What Keeps People In Indonesia?

But while I'm single and unattached, I'm damn well going to take advantage of that privilege.

hahaha...I think you've answered the question of why so arrogant.

Marry an Indonesian, especially one with a big family, and they'll soon suck the independence, arrogance, contempt and savings out of you...and you'll end up very contented...but poor...:madgrin:
 
nothing is anchoring me to Indonesia. So why stay in a known place where I'm unhappy? Certainly things aren't yet bad enough that I'm going from leave potentially lucrative opportunities in Indonesia. But once those are gone, unlike many of you guys, I don't have any reason to try to stay

Yes there are many places in the world a person could live and be relatively happy. I was relatively happy where I was living, different country, and may move again. I imagine I will find some positives and happiness there as well. I may also move back again in the future. I believe a lot of my personal happiness comes from within. Also, if I am not happy I will take this with me wherever I move. This does not mean I don't have preferences. I tend to like some things more and some less in different places. But overall here I find the people to be respectful and I feel generally safe. I have experienced one instance of road rage, in Jakarta but it did not really put me off. This could happen in most places. I hope some of the religious people here don't make it more difficult for others, including for Muslims. Also, the corruption and how this can effect people can get me angry. But at this point I feel safe, respected and the weather is nice. This does not preclude me from living somewhere else. And I hope you find some of what you are looking for. There is no doubt some things are more efficient in some other countries.
 
What has kept me in Indonesia for the past 16 years is the people of my region, starting with my wife and kids of course, but also all the people, very different one from another, that I meet and interact with in a day.

The good people of Northern Sulawesi, their strong community sense and the fact that they have accepted me as one of theirs have made it all.

Sure, Indonesia is far from perfect, there are concerns and risks for the future but it has allowed me to improve as an adult and I see my kids growing here acquiring values and qualities I like and often recognize in Indonesian people.

The second thing which keeps me here is business: huge potential. I am amazed at what we have achieved in the past 16 years but I am even more amazed at the prospects up front. Whoever has guts, willingness to adapt, expertise and capital should have a look at my region.
 
Slightly off the thread but still relevant.
This is what International Living had to say last year about Indonesia as a place for USA retirees.....

"Island buffs rejoice, there's a retirement destination with virtually endless coastline and it's waiting for you.
Like Cambodia, Indonesia is a retirement option for those in good health. Its vast network of islands means that unless you've moved to one of the big cities, the nearest hospital will probably be a little far away. Yet in exchange for that trade-off is island living like nowhere else in the world.

The country that boasts Bali and the Gili Islands, Indonesia is a vacation hotspot, which has given it the reputation of having some of the most expensive hotels in Southeast Asia. Don't be fooled. For those who want to move to one of its 17,000 islands, the cost of actually living rather than visiting is more than cheap enough for that Social Security check. A few hundred dollars will buy you a nice one-bedroom apartment, and a single buck will get you a plate of noodles with a view of the ocean.

This is the choice for an adventurer who also keeps a good book in his back pocket for long evenings spent listening to surf."
 
Slightly off the thread but still relevant.
This is what International Living had to say last year about Indonesia as a place for USA retirees.....

"Island buffs rejoice, there's a retirement destination with virtually endless coastline and it's waiting for you.
Like Cambodia, Indonesia is a retirement option for those in good health. Its vast network of islands means that unless you've moved to one of the big cities, the nearest hospital will probably be a little far away. Yet in exchange for that trade-off is island living like nowhere else in the world.

The country that boasts Bali and the Gili Islands, Indonesia is a vacation hotspot, which has given it the reputation of having some of the most expensive hotels in Southeast Asia. Don't be fooled. For those who want to move to one of its 17,000 islands, the cost of actually living rather than visiting is more than cheap enough for that Social Security check. A few hundred dollars will buy you a nice one-bedroom apartment, and a single buck will get you a plate of noodles with a view of the ocean.

This is the choice for an adventurer who also keeps a good book in his back pocket for long evenings spent listening to surf."

Yeah, like you could just come and plop your rear down wherever you like. I think they are missing on some rather important items. Besides hospitals, there is any modern shopping, immigration, and of course the lack of communication.
 
1. The joyfull and loving people of our village (except when trying to herd a small gang of smiling kids from our yard , it like herding a group of drunk kittens)

2 the warm and living ocean 2 blocks from our house

3 the cost of living that allows us to live well with our social sercuity check and small pension.

4 . The million of places in the region we want to visit and can.

5. Not having to work or be someplace on others timeline.

6 how doing little things can be a adventure. Wheather its taking a turn down a road just to see where it goes or eating off a cart where i have no idea what it is and finding out its great or never to eat that again.

Oh did i mention the people?
 
.... Marry an Indonesian, especially one with a big family, and they'll soon suck the independence, arrogance, contempt and savings out of you...and you'll end up very contented...but poor...:madgrin:

And the family will embrace you in such a way that you will be happy, even very happy, as your resources over time become family resources.

