work permit for foreigner

[Rikus]

Hello All,
I have been reading about working as foreigner merried to indonesian in an UD or a CV, but its not clear to me. If my wife setup an CV and employ me, do i get an IMTA and be able to work anywhere and in any field i wish in Indonesia?

I have a KITAP and already live here for 15 years.

 

[jstar]

No, a CV can not get an IMTA. (Old nomenclature btw.)

 

[R Cameron]

Your wife would need to establish a PT, and then hire you as a foreign expert with an IMTA. If it was a consultancy of some sort you may be able to effectively work in a number of fields as a consultant (but I am not a lawyer!).

The more common scenario, which you've probably seen or even done if you've been here 15 years, is for a spouse to open an UD or CV and have the foreign spouse work quietly within the business without an IMTA.

 

[Rikus]

If my wife set up a CV , i dont want to work "quietly ' but just do what i m allowed to do, dont want to be looking over my shoulder if there is some one maybe ratting me out, i know some cases from friends.
I m a technician by profession and would like to work in that field.There are many options on what kind of work i can do.
I would like to know if its allowed to do fysical labour, like machining parts for factories. Can I be a mechanic and go to factories to repair, etc their equipment? Or can I only do advisory work and point with my finger how they should repair or install a machine? This all under a CV on my wifes name.
I know most rules are grey here and that give some officials the power to tell you thats what you do is not according the law in their eyes. I dont want to get into that kind of sliding slope. I want to be sure that what i do to make my family income will be legal.

 

[R Cameron]

I dont want to get into that kind of sliding slope. I want to be sure that what i do to make my family income will be legal.

If you want certainty, you need to be hired by a PT with an IMTA.

 

[Rikus]

I still would like to know what , of my work options i wrote, I can do in my wife's CV ?

 

[R Cameron]

I still would like to know what , of my work options i wrote, I can do in my wife's CV ?

With full confidence in legality, none at all.

Article 61 of the Immigration law says you can work to support your family, but that seems to contradict other portions of law. This has been discussed dozens of times on the forum here, many people are depending on Article 61 taking precedence over any contradicting laws, and so far that seems to be the case. But there remains a risk, though it is very small in my opinion.

Article 61
"Holder of a limited Stay Permanent [who is legally married to an Indonesian citizen], can engage the work and/or the business to satisfy his/her living need and/or his/her family."

 

[Rikus]

If talking about risks, what can that be? A financial penalty or a prison sentence ?
I know a company who had 2 foreign mechanics on business visa installing equipment when the imigration came checking.Penalty was 300jt pp, but after negotiations is was down to 150jt per person.
I am not looking forward for that kind of payments, plus i guess I will be on a black list of some kind.
Is there on this forum a member who is working on a CV on his wife's name and doing similar work like i would like to do?

 

[R Cameron]

The company was probably fined, not the individuals. I believe the individuals are simply deported and blacklisted.
Search the forum a bit, there has been a great deal of discussion about Article 61 and people working with that as their sole izin. Maybe some will chime in here, but past threads are a good resource.

 

[centurion]

If talking about risks, what can that be? A financial penalty or a prison sentence ?
I know a company who had 2 foreign mechanics on business visa installing equipment when the imigration came checking.Penalty was 300jt pp, but after negotiations is was down to 150jt per person.
I am not looking forward for that kind of payments, plus i guess I will be on a black list of some kind.
Is there on this forum a member who is working on a CV on his wife's name and doing similar work like i would like to do?

The fine for the involved persons are up to 5 years of prison and up to 500 million Rp (art 122 Immigration Law) for misuse of visa/stay permit,
The fine for the company is 1-4 years prison and 100 to 400 million Rp fine, felony (art 185 Labor Law 13/2003) for employing foreigner without approval from Minister (usually work permit).

 

[Euc-]

If talking about risks, what can that be? A financial penalty or a prison sentence ?
I know a company who had 2 foreign mechanics on business visa installing equipment when the imigration came checking.Penalty was 300jt pp, but after negotiations is was down to 150jt per person.
I am not looking forward for that kind of payments, plus i guess I will be on a black list of some kind.
Is there on this forum a member who is working on a CV on his wife's name and doing similar work like i would like to do?

If you say "after negotiations" I highly doubt that this was an official type of penalty.

