Election fraud

[harryopal1]

There are continuing TV news stories about investigations into election fraud but I find it hard to work out if this is significant or likely to change any results. Perhaps those with fluent Bahasa Indonesian can enlighten us?

 

[fastpitch17]

There are those parties while proclaiming fraud and attempting to prove it. No matter what, Prabowo is Jokowi's chosen one and it is Jokowi's son slipped in there as the VP candidate. Government organizations would have to declare if there was fraud but in the end, Jokowi is the government. Nothing is going to happen to change anything.

At the same time there are political pundits out there saying that they expect Probowo to keep embracing Jokowi but, only for maybe Two years before he breaks the chains and goes back to the Prabowo ways. The only way he had a chance of being elected was to embrace Jokowi but he doesn't really care to much for Jokowi's governing. In the past week Probowo has aligned himself with Tommy Soeharto. The guy who wants to bring back the way his father ruled. Tommy is Prabowo's brother in law. As for Jokowi's son, he has to follow whatever Prabowo tells him. Prabowo also isn't too crazy about Indonesia's current democracy but he doesn't say what changes need to be made. You have to wait until he's sworn in come October.

Will we see the new, New Order?

 

[Hawk256]

Much like any election, the worse thing that could happen is the governement to admit that there was fraud. Without getting into whether or not it could have happend in the past in the US or other countries, I can safely say that even if they found evidence they would never admit it. Nothing more destabilizing to a country than that.

 

[John indonesia]

There are continuing TV news stories about investigations into election fraud

Which outlets are publishing the stories?
The Jakarta post is, but the owners and Anies (I'm told) are friends.
Hardly anyone else is carrying the stories.

Google all three candidates' name with "International republican Institute", "Usaid", and "Amcham"
All three groups are directly involved with the National endowment for democracy if you look at their site, it explains almost nothing, but the names and jobs are there.
One name comes up a lot but the others hardly show a thing

 

[harryopal1]

Indonesian TV channels have continued running the stories.

 

[John indonesia]

Indonesian TV channels have continued running the stories.

I only read a few newspapers from time to time. Only a couple are running stories about fraud.
I did read a lot about election meddling, and I found something that seems to require an explanation from one candidate.
As for bribes - probably, but how much difference did such things make to the outcome? Of course money for votes is unacceptable, but did it change the result? I can't really see them bribing millions and millions of people.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Even if they bribe people to vote for a particular candidate, it doesn't mean they actually voted for that candidate. The actual voting process is confidential and can't be seen by anyone else other than the person who voted. I know that Anies gave out a lot of money in Makassar, but those recipients would also happy receive money from other candidates who come round to their street. "Any contributions are welcome".
Unfortunately no-one came round to our house ...

 

[John indonesia]

I know that Anies gave out a lot of money in Makassar,

Silly question, and I'm not suggesting anything to contradict your point, but how do you know?

 

[Samoerai]

As for bribes - probably, but how much difference did such things make to the outcome? Of course money for votes is unacceptable, but did it change the result? I can't really see them bribing millions and millions of people.

Maybe something happened, like with Facebook en Cambridge Analytica? And millions of people got influenced during election? Instead of using Facebook, they use TikTok? To control people's minds and actions. And 'they' meaning negara Cina. Do 'they' have a preference for a specific candidate?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Silly question, and I'm not suggesting anything to contradict your point, but how do you know?

My wife's extended family told us, in fact everyone in their area were lucky recipients of his generosity. I think it was 300k per household. One reason why he's so popular in that province!

 

[John indonesia]

My wife's extended family told us, in fact everyone in their area were lucky recipients of his generosity. I think it was 300k per household. One reason why he's so popular in that province!

I have a good idea where the money came from

 

[John indonesia]

Maybe something happened, like with Facebook en Cambridge Analytica? And millions of people got influenced during election? Instead of using Facebook, they use TikTok? And 'they' meaning negara Cina. Do 'they' have a preference for a specific candidate?

China would have been happy with Prabowo or Ganja (Did I get the spelling right?)
Anies was bad news for china as he supported the US (Did you read my post about the candidates and the CIA?)

 

[Dave70]

China would have been happy with Prabowo or Ganja (Did I get the spelling right?)
Anies was bad news for china as he supported the US (Did you read my post about the candidates and the CIA?)

Prabowo is also good for Singapore and ASEAN, according to former Singapore Foreign Minister George Yeo.

Former foreign minister George Yeo says Prabowo presidency good for Singapore and Asean: UOB's inaugural wealth event

“Prabowo is his own man who won’t be dancing to Jokowi’s tune,” says Yeo, at UOB's flagship event for wealth clients.

www.theedgesingapore.com

 

[John indonesia]

Prabowo is also good for Singapore and ASEAN, according to former Singapore Foreign Minister George Yeo.

Former foreign minister George Yeo says Prabowo presidency good for Singapore and Asean: UOB's inaugural wealth event

“Prabowo is his own man who won’t be dancing to Jokowi’s tune,” says Yeo, at UOB's flagship event for wealth clients.

www.theedgesingapore.com

If the cash is behind him, his election win is all the stronger.

 

[pantaiema]

Suharto was unbeatable when it came to committing election fraud. During his reign, there was only ever one candidate, rendering general elections a pointless exercise. Complete waste of money.

Suharto's downfall wasn't due to electoral defeat but rather the courage of democracy activists, some of whom paid with their own and their family lives.

 

[snpark]

The barbed wire is already out around St Regis and Rasuna Said / KPU for the demo tomorrow

 

[Bob]

Suharto was unbeatable when it came to committing election fraud. During his reign, there was only ever one candidate, rendering general elections a pointless exercise. Complete waste of money.

Suharto's downfall wasn't due to electoral defeat but rather the courage of democracy activists, some of whom paid with their own and their family lives.

Are you sure there was only one candidate? If I remember correctly there was token opposition a la Singapore. And I guess you're referring to legislative elections, since the legislature elected the president then.

 

[Shadrach]

China would have been happy with Prabowo or Ganja (Did I get the spelling right?)
Anies was bad news for china as he supported the US (Did you read my post about the candidates and the CIA?)

Oh yes, you got the spelling right! All the world leaders should sit down at a round table and have a Joint Session! Maybe if they did it this way, there would be World Peace and Goodwill to the Earth, Animals, and all the Humans!

 

[nd_eric_77]

Are you sure there was only one candidate? If I remember correctly there was token opposition a la Singapore. And I guess you're referring to legislative elections, since the legislature elected the president then.

I used to hear that Suharto was the only candidate, and people would protest by "golput" aka golongan putih - leaving the ballot blank.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The PPP (Islamic party) was always allowed to participate in elections in those days. Ironically, the PPP in this election only received 3.87% of the vote, below the 4% threshold, so are not able to send any of their candidates to parliament.