Motorcycle Journeys

[Balilongtime]

I totally agree with ScooterIndo. My experience was that an automatic scooter was superior in almost all situations. Riding is Indonesia is awkward, a bigger bike isn't really agile enough to pass a truck going up a hill via the crappily paved shoulder.

This comment to me indicates a total beginners level of riding ability , and the second part of doesn't even make logical sense .., but i am happy you feel superior all the same

 

[Balilongtime]

And west java is full of mountain: 250cc would still be better than a 125cc scooter

Anyway, in any case, the vehicle that you feel the most comfortable and the most at ease would be your best pick in any time.
Going on a long road on a bike you are not at ease with would not be of any agreement and can make you hate your journey despite all the plus your choice was supposedly have.

Me at at ease with a full size motorcycle (600cc+), but I find them too big and too heavy for being enjoyable for daily driving in Indonesian road condition.
I had good time on my 225cc and would not see the need to have a lot more of power...
If I had to go back to Indonesia I would choose a bike on the like of the 2 I mentioned previously (MT250 - Z250).

Again... its all a matter of taste and on which bike you feel at ease.

Im still waiting for my 10 year old scorpio to retire , but still going strong as like new (modded better rar shockm and with 17 inch wheels and wider sticky bridgestone tires and rear disc)
.., but if I was to upgrade , it would still be the Kawasaki KLX 250 Dtracker (supermoto type) but id have to get the aftermarket sargent comfort seat so that skinny stock seat didnt ride up yer butt. To me its still the best bank for the buck with parts availability

Ive 'borrowed' friends scooters occasionally (all types) for a run to the shops etc , and to me they all feel too ricketty, and feeble to me .., scary even, and I feel every speck of gravel rattling up through the skinny forks and handlebars through to your bones and teeth. Id dread having to do any type of emergency braking maneuvers on those things with your legs in that unstable scooter position , and those little skinny wheels going over gravel or pot holes no thanks .

I have also ridden quite a few KLX 150's including modded ones , but also to me they feel like a kiddies bike, with the only advantage being more stable to ride than a scoot, and higher ground clearance (for trails- or gutters / footpaths haha)

Fair enough I get the point about what a scooters is for .., but I have never once met a motorcycle rider 150 - 250 cc straddle type (in indonesia) who would give up their ride to go back to riding a scooter.

As for automatic scooters being used as an excuse as an advantage for a bike .., I dont get this statement either unless its coming from an absolute beginner rider (not to be condescending) - as manual gears on a bike (especially used with a manual clutch) IS WHERE half the stability and control of a bike comes from (the other half comes from the combined mass + bigger wheels/tires + legs straddling over that centred mass)

 

[CaturMuka]

This comment to me indicates a total beginners level of riding ability , and the second part of doesn't even make logical sense .., but i am happy you feel superior all the same

Can you re-read my statement and note the position of the word "superior"? I'm not sure why you felt the need to get pissy.

The second part isn't the clearest sentence I've ever written but I'm talking about overtaking a truck that's going up hill and doing it on the left hand shoulder (that are usually in poor condition). Usually I'll do this when the traffic coming the other way is heavy or the road has too many blind corners to overtake normally. Bigger wheels do not help you in this situation. Are you saying that larger bikes are just as agile as [EDIT - smaller not bigger] smaller bikes?

Some of your other comments seem nonsensical to me. Almost everyday I squeeze through spots in traffic where I'll have nothing but a centimetre free on each side. A smaller bike will always allow you to get through more tight squeezes than a larger one. How could you possibly argue otherwise?

I agree with one of your other comments that a lot of the smaller automatic scooters feel too light and rickety, but there's lots of automatics that have a bit more heft to them.

You're writing as if you're in a motorbike forum. The gap between an "absolute beginner" to "bike nut" is wider than what your comments reflect.

 

[Puspawarna]

Are you saying that larger bikes are just as agile as bigger bikes?

Psst...is that what you meant to say?

 

[Scooterindo]

..,and what levels may they be ?

.., so apart from Jakarta toll roads, AFAIK there is no restriction on bikes using them, especially in Bali .
As for the rest of my bike comment and your opinion they are wrong on 'so many levels' - to me that sounds like just your opinion , as I have mine , please explain ?

