Why no-one speaks Indonesia's language

[BPNBound]

Why no-one speaks Indonesian

I can certainly relate to this.

 

[Puspawarna]

Fascinating article. I think it overstates the case a little. I hear Indonesian I can understand when I hear two Indonesians talking to each other (when I'm not part of the conversation, I'm just eavesdropping), which wouldn't be the case if things were as bad as the author claims. But yes, there is a lot to relate to in the article.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

A lot of kids growing up now in Jakarta speak only Indonesian and may not be able to speak the regional language/dialect of their parents with any fluency (although they may well understand it). Then there is a small subset of Indonesian kids at international schools for whom English is their first language and they cannot speak Indonesian properly (never mind any dialects). This is due to their parents speaking to them in English, despite being Indonesian.

 

[ukozok]

I responded to this article here: https://indonesian-online.com/no-one-speaks-indonesias-language/

U. Kozok, Professor of Indonesian

 

[ukozok]

A lot of kids growing up now in Jakarta speak only Indonesian and may not be able to speak the regional language/dialect of their parents with any fluency (although they may well understand it). Then there is a small subset of Indonesian kids at international schools for whom English is their first language and they cannot speak Indonesian properly (never mind any dialects). This is due to their parents speaking to them in English, despite being Indonesian.

I met one of these poor guys. He became a student at the University of Hawaii, and then took my Indonesian languages classes to learn the language, which was supposed to be his native tongue.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I'm also talking about kids who are completely located in Indonesia (Jakarta/Bali), not abroad. Whole classes of Indonesians speak English to each other the whole day without a word of Indonesian. Remarkable. Then at home they're on youtube or whatever. They study it in classes but other than that no interest, it seems.

 

[ukozok]

I'm also talking about kids who are completely located in Indonesia (Jakarta/Bali), not abroad. Whole classes of Indonesians speak English to each other the whole day without a word of Indonesian. Remarkable. Then at home they're on youtube or whatever. They study it in classes but other than that no interest, it seems.

Yes, this kid, who became my student, just came from Indonesia to study at UH. He grew up in Jakarta. Yet, his Indonesian was appalling.

 

[Balifrog]

They study it in classes but other than that no interest, it seems

THAT is the question one should ask himself......

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Of all the things he could study in Hawaii after moving half way across the world, Indonesian seems a strange choice!

 

[harryopal1]

It should be a great advantage having an Indonesian wife. However, when I ask her to speak Bahasa Indonesian slowly she finds it too difficult and prefers to speak to me in English. I persevere using Anki, watching Youtube cerita anak, watching news in Indonesian and try to speak Bahasa Indonesian when I am out. But as I am not working and constantly communicating with other Indonesians it has been a slow process.

 

[fastpitch17]

I confess, my Bahasa Indonesia is bad at it's best. I just can't comprehend as I could when I was younger. Now, I learn a word here and there. Vocally I don't understand it while reading the words I get clues so I can somewhat figure out what it's trying to say. News casters speak way to fast so I reserve myself to trying to understand the written lines below them. That and any video connected to the report.

My wife too insist on only speaking English with me or any Indonesian that speaks English. Her 30 some years in the US pretty much put Bahasa Indonesia behind her and slowly she picked it back up after we moved here. Still is still often regarded as a blue who has learned the Indonesian language.

To learn Indonesian here I would need to fight with the family members that always want me to speak English along with all those that when speaking Bahasa Indonesian keep slipping in various words from different dialects. Especially here in Lampung where Lampunian is still taught in schools and even have newscast in Lampunian. They can even read it and if you seen the characters they have for written language you would be amazed. Some buildings still feature these characters.

I get along just fine with the words I know and any gestures I can come up with. Gestures are an international dialect.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

It should be a great advantage having an Indonesian wife. However, when I ask her to speak Bahasa Indonesian slowly she finds it too difficult and prefers to speak to me in English.

This is exactly why I hate speaking to Indonesians in English unless their English is really really good. In order for them to understand my English I have to speak slowly as if I am speaking to a dim child, which makes my English worse. If they want a free English lesson (which they normally do) they can try someone else with more patience than I have.
I had a half hour conversation with an administrator at the school and I spoke for the entire time in Indonesian and she spoke for the entire time in English. It was like a competition, who would break first. Same thing happened with a taxi driver for one hour, he just refused to speak Indonesian and I refused to speak English. After about 45 minutes he gave up and spoke Indonesian.
I think it is basic politeness that if someone addresses you in your own country in your own language, you respond in the same language. I don't know if it is some kind of racism or rudeness that makes them think that just because you have white skin they can practise their poor English on you.
/rant over

 

[harryopal1]