I have seen a few cases where either the person was working on a business visa while the KITAS was being processed, where the working location in the IMTA did not match the actual location of work being done (petty things like Kabupatan Bandung instead of Kota Bandung, with over 30 locations on the IMTA this was an honest mistake and not an effort to mislead) or even a guy who got promoted 2 months before his permits were expiring and the company figured they'd just do it at the extention/renewal and not bother with the 2 months.

Let's just say all of those guys are still in the country and none of them (or the companies) paid anywhere near those kinds of amounts.

 

[ericjancoen]

technically you can convert the C.V (Perseroan Komanditer/Commanditaire Vennootschap (CV) into P.T (Perseroan Terbatas). the company have more responsibility but it also come with more benefit. try consulting your notary about it.

 

[Rikus]

Thank you all for all your input and advice. I would like to get in tutch with some one who can help me to setup a CV on my wife's name.
Is there any one here on this forum or some contact information for helping me with that?

 

[dafluff]

Hello All,
I have been reading about working as foreigner merried to indonesian in an UD or a CV, but its not clear to me. If my wife setup an CV and employ me, do i get an IMTA and be able to work anywhere and in any field i wish in Indonesia?

I have a KITAP and already live here for 15 years.

There are several interpretations of the law authorizing spousal KITAS/P holders to work and the law requiring foreign workers to have company provided IMTA.

The generally accepted interpretation, and one that we have significant precedence for, is that a spousal KITAS/P holder may work in a situation where an IMTA is not possible and where there is no employer. One such case is working in a family owned business that is a CV or UD, as those two types of businesses are not able to obtain IMTA.

So to go back to your question, can you work anywhere and in any field? No. You can only work in the capacity of co-owner of UD/CV, depending on the business description of the UD/CV.

Maybe it is better to describe what you are wanting to work as, then it is easier to give a specific answer.

 

[Rikus]

I m a technician by profession and would like to work in that field.There are many options on what kind of work i can do.
I would like to know if its allowed to do fysical labour, like machining parts for factories. Can I be a mechanic and go to factories to repair, etc their equipment? Or can I only do advisory work and point with my finger how they should repair or install a machine? This all under a CV on my Indonesian wifes name

 

[R Cameron]

I don't know what new answer you're looking for.

You can do that work if a PT gets an IMTA for you to do that work, we've covered that.

Doing that work as part of your wife's CV simply falls under Article 61 of the immigration law, which you can see is quite vague.

To an optimistic foreigner, Article 61 clearly permits you to do the work you describe. However, those with years of experience here know that laws sometimes (often?) get interpreted to the detriment of the foreigner with additional stipulations added at the whim of the Kepala [fill in the blank].

You can choose to work in a relatively quiet, non-visible way and probably get along fine forever.

Or you can choose to work in a more publicly visible way, knowing there is a chance you will be a combination of fined, jailed, deported, and blacklisted. And if you fight through it with huge legal bills, you may become the example which finally clarifies how to interpret Article 61 before the Indonesian Supreme Court.

I don't know how anyone here could offer you any more assurance than that. The one other option I see is that you could ask your local immigration office if you are allowed to do the work you describe based on Article 61. If their response (in writing!) is favorable, you can feel mostly assured. If their response is not favorable, you could get lawyers involved and try to fight through the legal system for an official, and hopefully more favorable, interpretation of Article 61.

 

[dafluff]

I m a technician by profession and would like to work in that field.There are many options on what kind of work i can do.
I would like to know if its allowed to do fysical labour, like machining parts for factories. Can I be a mechanic and go to factories to repair, etc their equipment? Or can I only do advisory work and point with my finger how they should repair or install a machine? This all under a CV on my Indonesian wifes name

You are likely ok to do this kind of work for your own CV/UD. Physical labor is permitted in this context. We have a case where a foreigner on spousal visa is selling burgers out of a moving stall at a local market. This even made it to the TV news, and as far as I know, no immigration officials came knocking.

 

[Rikus]

Thanks again for all your input and advice. I will setup a CV on my wifes name and expect it will work out.

 

[centurion]

Thank you all for all your input and advice. I would like to get in tutch with some one who can help me to setup a CV on my wife's name.
Is there any one here on this forum or some contact information for helping me with that?

You cannot convert CV to PT.