.., Before living in Indonesia full time, I did rent scooters for months and months at a time for well over a 10 years period with the latter part finally settling on the Yamaha Jupiters over the auto scooters , ie; until I finally made the full time move here and then I purchased a Yamaha Scorpio 225cc ..., That was 10 years ago now that Ive been riding that 225cc Scorpio full time ever since.

Not once ever - have I ever felt, nor been disadvantaged due it its larger size over a scooter, but I have been 'advantaged millions of times over and over by the added power. I can guarantee It will go anywhere a scooter can 'and more' , plus do it more safety and with more control due to its taller seating position and better handling and stability.

Also faster YES .., but not from sheer speed (although it much faster than a scooter) , but faster as in your overall journey and comfort from doing that quick overtake , and spotting and getting through the gaps with a quick throttle twist being the difference where a scooter just cannot compete - that leaves all the scooters still stuck in the pack and struggling not to rub handlebars with each other .

I still stand by my original comment 100% even without bringing up those hills and mountainous roads or the extra load carrying capacity (whether it be surfboards, Travel bags, Givi Boxes, panniers , groceries or rear passengers)

My original post written on the preconception of the OPs description of a " Motorbike" being a proper bike as in 600cc or above, however the points raised in the defense of your 225 machine are (in retrospect) valid on all levels due to its light weight small frame, and yet powerful 225 engine giving it an excellent power to weight ratio which is ideal for the planned journey around Java on those shit B roads. However to say there are no restrictions on bikes using the toll roads in Bali isn't really accurate is it ?? When I first heard that bikes would be allowed on the toll road I was ecstatic as I would have a safe road to get my Vespa up to its top speed safely. Imagine the disappointment when I discovered that the bikes were relegated to a shit 2 metre wide lane at the side of the main toll road.

On a side note what's the standard BHP rating on the Yamaha Scorpio ??

 

[Balilongtime]

Can you re-read my statement and note the position of the word "superior"? I'm not sure why you felt the need to get pissy.

The second part isn't the clearest sentence I've ever written but I'm talking about overtaking a truck that's going up hill and doing it on the left hand shoulder (that are usually in poor condition). Usually I'll do this when the traffic coming the other way is heavy or the road has too many blind corners to overtake normally. Bigger wheels do not help you in this situation. Are you saying that larger bikes are just as agile as bigger bikes?

Some of your other comments seem nonsensical to me. Almost everyday I squeeze through spots in traffic where I'll have nothing but a centimetre free on each side. A smaller bike will always allow you to get through more tight squeezes than a larger one. How could you possibly argue otherwise?

I agree with one of your other comments that a lot of the smaller automatic scooters feel too light and rickety, but there's lots of automatics that have a bit more heft to them.

You're writing as if you're in a motorbike forum. The gap between an "absolute beginner" to "bike nut" is wider than what your comments reflect.

Not getting pissy at all , just making conversation,

but Im sorry regarding your comments , it's not a bike forum , but I know the more you comment the more of an absolute inexperienced beginner rider you must be , and thats nothing to be ashamed about , but knowing that and you say you spot gaps with 1 centimetre of clearence , then thats either beyond foolish, or you're naive to the ever present dangers and oblivious to the hidden ones, or your on a death wish, which I hope for you it never ever comes to that.

To me even this (your) last post about the truck still doesnt make logical sense either .Let me be clear from a long time riders perspective..,

My 225 cc bike goes anywhere in the city traffic a scooter can go period. Your talking about an inch and a half of handlebar width and your talking that up as if its a yards difference. As a matter of fact if squeezing though a tight gap that matters so much that handlebar width is a concern - then thats a a foolish maneuver that should never be attempted, and if it was , then the larger engine size would get that risky maneuver completed much quicker compare to a scooter where the extended time delay (ie;1-3 seconds longer is a huge difference) increases the chance of that gap fatally closing up on you (literally).
Also should you cop a nudge , then the larger bike due to it's mass would have more chance of staying upright leaving the scooter to come off 2nd best, and even the seating position on the larger bike lend to better balance vs the scooter should an awkward emergency braking maneuver ever present itself unexpectedly, where as scooters are top heavy and a nonstable seating position with legs in front would likely see the rider topple over in comparison.

