Waste Management in Indonesia

[fastpitch17]

In my community back in the US they converted the power generating to burnable waste from coal. They pay a fraction of the cost for waste than they did for coal and they didn't have to bring it in via river barge. Had an eventual reduction in electricity cost while completely eliminating the land fill where a baseball diamond complex now resides. Every home received bin for the non burnable items that were sorted at a recycling center. Fees for trash pick up were eliminated from property taxes. The smoke from the coal burning was eliminated and the smoke from burning waste was eliminated by installing gas fired after burners in the smoke stacks. Trash is a given. How it is eliminated not so much here.

 

[marcus]

.... as someone is burning garbage at 6-7am, and the smell is horrible.

Why burn stuff when you already have a garbage collection service?...

My wife says some Indonesians believe that the smoke from burning (mainly leaves) is effective in keeping the area free of mosquitos .

From https://www.hukumonline.com/berita/a/akibat-hukum-membakar-sampah-sembarangan-lt6298602d7cc5b/
By Willa Wahyuni , June 2022

...The prohibition of burning garbage carelessly is stated in Law No. 18 of 2008 ...

...in the Regional Regulation of DKI Jakarta Province no.3 of 2013 , Article 126 paragraph e states that everyone is prohibited from burning waste that pollutes the environment. Then in Article 30 paragraph b it states fine of Rp500'000 for people who do not manage waste properly, such as throwing and burning waste carelessly ...

------------------------------------------

Specifically in West Java , unfortunately the 2010's Rp50 million fine or 3 months jail for burning was cancelled in 2016 .

PerDa West Java no.12 Year 2010
PROHIBITION
Article 49
(1) Everyone is prohibited from:
a. managing waste that causes environmental pollution and/or damage;
b. disposing of waste into the environment or not in a designated and/or provided place;
c. handling waste by open dumping at TPAS;
d. mixing hazardous and toxic industrial and hospital waste with waste;
e. importing waste; and/or
f. burning waste in an open space that does not comply with the technical requirements for waste management.

Article 57
(1) Anyone who violates the provisions as referred to in Article 49, shall be subjected to a maximum imprisonment of 3 months or a maximum fine of Rp50 million.

PerDa West Java no.1 Year 2016 (changes some parts of PerDa no.10 Year 2010)
Article 57
1) Any person who violates the provisions as referred to in Article 49 letter b, shall be subjected to a maximum imprisonment of 6 months or a maximum fine of Rp50 million.

 

[merahputih]

When people live in poverty and have to manage less than Rp. 50k per day to feed their family; they do have their own priority which is different than mine.

True.

We interact with people around us. They can see that we never burn our rubbish; instead fermented to compost; use it for our garden.
We pick-up plastic rubbish from our paddy field and our project - and show-of, from the street too.

Whether they listen or not is not important.
So many small things that we can do just to make us happy. Not always successful though; or the impact is almost nothing, but at least we are happy doing something regardless the result.

Very well said & done!

 

[merahputih]

Anyone found throwing rubbish on the ground, streams, rivers, and the Ocean, should be penalized!

Agree. But it might work only for some group of people. Imagine poor people that will choose jail over penalty. Or rich people that will just pay and do the same offense because they can. While the middle group is the smallest group from three (in Indonesia).

 

[pantaiema]

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https://indobalinews.pikiran-rakyat.com/environment/pr-889329686/suarakan-pengolahan-sampah-berbasis-sumber-putri-koster-sambangi-desa-madenan

Awareness of your own rubbish Education, rofl

To start with, most (if not all) households or at least one member of the family understand that they need to dispose of (or burn) their rubbish somehow; otherwise, it would rot and stink in their homes. The "not in my backyard" mentality is a natural human reaction when faced with problems.

Do people really need formal education to make people understand that it's cheaper, faster, and more efficient to leave their trash at the nearby collection point (if any available and regularly serviced) instead of dumping it in rivers or on roadsides miles away? Do you want money (by saving money) What kind of "education" is that?

Haven’t public awareness campaigns through TV ads and leaflets about the effect of damping your rubbish on the river been around for decades? So why do people still dump their rubbish irresponsibly?

Let’s not forget that several local authorities have admitted there aren’t enough waste processing facilities or regularly maintained collection points and they will try to address that, when they have been confronted in the public. Do not people still see the pile up of rubbish left uncollected in many places, especially in the public markets. This examples are recent and just a few of a many examplea.

