Wise (formerly TransferWise)

[Wayan]

Okay, thanks for the advice. The thing is, I don't need any multicurrency account in Europe. I just need a reliable and safe IBAN-haven for my funds payed out in Euro (royalities) coming from other IBAN-accounts in Europe. I will skim off the whole in currency Euro as well. All things are related to exchange, convert and multicurrency I solve outside this account f.e. with my indonesian bank.
P.S: @jstar: Thanks for your two sentences at the end. This can be very important. For me doesn't matter because I still pay tax automatically according to dta (double taxation agreement) in my origin country.

 

[Wayan]

View attachment 3932
This guy learns a hard lesson, as Santander Bank close his bank Account with balance of around £100k and he wanted to sue the bank for the difficulties he is experiencing not getting access to his money.

What he has not said here (but discover by other people), this guy has been living in Thailand. He put his postal address in the UK address and probably did not monitor the communication sent by the banks email to his UK postal address.
When the bank closed his account and probably the bank sent a cheque to his UK postal address, with closing balance he did not received it as he is in Thailand. He is not losing his money as the cheque must be credited to bank account in the UK under his name, noone else could cash the cheque. He is suing Santander for his own mistake. I have read many stories that people bank account get closed in recent years. This is just the most recent example

This is what I want avoid

 

[pantaiema]

This is what I want avoid

If you are looking for a bank with IBAN, not Fintech, As mentioned by other people HSBC expat account:

Offshore Bank Accounts | Expat Account - HSBC Expat

Open an offshore HSBC Expat Current Account, available in GBP, USD and EUR. Also open a savings account in 19 different currencies. Find out how today.

www.expat.hsbc.com

But typically the expat/international accounts come with other terms and are not based in Europe to avoid a tighter European regulation. HSBC expat for instances is based in Jersey so you will not be protected by FCA (UK), BaFin (DE), AMF (FR), etc.

Also typically there is a requirement to maintain a large minimum balance or pay the underfunding fee.

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/mbos/docs/tariff-of-charges/hsbc-expat-tariff-of-charges-10-nov-2023.pdf

HSBC expat for instance minimum balance £50k or pay the underfunding fee £35.

I have read about Fineco Bank an Italian Bank. It is also very famous with its multi currency account. You might want to investigate it.

 

[Wayan]

Just got another fact about the PayDo-SEPA-account. The SWIFT/BIC-Code is not registrated at the German Federal Bank (Bundesbank). This means for me it's useless. Revolut is listed, I already check. I come back if I get further experiences.

 

[Samoerai]

Interesting. Wise cannot offer IBAN-accounts for clients, with residency in Indonesia, who want multi-currency balances, but Revolut (still) can? Why?

 

[Wayan]

First I also need to check out Revolut. A German guy lives in Jakarta wrote about the case:

""(...)
Indonesian government tightens measures against gambling payments: Wise and PayPal in focus

The Indonesian government has recently taken tougher measures against illegal gambling transactions, with international payment service Wise taking center stage. In a country where gambling and pornography are largely banned, Wise's ability to transfer payments worldwide poses a challenge for authorities to monitor illegal transactions. Verifying these transactions is also extremely difficult for Wise itself.

In contrast, PayPal positions itself as a company that prohibits gambling payments from the outset. Although PayPal does not offer direct bank accounts, it does charge high fees, especially for payments in foreign currencies.

The discussion over the regulation of payment services such as Wise and PayPal in relation to gambling transactions is gaining importance as the Indonesian government takes measures to combat illegal activities. It remains to be seen how the situation will develop and whether further adjustments will be necessary in the legislation or business practices of payment service providers in Indonesia. (...)"
Link to German spoken website: https://www.bayi.de/2024/02/29/das-ende-von-wise-in-indonesien/

Maybe this is an explanation

 

[Samoerai]

First I also need to check out Revolut. A German guy lives in Jakarta wrote about the case:

""(...)
Indonesian government tightens measures against gambling payments: Wise and PayPal in focus

The Indonesian government has recently taken tougher measures against illegal gambling transactions, with international payment service Wise taking center stage. In a country where gambling and pornography are largely banned, Wise's ability to transfer payments worldwide poses a challenge for authorities to monitor illegal transactions. Verifying these transactions is also extremely difficult for Wise itself.

In contrast, PayPal positions itself as a company that prohibits gambling payments from the outset. Although PayPal does not offer direct bank accounts, it does charge high fees, especially for payments in foreign currencies.