As for tire size , there is not a single situation where a smaller tire makes any advantage whatsoever, nor safer performance wise (ie;skinny small scooter wheel vs 17inch and up wheel with fatter tires) .
The bottom line is those skinny scooter wheels get swallowed up in pothole more easy , or loose grip and skid much more easy than the bigger tire due to the footprint size , it's basic science ?

.., and on the bigger bike the better brakes and suspension (eg;250cc) are more forgiving to smooth out that bad unexpected situation , which could be the difference of staying upright (and getting a scare).., or totally losing it as you go for a slide on the bitumen and end up under a truck.
Over and Out .

 

[jstar]

As for tire size , there is not a single situation where a smaller tire makes any advantage whatsoever, nor safer performance wise (ie;skinny small scooter wheel vs 17inch and up wheel with fatter tires) .

It's an old wives' tale that a wider tire would offer advantages as more grip (with more rubber on the road) or less wear and be longer lasting. On the contrary, a wider tire negatively affects the steering characteristics. It can absorb some more heat, but that's only relevant in racing.

NB: I do realize you were mainly thinking of the wheel (rim) size.

 

[Balilongtime]

My original post written on the preconception of the OPs description of a " Motorbike" being a proper bike as in 600cc or above, however the points raised in the defense of your 225 machine are (in retrospect) valid on all levels due to its light weight small frame, and yet powerful 225 engine giving it an excellent power to weight ratio which is ideal for the planned journey around Java on those shit B roads. However to say there are no restrictions on bikes using the toll roads in Bali isn't really accurate is it ?? When I first heard that bikes would be allowed on the toll road I was ecstatic as I would have a safe road to get my Vespa up to its top speed safely. Imagine the disappointment when I discovered that the bikes were relegated to a shit 2 metre wide lane at the side of the main toll road.

On a side note what's the standard BHP rating on the Yamaha Scorpio ??

bigger than 600cc, yes that would be overkill . except I do love those new Ducati scramblers though for their light weight and all the good quality bits but at a no-frills design , and good safety features to like the ABS and top shelf Brembo brakes. For an 800cc bike - their size is actually slightly smaller than my scorpio and the weight is about the same - awesome .., but price is way beyond ridiculous.

One thing I notice when riding a bigger bike (even a 250) is many people actually make more way for you on the road than if you were on a scooter.

I agree with the toll road, but that skinny lane is still a godsend. That whole road though (even in a car) is a very rough and bouncy wide, and certainly not made for speed. My only real complaint though is they didnt make an exit at JL Uluwatu ie; at Jibaran near KFC & Macdonalds, plus they need flyovers in all directions at the airport/bypass roundabout.

RE BHP; this is the closest stats I can find ;
Specifications New Yamaha Scorpio Z

• Engine type: 4 Step, 2 Valve SOHC, Air Cooled
• Number / Position Cylinders: Single Cylinder / Vertical
• Cylinder Volume: 223 cc
• Bore x Stroke: 70.0 x 58.0 mm
• Compression Ratio: 9.5: 1
• Maximum power: 13.4 kW / 8000 rpm
• Maximum Torque: 17.5 Nm / 6500 rpm
• Starter System: Electric Starter and Kick Starter
• Lubrication System: Wet
• Engine Oil Capacity: Total: 1.4 Liter / Replacement Periodical: 1.2 Liter
• Fuel system: Carburetor BS30 x 1
• Clutch Type: Wet, Manual Clutch, Multiplat
• Transmission type: Return, 5 Speed
• Transmission Operation Pattern: 1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
• Frame Type: Double Cradle
• Suspension Front: Telescopic
• Rear Suspension: Swing Arm, Suspension Monocross
• Tires Front: 80/100-18M/C 47P
• Rear Tires: 56P 100/90-18M/C
• Brakes Front: Disc
• Rear Brakes: Tromol
• P x L x H: 2030 mm x 750 mm x 1095 mm
• Axis Wheels distance: 1295 mm
• Distance Lowest to Land: 165 mm
• Seat Height: 770 mm
• Fill Weight: 142 kg
• Fuel Tank Capacity: Total: 13 Liter, Reserves: 2.5 Liter
• Ignition system: CDI
• Battery: GM7B-4B, YB7-B (12V 7Ah)
• Busi: D8EA -9 (NGK)

Yamaha Scorpio Z Price

• Yamaha Scorpio Z : 24.150.000 IDR
• Yamaha Scorpio Z Special Edition: 25.000.000 IDR

Its an easy bike to mod , and stock it still leaves a tiger in its dust . It is surely nothing fancy and it still has it's 20 year old technology but it has really proven reliable over all those years and solid like a farm tractor . It's about 20kg lighter than the 200cc Tiger , and also has a turning circle that is almost half of the tigers turning circle making it really nimble.