"West Java Governor Dedi Mulyadi inspected Gedebage Market in Bandung accompanied by Bandung Mayor Farhan on Monday (28/4).He reprimanded the relevant parties who should be responsible for managing waste in Gedebage Market. He also said he would report the head of the Association who should manage the waste and meet the traders.The traders explained that they were charged a waste management fee of Rp5,000.00 per day. Dedi did a rough calculation that the total contribution they pay per year could reach 1.2 billion rupiahs."


Ciputat Market Garbage Mountains Cause problem, Thousands of Maggots Fill the market.

So, IMO the issue isn’t just about educating the public. Education alone won’t work if the infrastructure is lacking and deeper systemic problems are ignored. Focusing solely on education often just shifts the blame away from the real issues. This is actually local governments and politicians are good at, because they know diverting the issue to educating people, take ages (and money) and they might have been promoted before the indicators and the result could be assessed. And hey where does the tourist levy they have been collecting for almost one year by now go ??

To me, this is just another blame game. It's absurd to preach education when the basic infrastructure isn’t even there. The funds meant for essential services often get misused or redirected into high-cost projects like the multi-billion dollar subway and rail project in Bali (post #99):

Foreign visitors MUST be accompanied by licensed local tour guides

Education systems in the West are going downhill.... France is a good example. https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/french-schools-falling-further-behind-shows-major-new-study/591605 https://www.sundialpress.co/2024/04/18/the-french-education-system-a-toxic-relationship-we-cant-get-out-of/...

www.expatindo.org

Just imagine how many waste processing centres and collection points could have been built with that money needed to built Balinese subway/rail project and the money collected from tourist levy; if it is used responsibly ?

 

[harryopal1]

Many politicians and community leaders are focussed on what makes them look good. For the ultimate decision maker his legacy might be to say, "Yes, the subway/ rail project is my achievement." Or will he or she go for, "During my time I built 50 rubbish processing centres."

 

[pantaiema]

Many politicians and community leaders are focussed on what makes them look good. For the ultimate decision maker his legacy might be to say, "Yes, the subway/ rail project is my achievement." Or will he or she go for, "During my time I built 50 rubbish processing centres."

I completely agree with that the politician prefer to do the project that leave their legacies.

However, based on the discussion in this thread and also in another one here: https://www.expatindo.org/community...ied-by-licensed-local-tour-guides.7979/page-5

It appears that some people believe that since they pay for rubbish collection services and their waste is picked up regularly, those who dump trash in rivers or along roadsides must be uneducated and therefore need to be educated. What I could say here, just wait until they stop collecting your rubbish because the waste processing centre is full, or you have not paid enough for 'ogoh ogoh money' (more Rp1m+). So it isn't just about the legacy of the politicians, but it seems some people still see that there are already sufficient rubbish processing centres, rubbish collection services.

There's a belief that it’s more worthwhile to invest in educating people rather than adding waste processing centre, rubbish collection points to prevent people dumping their rubbish in the river, by the roadside, or burning their rubbish.

But it makes me question: what kind of education are we talking about here? Do people need to be told that dumping your rubbish in the nearby collection point (if any available and regularly serviced) will save you money (in term of fuel, time, etc) instead of dumping it in rivers or on roadsides miles away from your home? And what exactly hasn’t been taught over the past few decades?

I personally think those who are dumping their rubbish in the river, by the roadside are smart people as they will need to do that in a smart way to avoid getting caught.

 

[Shadrach]

I completely agree with that the politician prefer to do the project that leave their legacies.

However, based on the discussion in this thread and also in another one here: https://www.expatindo.org/community...ied-by-licensed-local-tour-guides.7979/page-5

It appears that some people believe that since they pay for rubbish collection services and their waste is picked up regularly, those who dump trash in rivers or along roadsides must be uneducated and therefore need to be educated. So it isn't just about the legacy of the politicians, but it seems some people still see that there are already sufficient rubbish processing centres, rubbish collection services.

There's a belief that it’s more worthwhile to invest in educating people rather than adding waste processing centre, rubbish collection points to prevent people dumping their rubbish in the river, by the roadside, or burning their rubbish.

But it makes me question: what kind of education are we talking about here? Do people need to be told that dumping your rubbish in the nearby collection point (if any available and regularly serviced) will save you money (in term of fuel, time, etc) instead of dumping it in rivers or on roadsides miles away from your home? And what exactly hasn’t been taught over the past few decades?

I personally think those who are dumping their rubbish in the river, by the roadside are smart people as they will need to do that in a smart way to avoid getting caught.