The discussion over the regulation of payment services such as Wise and PayPal in relation to gambling transactions is gaining importance as the Indonesian government takes measures to combat illegal activities. It remains to be seen how the situation will develop and whether further adjustments will be necessary in the legislation or business practices of payment service providers in Indonesia. (...)"
Link to German spoken website: https://www.bayi.de/2024/02/29/das-ende-von-wise-in-indonesien/

Maybe this is an explanation

I see. Gambling payments are too blame for Wise not to be able to continue multi-currency balances to Indonesian residents and in particular offer IBAN bank accounts.

Gambling payments will move to other fintech platforms, like Revolut maybe? Never ending story

 

[Samoerai]

It says maintain a balance. In other words send and receive. But can't keep funds there as an account "stored"
Transactions only. No deposits

As I understand now from the link in post#46 , you can only transfer money from your own (foreign) bankaccount to your own (Indonesian) bankaccount, using Wise of course.

Der Tod von Wise in Indonesien 2024 - Auswandern nach Indonesien

Erfahren Sie die bevorstehenden Kontoeinschränkungen von Wise in Indonesien und entdecken Sie die Auswirkungen auf digitale Zahlungen.

www.bayi.de

So, you cannot (directly) send money from your (foreign) bankaccount to someone else (Indonesian) bankaccount. Effectively next month. Did I understand this correctly?

 

[snpark]

How I understand it is it must be one full transaction so through that middle account only.

Unlike e.g PayPal where you can receive money and keep it and "store" it and then withdraw or send again when you want

Wise now is a facility to send from a to c through b

Can't keep it in b using b as an "account" per se

 

[jstar]

Yep, the keeping a ‘wallet’ option and have Wise / PayPal / …. act as a bank is deemed illegal.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they get blocked by the likes of FM, Telkomsel, etc. As what they already do with crypto brokers. And I wonder how long the solely online banks (as Revolut etc.) will be available in this country.

 

[Samoerai]

Yep, the keeping a ‘wallet’ option and have Wise / PayPal / …. act as a bank is deemed illegal.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they get blocked by the likes of FM, Telkomsel, etc. As what they already do with crypto brokers. And I wonder how long the solely online banks (as Revolut etc.) will be available in this country.

Okay. If Revolut and similar fintech platforms will be banned soon. It seems to me an HSBC-expat account will be the only option for @Wayan. I think he can match the requirements. And that will provide him with an IBAN bankaccount, right?

 

[jstar]

Nah. VPN etc. Also, what is ‘soon’?

 

[Brian86]

Wise now is a facility to send from a to c through b

Can't keep it in b using b as an "account" per se

Close to how I understand it.
A - sender's bank
B - sender's wise account
C - receiver's wise account
D - receiver's bank

Before you could do A-to-C or B-to-C, now you can only do B-to-D. For those in Indonesia C can no longer hold any money, anything sent to it (only by B) will automatically be forwarded to D. I never cared about keeping money in my Wise account (C), but now my customers need to start using Wise in order to send me money.

 

[snpark]

Much like Paypal I assume that paying by paypal actually takes the money from your account or credit card directly unless you have a "balance" there, which now of course you can't

Likewise if someone sent money to your paypal, you can withdraw it any time to your BCA or keep it "there" but with wise you can't now, it will automatically deposit into your account

 

[Samoerai]

Close to how I understand it.
A - sender's bank
B - sender's wise account
C - receiver's wise account
D - receiver's bank

Before you could do A-to-C or B-to-C, now you can only do B-to-D. For those in Indonesia C can no longer hold any money, anything sent to it (only by B) will automatically be forwarded to D. I never cared about keeping money in my Wise account (C), but now my customers need to start using Wise in order to send me money.

Yes. That's what I understand too from the link in #46. Before I just use Wise to send money to my (WNI) wife's bankaccount: B to D. Next month I cannot do that anymore, unless she gets an account at Wise: B to C.

 

[snpark]

I realise I might have repeated myself again
Perhaps I should return back home

 

[snpark]

And boldly go
Or go boldly


But the best one

DO NOT ACT
no punctuation needed ;-)

 

[Dave70]

Yes. That's what I understand too from the link in #46. Before I just use Wise to send money to my (WNI) wife's bankaccount: B to D. Next month I cannot do that anymore, unless she gets an account at Wise: B to C.

Are you sure B-to-C still possible next month? According to Brian86 #53, only B-to-D.

 

[Samoerai]

Are you sure B-to-C still possible next month? According to Brian86 #53, only B-to-D.

I am not sure, actually. The explaination in the link was for me not clear. I hope B to D will (still) work, so I can transfer money directly to my wife's bank account (like I'm used to).

Edit: Ha, I understand that particular paragraph now. Read it in my own language. B to D only, next month.

 

[snpark]

Or use password "Thunder"
And then it routes AC DC