Actually, for us, in-flow still exceeds out-flow, without even counting the monetary value of goodwill. I am in good health, but understand that may not always be the case. If you look at the financial help provided to the family as a long term investment, the return, in terms of both value and later quality of life, is infinitely better than any long term care insurance package available in the States.

It sounds crass to express the experience as if part of some grand balance sheet, but I view help to the family as just another way of "paying it forward."
 
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A long time ago here in the United States I lived in duplex shared with my landlord, an old queen who liked to swim naked in our shared pool. Our rental agreement stipulated that we must be OK with public nudity, so it goes. He was a fascinating old coot, though. Every day he would light a small fire and sit and talk out by the pool. I asked him about his habits and he told me, "this is my television."

When I lived in Indonesia, I found that was my "television," too. There was nothing good on, Internet access was crap, there weren't very many good modern distractions. But there were people and stories and visitors and relatives who came whenever they wanted to. Sometimes it was annoying, but ultimately it was satisfying and fundamental and human. My time in Aceh helped me to become a better human not because life was somehow more civilized (often demonstrably not), but because I had fewer distractions and I had more human connections.

I don't want to romanticize kampung life. It's not really easy, locals can be judgmental and nosey, medical care and education are virtually nonexistent. But I think they got a certain human fundamental right, and I attribute that to the greater appearance (veneer?) of harmony I found. I don't know if people in Indonesia are happier than their American peers (I think so, personally), but they seem to be more content and live more satisfying lives.

As we grow older, when we don't have to worry about children's education, when I don't have to take care of my parents, we'll come back to retire. I can prioritize the human connection over a slow decline with modern medicine and living as a shell of myself.
 
When I lived in Indonesia, I found that was my "television," too. There was nothing good on, Internet access was crap, there weren't very many good modern distractions. But there were people and stories and visitors and relatives who came whenever they wanted to. Sometimes it was annoying, but ultimately it was satisfying and fundamental and human. My time in Aceh helped me to become a better human not because life was somehow more civilized (often demonstrably not), but because I had fewer distractions and I had more human connections.

I don't want to romanticize kampung life. It's not really easy, locals can be judgmental and nosey, medical care and education are virtually nonexistent. But I think they got a certain human fundamental right, and I attribute that to the greater appearance (veneer?) of harmony I found. I don't know if people in Indonesia are happier than their American peers (I think so, personally), but they seem to be more content and live more satisfying lives.

As we grow older, when we don't have to worry about children's education, when I don't have to take care of my parents, we'll come back to retire. I can prioritize the human connection over a slow decline with modern medicine and living as a shell of myself.

Hi Dan that was very good. I am interested in some of the "reasons" that you think Indonesians could generally be happier, or live more satisfying lives. I know you talked about less distractions, and more focus on relationships. Do you think, in the US, there is more individualism, materialism, narcissism.....? And/or other things? More time in Indonesia to not miss the more important aspects of life. I remember listening to some Harvard psychologist, on t.v., and they were discussing happiness. There had been a study done and some country in Europe came in #1. They reviewed some factors and the psychologist reported in the States a different ethos. He said it was more being #1 and by this he meant who had the most or biggest stuff. What are your thoughts?
 
Good idea Dan. I'm going to build a small fire and sit nude next to a shared pool and enjoy life. I'm sure others will understand that it is my space and they don't need to enter it.
 
Good idea Dan. I'm going to build a small fire and sit nude next to a shared pool and enjoy life. I'm sure others will understand that it is my space and they don't need to enter it.

Ha ha ha that is funny. But you may be on to something fastpitch. Maybe this part will catch on?
 
Good idea Dan. I'm going to build a small fire and sit nude next to a shared pool and enjoy life. I'm sure others will understand that it is my space and they don't need to enter it.


Funny to read this right now ... we just had the bright idea of switching the direction of the lock on the door to the pool, so that instead of locking people into the garden/pool, we can now lock people out and guarantee that no one can come in unexpectedly should we choose to swim au naturel. Now, if only there were an equally easy way to make the water warm...
 
I never sleep in anything but my skin...only ever used PJ's when I was an RAF cadet sleeping in barracks so being au naturel is also our de riguer in our pool. That's until my wife recently decided to refresh the water with some chlorine, as she said... 'just in case'.....without realizing the pool-boy had serviced the pool that morning.

Members will be pleased to know my itchy-rash has nearly cleared-up...except for the exposed groin areas....:embarassed:
 
To be honest I don't understand why some people who are saying: cheaper living cost as to what keeps them here. There are plenty places in Europe where you can still live on the same level of living cost as in Indonesia while having "not to worry" life style at the same time (eg. my own home country). In fact I know plenty of British people who are living in Spain (weather and lower living cost-for them it is cheaper and better).

Something exotic Canarian Islands, Mallorca, European part of Turkey. Who knows maybe Russia near Caspian Sea, Black Sea? To extreme want to be cheap and EUROPEAN - Slovenia - close to Italy and Austria.

I would understand however: Better paid job/or simply job as one of the criteria for what keeps them/us in Indonesia. Adventure, international experience with focus on SEA area ect, business, Indonesian spouse.
 