You don't make any sense at All? Evryone should be aware of the problem! They already know, but many are lazy, don't give a shite, or are just Greedy and keep the collection money! And don't care about keeping Bali Clean! Dumping your rubbish in the River and not getting caught, is as Smart as a child stealing a cookie from the cookie jar! You call that Smart? I call it ignorant and selfish!
this is not about leaving your legacy, or building this or that. It is about taking care of this Island no matter the cost? This island is only one small speck in a vast Ocean, that has rubbish so thick in some places, it is becoming am island of Rubbish as Big as Bali!
I said this before. The only solution is to Stop using Petrochemicals and Oil to make Plastic! The People must Force the Governments to Force the Factories to use only Biodegradable material. Such as vegetable oils, coconut oil, seaweed, or come up with something all together New!
It's So tiring to keep talking and getting No Where! Like Politics, Wars, and Bad Presidents! The People can not wait any longer! We Must Make The Changes Now!!!

 

[pantaiema]

You don't make any sense at All? Evryone should be aware of the problem! They already know, but many are lazy, don't give a shite, or are just Greedy and keep the collection money! And don't care about keeping Bali Clean! Dumping your rubbish in the River and not getting caught, is as Smart as a child stealing a cookie from the cookie jar! You call that Smart? I call it ignorant and selfish!
this is not about leaving your legacy, or building this or that. It is about taking care of this Island no matter the cost? This island is only one small speck in a vast Ocean, that has rubbish so thick in some places, it is becoming am island of Rubbish as Big as Bali!
I said this before. The only solution is to Stop using Petrochemicals and Oil to make Plastic! The People must Force the Governments to Force the Factories to use only Biodegradable material. Such as vegetable oils, coconut oil, seaweed, or come up with something all together New!
It's So tiring to keep talking and getting No Where! Like Politics, Wars, and Bad Presidents! The People can not wait any longer! We Must Make The Changes Now!!!

Well at least it triggers people reaction, and I am expecting that. Will continue the discussion as long as it remains civilised. If the people do not like to see the pile up of rubbish in the rivers, by the roadside they are passing everyday, I get that. The people might try to make awareness the lack of waste processing centre, add rubbish collection services and see the result.

And now, let's have a serious discussion about a wider issue about the importance of using only biodegradable material. This is a matter of sustainability which is not just about environment, saving energy, renewable energy, etc. Sustainability is built on three key pillars, often referred to as the 3Es: Environment, Economy, and Equity (meaning fairness for people and communities). It is meant to support the 3Ps: People, Planet (our shared Earth), and Prosperity (or Profit). These frameworks are widely recognised by experts and endorsed by the United Nations. If even one of these elements is missing, true sustainability cannot be achieved.

When you urge people to adopt biodegradable materials or install solar panels, PV systems (e.g Environment)), but more affordable alternatives with much cheaper price (e.g Economy) are available for people (e.g Equity fairness for people and communities) who still struggle with their basic needs (foods, shelters, etc) what do you think the majority of people in this situation will choose to do? In this case you have one pillar is missing (e.g Economy). Simply asking people, everyone especially those who are still struggling with basic needs to do that will not be sustainable.

Similarly, if the local council refuses to collect a household’s rubbish simply because they haven’t paid enough "ogoh-ogoh money" (example in the previous post), what realistic alternatives are people left with? If you found yourself in that situation, what would you do? Do you have any suggestions?

I understand that some people may see them as thieves or environmental offenders and in some cases, that’s true. But if the authorities are either unable to catch them or unwilling to intervene afraid of being exposed to public for not doing their job providing enough rubbish collection services, labelling them won’t change their actions. Meaningful change is unlikely unless the underlying issues such as the absence of regularly maintained and conveniently located waste collection points are resolved. For those dumping rubbish into the river in industrial scale, would they still do it if a processing centre were available closer than the river itself are willing to accept their rubbish?

 

[Shadrach]

Well at least it triggers people reaction, and I am expecting that. Will continue the discussion as long as it remains civilised. If the people do not like to see the pile up of rubbish in the rivers, by the roadside they are passing everyday, I get that. The people might try to make awareness the lack of waste processing centre, add rubbish collection services and see the result.

And now, let's have a serious discussion about a wider issue about the importance of using only biodegradable material. This is a matter of sustainability which is not just about environment, saving energy, renewable energy, etc. Sustainability is built on three key pillars, often referred to as the 3Es: Environment, Economy, and Equity (meaning fairness for people and communities). It is meant to support the 3Ps: People, Planet (our shared Earth), and Prosperity (or Profit). These frameworks are widely recognised by experts and endorsed by the United Nations. If even one of these elements is missing, true sustainability cannot be achieved.