Handling also was improved greatly by swapping the 18"wheels with lighter 17"alloys and fat stick bridgestone tires. I did this because you cant buy decent tires anymore for the stock odd size 18"rims . The 17"wheels I bought are the exact same specks as a Kawasaki Ninja, and this works good for the scorpio, as scorpio and ninja share the same wheel base dimensions . I also have a rear disc and 320mm front aftermarket disc.

I also shed of a further 15kg by removing the bulky centre stand, and swapping out the clunky stock exhaust and manifold pipe with a lightweight racing exhaust . This was complemented with an increased air intake , and larger main jet in the carby. I also replaced the rear shock for an adjustable aftermarket shock. The Stock gearing is a good size choice , still lots of zappy instant pickup available on tap when going in the 80-100kph range (and less) Plenty of vibration though from the single cylinder can be annoying if your used to a twin, but a good padded seat and foam handgrips ease it up a fit making it more bearable . There are lots of bikes available these days , When I bought mine (10 years ago) it was that or a tiger , and next step down was a Satria(bebek)which has a great little motor and is available in a full manual but was too uncomfortably small for me . The Scorpio still the best bang for the buck IMO as a cheap workhorse and parts are rarely required and when they are they are half the price of tiger parts . My next bike though will be a KLX250 dtracker (3.5 X more exy), but who knows that may be in another 10 years , as the scorpio still rides like new ?

 

[CaturMuka]

Psst...is that what you meant to say?

Aduh. Hoisted on my own leotard . . . as no-one says.

 

[CaturMuka]

. . . and you say you spot gaps with 1 centimetre of clearence , then thats either beyond foolish, or you're naive to the ever present dangers and oblivious to the hidden ones, or your on a death wish, which I hope for you it never ever comes to that.

Seriously? You couldn't think of any situation where you'd need to squeeze past traffic other than at high speed? Has "macet-macet" taught you nothing?

To me even this (your) last post about the truck still doesnt make logical sense either.

Try reading it again. It's perfectly clear.

Your talking about an inch and a half of handlebar width and your talking that up as if its a yards difference.

No. I'm saying that a thinner, smaller, lighter bike is better for maneuvering through built up traffic. I don't know the specs of your 225cc bike, so if it's no different in width to the average scooter then that's obviously not going to be a problem.

As for tire size , there is not a single situation where a smaller tire makes any advantage whatsoever.

Maneuverability? Even this "absolute inexperienced beginner rider" knew that.

My point is that an automatic scooter will serve you better most of the time in Indonesia. Not all of the time. If you can only choose one, you're better off with an automatic scooter.

In my opinion, it's the awkwardness of having to deal with gear changes that's the most persuasive argument. That's a no brainer in macet-macet traffic. On Indonesian roads you're always going to have that moment where you're changing gears, hit an unexpected pothole and need to accelerate out of sticky situation, all at the same time. You can only really remove the need to change gears in that equation. The other two are constant.

 

[Puspawarna]

Kind of an aside, but on a general interest forum that I post on (where topics like tipping, declawing cats, and whether or not to have children cause frequent vicious fights), someone posed the question: "so what topics are always controversial on other forums you know about?

Another poster answered that motorcycle forums are always full of spirited debates. I'm ready to believe that now.

 

[Balilongtime]

In my opinion, it's the awkwardness of having to deal with gear changes that's the most persuasive argument.

No more please , you have absolutely no idea about riding motorcycles, but at least you admit it
Your Honour ..., I rest my case

 

[jstar]

With a one cylinder engine, it is much more important to select the 'right' gear than in the bigger blocks. So yes, esp. in tricky situations it can be a distraction. And after the first rain even outright risky. (Rubber on the road.)