I

This is exactly why I hate speaking to Indonesians in English unless their English is really really good. In order for them to understand my English I have to speak slowly as if I am speaking to a dim child, which makes my English worse. If they want a free English lesson (which they normally do) they can try someone else with more patience than I have.
I had a half hour conversation with an administrator at the school and I spoke for the entire time in Indonesian and she spoke for the entire time in English. It was like a competition, who would break first. Same thing happened with a taxi driver for one hour, he just refused to speak Indonesian and I refused to speak English. After about 45 minutes he gave up and spoke Indonesian.
I think it is basic politeness that if someone addresses you in your own country in your own language, you respond in the same language. I don't know if it is some kind of racism or rudeness that makes them think that just because you have white skin they can practise their poor English on you.
/rant over

If we are trying to learn something, speaking a different language, we are often eager to use every opportunity to do so. I imagine most people speaking to you are not being deliberately rude or racist but happy to have a chance to use English with the possibility they may better understand you in English than Bahasa Indonesian unless you are particularly fluent in Indonesia.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well if I address them in Indonesian, and they respond in English, I regard it as very rude indeed. They are a) ignoring my choice of language, b) implying their English is better than my Indonesian, c) taking it as a chance for a free english lesson. Of course I cannot stop them speaking English, but I normally respond in Indonesian that I can't really understand what they said, and I continue speaking in Indonesian until they get the message.
Luckily in the majority of cases Indonesians are quite happy to speak in Indonesian.

One exception to the above scenario, which links to the discussion on another thread, is with young kids/adults who were educated in international schools and just feel more comfortable speaking English (and their Indonesian may not be very good anyway). In those cases their English is so fluent that I'm fine with speaking to them in English as I would to an English person. This category of person is becoming more numerous as time goes on.

 

[Hawk256]

I have a true language block and even though I have lived in different countries over the years, I always had trouble picking up local languages. Even though I have decided to stay in Indonesia (at least for a while) my Indonesian is terrible and I have been here plenty long enough to do better. But the advantage of not having to make small talk with every person I meet has far outweighed the negatives IMO. I am a fairly quiet person anyway to it fits for me to speak as little as possible.

 

[ukozok]

Of all the things he could study in Hawaii after moving half way across the world, Indonesian seems a strange choice!

No, he studies something else, I don't remember the subject, but he also took Indonesian classes with me.

 

[ukozok]

Well if I address them in Indonesian, and they respond in English, I regard it as very rude indeed. They are a) ignoring my choice of language, b) implying their English is better than my Indonesian, c) taking it as a chance for a free english lesson. Of course I cannot stop them speaking English, but I normally respond in Indonesian that I can't really understand what they said, and I continue speaking in Indonesian until they get the message.
Luckily in the majority of cases Indonesians are quite happy to speak in Indonesian.

One exception to the above scenario, which links to the discussion on another thread, is with young kids/adults who were educated in international schools and just feel more comfortable speaking English (and their Indonesian may not be very good anyway). In those cases their English is so fluent that I'm fine with speaking to them in English as I would to an English person. This category of person is becoming more numerous as time goes on.

This happens rarely to me, probably because my Indonesian is pretty much native-like. But once in a while it also happens to me. Then I simply tell them, sorry, English is not my native tongue, and then they usually stop.

 

[Bob]

Well if I address them in Indonesian, and they respond in English, I regard it as very rude indeed. They are a) ignoring my choice of language, b) implying their English is better than my Indonesian, c) taking it as a chance for a free english lesson. Of course I cannot stop them speaking English, but I normally respond in Indonesian that I can't really understand what they said, and I continue speaking in Indonesian until they get the message.
Luckily in the majority of cases Indonesians are quite happy to speak in Indonesian.

One exception to the above scenario, which links to the discussion on another thread, is with young kids/adults who were educated in international schools and just feel more comfortable speaking English (and their Indonesian may not be very good anyway). In those cases their English is so fluent that I'm fine with speaking to them in English as I would to an English person. This category of person is becoming more numerous as time goes on.

They're not necessarily being rude and they may well be trying to be polite. And if they're trying to practice their English, so what? We can be gracious and indulge them. If there's a question of meaning we can confirm in Indonesian.
Unless there's a clear hierarchy in effect, choice of language isn't unilateral, something about high horses.
There are many frustrations in life. Things are easier when we don't look for more.

 

[serious_fun]

Yes, this kid, who became my student, just came from Indonesia to study at UH. He grew up in Jakarta. Yet, his Indonesian was appalling.

fascinating.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I still don't understand why, after a whole childhood in Jakarta of avoiding speaking Indonesian, he then goes to Hawaii and starts to study it (and with a foreigner!). Maybe he needed a credit and that looked an easy option?