When you urge people to adopt biodegradable materials or install solar panels, PV systems (e.g Environment)), but more affordable alternatives with much cheaper price (e.g Economy) are available for people (e.g Equity fairness for people and communities) who still struggle with their basic needs (foods, shelters, etc) what do you think the majority of people in this situation will choose to do? In this case you have one pillar is missing (e.g Economy). Simply asking people, everyone especially those who are still struggling with basic needs to do that will not be sustainable.

Similarly, if the local council refuses to collect a household’s rubbish simply because they haven’t paid enough "ogoh-ogoh money" (example in the previous post), what realistic alternatives are people left with? If you found yourself in that situation, what would you do? Do you have any suggestions?

I understand that some people may see them as thieves or environmental offenders and in some cases, that’s true. But if the authorities are either unable to catch them or unwilling to intervene afraid of being exposed to public for not doing their job providing enough rubbish collection services, labelling them won’t change their actions. Meaningful change is unlikely unless the underlying issues such as the absence of regularly maintained and conveniently located waste collection points are resolved. For those dumping rubbish into the river in industrial scale, would they still do it if a processing centre were available closer than the river itself are willing to accept their rubbish?

You are losing the message with all of this word salad? Dealing with rubbish should Not be a For Profit situation! it is an act of being respectful and caring about the Planet, and Future Generations! As for Would those People dumping Rubbish into the River take it to a processing center? Maybe, if they gave a damn about The River! Who know's, maybe these People were already paid to do this, and they pocketed the Money, instead of paying to have it processed? Did you see in the Video, how the Man was always looking over his Shoulder to see if anyone was coming, and seeing him do this? He knew it was Wrong! and was dumping as fast as he could. That is not Smart! It is Deceitful. He's a Scumbag!
This responsibility is the Governments job! They are supposed to be looking out for the betterment of the Land, and The People! This is not a For Profit issue. It is an issue of sustainability! Before all of this Plastic even reaches the People, it should already be a Non issue of Biodegradability! Then this would Not be a an issue of who can afford to deal with it after it becomes Rubbish!

 

[Balifrog]

You are losing the message with all of this word salad? Dealing with rubbish should Not be a For Profit situation! it is an act of being respectful and caring about the Planet, and Future Generations! As for Would those People dumping Rubbish into the River take it to a processing center? Maybe, if they gave a damn about The River! Who know's, maybe these People were already paid to do this, and they pocketed the Money, instead of paying to have it processed? Did you see in the Video, how the Man was always looking over his Shoulder to see if anyone was coming, and seeing him do this? He knew it was Wrong! and was dumping as fast as he could. That is not Smart! It is Deceitful. He's a Scumbag!
This responsibility is the Governments job! They are supposed to be looking out for the betterment of the Land, and The People! This is not a For Profit issue. It is an issue of sustainability! Before all of this Plastic even reaches the People, it should already be a Non issue of Biodegradability! Then this would Not be a an issue of who can afford to deal with it after it becomes Rubbish!

Stop taking them mushrooms......

 

[Shadrach]

Stop taking them mushrooms......

I'm not taking any mushrooms! I just care about this problem. Do you? What do feel when you walk along the beach and see it covered in Plastic Rubbish? What do yo think when you hear of Sea Turtles dying after eating plastic bags thinking it was a jellyfish? And when you see a whale that is so caught up in Plastic Nets that it can't swim or gather food anymore?
Are we supposed to just be quiet, and say nothing? Is this what you mean when you suggest, I have to be High to give a Damn? Come on Frenchy, instead of making it into a Joke, GIVE Us your words of Wisdom?

 

[Hawk256]

I'm not taking any mushrooms! I just care about this problem. Do you? What do feel when you walk along the beach and see it covered in Plastic Rubbish?

We were doing just fine with bio degradable paper bags until someone decided that we needed to save the trees.

 

[Shadrach]

We were doing just fine with bio degradable paper bags until someone decided that we needed to save the trees.

Your Right! But it's not as simple as that! I remember those days when You had a choice of different sizes for different needs, Actually when you buy mushrooms, it is better to put them in paper to bring home! I recycled my Paper bags, Glass bottles, and reused them many times. Deforestation is a serious problem, and that did need to be addressed, I saw a lot of the timber being cut in the Western US was being exported to foreign lands to make Profit!
There was also a huge push by the Petrochemical corporations to make Fortunes off of creating almost Everything from Petrochemicals, and Plastics. Paper could be made from many different fibers than from Trees. Wheat straw, rich husks, seaweed, etc, and Plastics could be made from materials other than Oil.
Everything in this world became more complicated with more and more Humans being born. So, Now is the time to come up with solutions for these problems, without Greed and Profit being such an Obstacle!