A long time ago here in the United States I lived in duplex shared with my landlord, an old queen who liked to swim naked in our shared pool. Our rental agreement stipulated that we must be OK with public nudity, so it goes. He was a fascinating old coot, though. Every day he would light a small fire and sit and talk out by the pool. I asked him about his habits and he told me, "this is my television."

When I lived in Indonesia, I found that was my "television," too. There was nothing good on, Internet access was crap, there weren't very many good modern distractions. But there were people and stories and visitors and relatives who came whenever they wanted to. Sometimes it was annoying, but ultimately it was satisfying and fundamental and human. My time in Aceh helped me to become a better human not because life was somehow more civilized (often demonstrably not), but because I had fewer distractions and I had more human connections.

I don't want to romanticize kampung life. It's not really easy, locals can be judgmental and nosey, medical care and education are virtually nonexistent. But I think they got a certain human fundamental right, and I attribute that to the greater appearance (veneer?) of harmony I found. I don't know if people in Indonesia are happier than their American peers (I think so, personally), but they seem to be more content and live more satisfying lives.

As we grow older, when we don't have to worry about children's education, when I don't have to take care of my parents, we'll come back to retire. I can prioritize the human connection over a slow decline with modern medicine and living as a shell of myself.

The jury is still out, but I do detect a great deal of growth and its more than the fact I find myself agreeing with your views quite often, these days. Your last paragraph, could describes the path we are on.
 
To be honest I don't understand why some people who are saying: cheaper living cost as to what keeps them here. There are plenty places in Europe where you can still live on the same level of living cost as in Indonesia while having "not to worry" life style at the same time (eg. my own home country). In fact I know plenty of British people who are living in Spain (weather and lower living cost-for them it is cheaper and better).

Something exotic Canarian Islands, Mallorca, European part of Turkey. Who knows maybe Russia near Caspian Sea, Black Sea? To extreme want to be cheap and EUROPEAN - Slovenia - close to Italy and Austria.

I would understand however: Better paid job/or simply job as one of the criteria for what keeps them/us in Indonesia. Adventure, international experience with focus on SEA area ect, business, Indonesian spouse.

You must be comparing Jakarta Prices. Housing prices be you buy or rent are 3 to 4 times higher then most other cities in Indonesia. Food cost unless you need your Western make from the box stuffs is definitely lower. While beef prices are comparable the quality here is lower but with a little work, that can be fixed for the individual taste. Travel is cheaper and transportation is cheaper unless you need that big fancy car with a driver to help make you look important. I live off Social Security and a very small pension. Even so, I can save money every month. That isn't going to happen elsewhere besides some other SE Asian nations. Thailand, not as cheap. Vietnam, a bit cheaper but since it is industrializing with foreign companies coming in, I see that going the way of China with demands for higher wages and a middle class being built.
 
Sorry to Puspawarna and Davita but the requirement is: must be a "shared pool". I am not sure about the must be sitting in front of fire requirement though.
 
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You must be comparing Jakarta Prices. Housing prices be you buy or rent are 3 to 4 times higher then most other cities in Indonesia. Food cost unless you need your Western make from the box stuffs is definitely lower. While beef prices are comparable the quality here is lower but with a little work, that can be fixed for the individual taste. Travel is cheaper and transportation is cheaper unless you need that big fancy car with a driver to help make you look important. I live off Social Security and a very small pension. Even so, I can save money every month. That isn't going to happen elsewhere besides some other SE Asian nations. Thailand, not as cheap. Vietnam, a bit cheaper but since it is industrializing with foreign companies coming in, I see that going the way of China with demands for higher wages and a middle class being built.

I have absolutely no clue how from my post you came to talking about Jakarta's prices but who knows maybe someone else can think the same way as you can.

As for transportation I agree it is cheaper .... (or maybe it is not?) in Indonesia but no surprise here with subsidised fuel from their own oil fields. On the other hand the poor infrastructure is going to make you take 2-3 times more fuel for the same distance (that you would made in Europe) not to mention waiting in horrendous traffic jams on their motorways. Bus fares are the same, shuttle travel cost are the same (Bandung-Jakarta on distance/km). We have no angots, becaks, ojeg/k ect so I cannot compare it.

What else.... food... Western (again who said anything about western food). Most important what is a western food? Would food from Ukraine, Slovakia be western food? Are you talking about food cooked at home, in restaurant or in general?
Are we comparing something like egg, rice + salt to potatoes/bread with egg and/without salt? What is box stuffs?

I find it very strange that people when they hear word "Europe" start to think about expensive Germany, France, UK, Italy ect.... the rest of the continent is blank map in their brain or maybe they think it is not Europe anymore.

This is EOT from me. FP if you want to continue this conversation please set up separate thread in the cage. I can continue discussing food and beef prices vs here in Indonesia.
 
Sorry to Puspawarna and Davita but the requirement is: must be a "shared pool". I am not sure about the must be sitting in front of fire requirement though.

Quick way to get 'roasted chestnuts by the fire'.

back to subject...I don't know many who are permanently living in Indonesia who aren't connected to RI either by job or spouse.
 

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