developed market (US) with emerging market which Indonesia is currently in this category if it is not downgraded by MSCI in the future. Keep in mind the fundamental of investing, when the risk is much higher the investors will expect the much higher return to compensate the risk they are taking. A more sensible comparison is to compare IHSG performance with their peers other emerging market such as Korea, Taiwan

View attachment 5832

If you started investing US$100k in year around 2010 in IHSG, now 2026 you will be back to where you were (e.g US$100k).

You've already edited this post and hour later since you originally posted. God knows what you deleted or changed.

I supposed I will have to read it all again after you edited it again a few more times and see if I can spot what you changed.

In fact I've yet to find one of your posts that ISN'T edited sometimes hours and hours or even days later.

This is why I said before there should be a time limit or it should be clearer that a post has been fundamentally changed and even what was changed. Especially when you and Marcus get into a tit for tat posting YT and Wikipedia content then changing things after people have already commented on it.

But anyway I was fairly outvoted on my idea. So let me check back tomorrow on your facts about various S&P performance figures for 2003-2019 using the Fibiaci sequence method and excluding leap years and Presidential election months ;-)

 

[snpark]

I meant AN hour later not AND

First line.

 

[Pak Tani]

The longer the text...

...the less likely people are willing to read everything again to see if your edit was just a correction of a typo, an extra comma or an extra 6th or 7th paragraph to your already long epistle.

Look, not everyone wants to read through your long posts multiple times just to figure out what you’ve changed this time. So, if you want your edit to be more noticeable, you could include a note at the bottom of your post explaining what you’ve edited.

Edit: added a second paragraph

 

[pantaiema]

...the less likely people are willing to read everything again to see if your edit was just a correction of a typo, an extra comma or an extra 6th or 7th paragraph to your already long epistle.

Who is forcing anyone to read other people's posts on this forum, especially if they consider them a waste of time? Are you aware that there is an "Ignore" button?

Would you rather have people continue receiving misleading information, as in post #834?

Keep in mind that the forum is also read by others, and ensuring that the information shared is accurate is more important than debating time limits on editing posts. If a particular point is important enough to preserve, anyone is free to quote it and rebut it. That way, even if the original post is edited later, the quoted version remains available as evidence of what was originally stated.

 

[snpark]

...the less likely people are willing to read everything again to see if your edit was just a correction of a typo, an extra comma or an extra 6th or 7th paragraph to your already long epistle.

Look, not everyone wants to read through your long posts multiple times just to figure out what you’ve changed this time. So, if you want your edit to be more noticeable, you could include a note at the bottom of your post explaining what you’ve edited.

Edit: added a second paragraph

Exactly my point

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Really? Did you convert the returns into a major currency such as the US$? Look at the chart below comparing the performance of the S&P 500 and IHSG (JSI)
View attachment 5831

Also beside comparing it in different currency; Another insensible comparison in here is that, you are comparing the developed market (US) with emerging market which Indonesia is currently in this category if it is not downgraded by MSCI in the future. Keep in mind the fundamental of investing, when the risk is much higher the investors will expect the much higher return to compensate the risk they are taking. A more sensible comparison is to compare IHSG performance with their peers other emerging market such as Korea, Taiwan
View attachment 5832

If you started investing US$100k in year around 2014 in IHSG (JSI), now 2026 you will be back to where you were (e.g US$100k).

As mentioned before, long-term from 1999 until now the Indonesian stock market had a very impressing performance and outperformed the S&P500. A few days ago, I found a chart that I will post here also if I can find it again. And there is still an outperformance even if you consider the IDR/USD chart which is necessary, of course, because otherwise we would compare apples to oranges

Your other argument is correct: It would be wise to compare the Indonesian stock market to other emerging markets. I did not do that yet. But still, it is a very good performance if you look at the data from 1999 until now - even after the index fell in the past weeks and months. The S&P500 had a very good run from in the timeframe and many people would be happy if they invested into the S&P500 in that timeframe - but even that was outperformed by the Indonesian stock market. If it also outperformed all other Emerging Markets would be needed to analyzed seperately.

But no matter what: The statement which was made here before (that one user in this forum cannot understand how anyone would invest here) is, in my view, incomprehensible. The long-term performance is very good (as mentioned before: Even better than the S&P500). Besides, investing in EM is also wise because stocks from EM often balance out stock price fluctuations of stocks from countries like the US, UK etc. So, that would be also an argument to consider an investment into the Indonesian stock market (or other EM).

 

[snpark]

Who is forcing anyone to read other people's posts on this forum, especially if they consider them a waste of time? Are you aware that there is an "Ignore" button?

Would you rather have people continue receiving misleading information, as in post #834?

Keep in mind that the forum is also read by others, and ensuring that the information shared is accurate is more important than debating time limits on editing posts. If a particular point is important enough to preserve, anyone is free to quote it and rebut it. That way, even if the original post is edited later, the quoted version remains available as evidence of what was originally stated.

Look to be honest I'm sure your posts are very informative but when I see one of your long verbose posts with half a dozen YT posts and clearly copy pasted content which is clearly not your own then I just skip it and it seems to be only you and Marcus competing for that niche.

Plus the fact that every post has that lovely little bonus "edited 7 mins ago" and the original was posted the day before.

I'm honestly amazed how you have so much time to spare / waste on posting so much. And all that in your own words original content lol. You sure you not using AI ?

 

[make_batik_great_again]

I found the chart. I hope it's legible. Unfortunately, the resolution isn't very good. You can see a very clear outperformance. The currency depreciated by around 50% over that period, yet the outperformance remains. In addition, dividend yields in Indonesia were significantly higher during that time. Since both indices are price indices (meaning dividends are excluded from the index value), the outperformance is even greater when dividends are taken into account.

 

[snpark]

Waiting for someone to say hr is hari not hour lol

 

[El_Goretto]

Mod note:
@pantaiema I've deleted your post that continues a discussion from a closed thread. That thread was closed for a reason and not for you to revive it here. This serves also as a warning to stop the constant bickering and bringing posts from other threads. It is obvious that you and @snpark don't get along. I suggest you both stop, put each other on ignore. This is the last warning before ban comes down.

 

[pantaiema]

View attachment 5834

I found the chart. I hope it's legible. Unfortunately, the resolution isn't very good. You can see a very clear outperformance. The currency depreciated by around 50% over that period, yet the outperformance remains. In addition, dividend yields in Indonesia were significantly higher during that time. Since both indices are price indices (meaning dividends are excluded from the index value), the outperformance is even greater when dividends are taken into account.

From the chart above Währung (Currency): IDR !!!
Also if you double check the return from S&P 500 since 2009 from the graph above is showing 500% (?)

I just rechecked in USD this should be 1,126.47% with dividends reinvested .

S&P 500 Returns since 2009

$100 invested in the S&P 500 in 2009 would be worth about $1,226.47 in 2026 with dividends reinvested, a return of 15.17% per year, or 12.28% per year after inflation.

www.officialdata.org