 

[pantaiema]

You are losing the message with all of this word salad? Dealing with rubbish should Not be a For Profit situation! it is an act of being respectful and caring about the Planet, and Future Generations! As for Would those People dumping Rubbish into the River take it to a processing center? Maybe, if they gave a damn about The River! Who know's, maybe these People were already paid to do this, and they pocketed the Money, instead of paying to have it processed? Did you see in the Video, how the Man was always looking over his Shoulder to see if anyone was coming, and seeing him do this? He knew it was Wrong! and was dumping as fast as he could. That is not Smart! It is Deceitful. He's a Scumbag!
This responsibility is the Governments job! They are supposed to be looking out for the betterment of the Land, and The People! This is not a For Profit issue. It is an issue of sustainability! Before all of this Plastic even reaches the People, it should already be a Non issue of Biodegradability! Then this would Not be a an issue of who can afford to deal with it after it becomes Rubbish!

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, the three pillars model of sustainability, often referred to as the 3Es (Economy, Environment, Equity/Social) intended for the 3Ps (People, Planet, Prosperity) is not merely my personal viewpoint. It is a framework that has been widely recognised and endorsed by experts, the United Nations, and other major global institutions. It is better to believe the experts opinion and global institution who deal with this issue every single day rather than the opinion derived from random people pretending to be an expert. Just because a person is very vocal on his view point does not make him an expert.

This model has also been adopted by the World Bank as a foundation for addressing poverty, tackling global environmental challenges, and promoting sustainable development. It would be insensible to disregard the views of organisations and experts who have devoted their lives to studying, understanding, and addressing these complex issues, in favour of opinions from random internet users pretending to be experts.

Those who pretend to be an expert in environment, sustainable development and think they know better than experts employed by the UN, World Bank, they are probably best described by the person in this video clip (In Indonesian)

This person is self-proclaiming himself to be very rich. When asked about his wealth :
What is your assets ? Pile up of Cash and 5 cars including sport cars. Two cars are donated to my domestic helpers.
What about your cash? I put it in the bags and weighted them, it weights about 5 tons.
Where did you work ? In psychiatric hospital
Are you a doctor ? No
So what are you doing then ? I am a patient

Note: The illustration above is not directed at anyone in this forum. It simply represents how some people might react when they encounter someone who claims to be an expert without any credentials or proven track.

 

[pantaiema]

We were doing just fine with bio degradable paper bags until someone decided that we needed to save the trees.

Typically in any cost related to grocery the vendors just add the price to the price of the items. So the consumers, people will pay for it. So for people who still struggle with what to eat today. Any proposal which just address the environment without thinking other people will not be sustainable.

Just wait until these people can not effort it and start looting. Or people start doing disruptive things as they do not want to pay a more expensive items for doing the same thing. A good example is people throwing rubbish in the river, as it costs them more money to take it to waste processing centre which might be in the neighbouring city.

 

[Balifrog]

I'm not taking any mushrooms! I just care about this problem. Do you? What do feel when you walk along the beach and see it covered in Plastic Rubbish? What do yo think when you hear of Sea Turtles dying after eating plastic bags thinking it was a jellyfish? And when you see a whale that is so caught up in Plastic Nets that it can't swim or gather food anymore?
Are we supposed to just be quiet, and say nothing? Is this what you mean when you suggest, I have to be High to give a Damn? Come on Frenchy, instead of making it into a Joke, GIVE Us your words of Wisdom?

It's their country.
Not my problem ! And it's not a bunch of sensitive bule that are going to change anything here !

 

[Shadrach]

It's their country.
Not my problem ! And it's not a bunch of sensitive bule that are going to change anything here.

It's Everyones Problem Worldwide!

 

[pantaiema]

It's Everyones Problem Worldwide!

And who do you think the UN and the World Bank truly represent?
Their view on sustainable development also reflects this alignment.
" ... is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs"

Keep in mind Sustainable development is more than just about saving environment, saving energy which seems the only element that you think need to be taken care. It's about finding a balance between economic growth, social progress, and environmental protection to ensure the planet is habitable and provide resources enough for everyone, now and in the future.

 

[Bob]

Typically in any cost related to grocery the vendors just add the price to the price of the items. So the consumers, people will pay for it. So for people who still struggle with what to eat today. Any proposal which just address the environment without thinking other people will not be sustainable.

Just wait until these people can not effort it and start looting. Or people start doing disruptive things as they do not want to pay a more expensive items for doing the same thing. A good example is people throwing rubbish in the river, as it costs them more money to take it to waste processing centre which might be in the neighbouring city.

Huh? What would the looting be over again? The cost of a bag?