In our home countries, how many people really 'drive' a motorcycle? Really? By that I mean that no way in hell I would take the Kawa out when there was 2 inches of snow or after some 'wet frost'. So in fact everybody was a seasonal driver. That leads to quite some accidents every spring.

 

[Bad_azz]

On a completely different note & back on topic...
Joko will be in da house later.

 

[Joko]

Ahem... I have driven over 1500 km through West and Central Java over the last 10 days, and I'm here to tell you... the Vario 125 scooter I've borrowed has been well up to the task. Sure, there's been times when I'm going up a long hill that I've wished I could at least downshift. Yeah, when I'm zooming along a straightaway at 80 kmh and some guy on a real motorcycle flies by me like I'm not even there, in those instances, having something bigger has been something I've wished for. That said, I've passed dozens of motorcyclists on much bigger bikes who are afraid to go around that bus on a curve. And up in the windy roads, like the Ujung Genteng to Pangandaran stretch, having something lighter has been appreciated. The heavier something is, the harder it is to slow down. Point being, it's not how big the bike is; it's how you use it.

And when it comes to traffic... My God... Bandung traffic is absolutely INSANE!!! I sure would want to be maneuvering a 200 kg big bike through this bedlam.

Hiya Badazzz! See you tomorrow!

 

[Puspawarna]

Hiya Badazzz! See you tomorrow!

Make me jealous, why don't you?

Seriously, have fun! I had the pleasure of visiting BA once and it was delightful.

 

[Bad_azz]

Bandung has its own special way with traffic-
if you are coming to a major road from a minor road - just pull out... apparently
If the lights are red and you cannot see any cops - toot the horn and sail thru the lights...
double & triple parking is allowed- of course - especially anywhere that might fk it up for everyone else on the road.
Kids are permitted on the front driver's seat climbing all over the driver whilst the vehicle is in motion- obviously
Take just about every road rule you ever learnt anywhere else and tip it on its head and you will be fine in Bdg- or dead

I stopped freaking out a long while back now I just swear at everyone all the time it helps to keep the sanity intact.
Do not be alarmed if you see road rage - I have seen it several times in Bdg- the only time I have ever seen Indonesian people lose the plot in public is some minor road misdemeanor- such as a car moving an inch and actually touching the rear mudguard or a scooter waiting at the lights in front of it- or someone blocking the junction at a set of lights because the traffic in front has backed up & he is left with nowhere to go... easy pickings for the angry people who got out of their cars and were yelling & screaming in the street.

Anyway- Bandung & riding on scooters- I love it- love it best at 2/3 in the morning and the roads are empty , the air is cold and I can gun-it all the way home at a whopping 50-70kmh hahaha: proper petrol head I am

& pusp- you are too kind, I can only say the pleasure was all ours!

 

[Bad_azz]

oh & Joko, tomorrow I promise you a night like you most probably never experienced in Indonesia- there will likely not be a sober person there (except me).
Last week at a gig the vocalist was so drunk that he fell asleep at the table after the first set- so the stoners took the mike hahaha hilarious.
One of the girls was so drunk she couldn't get on the back of the vespa... she wobbled and lurched into the road straight in front of a car that had just sped up to get thru the lights- how the hell he missed her I don't know- once she had been lifted on the back of the scooter they tied her onto her hubby.
I haven't had nights out like it in Jakarta- a much more sober crowd Great for people watching tho'.

 

[Joko]

FINALLY! I got out onto the road.

It's weird trying to figure out what tense to put this in. See, I'm an English teacher, and I try to be really clear with my students when talking about tenses. Something happened in the past and is finished and over, use past simple tense. Something that happened in the past, but is still having an effect on the present, use present perfect tense. Something that happened in the past before something else in the past, use past perfect. Gah! I'm currently still on my Java motorcycle tour, but writing about it as if it were new and just happening now...

Leaving Jakarta, traffic lightened up once I got well out of town towards Depok. I got to Bogor, and visited the remarkable Botanical gardens. I've never seen anything quite like it in the tropics. I had been to Bogor before, but I don't remember it, as it was so long ago.

 

[Wisnu]

wow, you're real Joko !!