What happened following the Raid on Blok M.?

[ukcouple]

Does anyone have any follow-up on what happened after the immigration raid on Blok M a couple of months ago.?

What happened was.. a few guys were having a quiet drink in one of the bars in Blok M and immigration shows up to check documents.

It seems most had photocopied their passports and other documents to use as ID. Not enough it seems.. only the originals were acceptable. (strictly speaking that is in fact the law.)

The infractors who included KITAS and KITAP holders were arrested and detained at the Immigration office under threat of massive fines.

But .. there the news coverage ends.! We hear no more about what happened next.. at least not as far as i know.

This is a subject which greatly impacts the expat community and should be of great interest. What documentation to carry around etc... but no follow up.?

Anybody got any info.?

 

[William King]

Actually the law is not that you need carry passport around, just that you use must produce it when required.

The grey area is how long do you have before producing it... immediately or may you go home to get it etc.

But I have no news either. Sorry.

 

[CaturMuka]

Actually the law is not that you need carry passport around, just that you use must produce it when required.

Can anyone point us to the actual written law to confirm this?

It's always bothered me that I could possibly be arrested for not carrying my passport on my person 24/7.

 

[William King]

Law No.6 of 2011 on Immigration. Article 71(b) of the law states that every foreigner present in Indonesia is obliged to: “Show and submit any travel document or stay permit they possess when required to do so by an active Immigration officer in the interests of Immigration control."



https://www.google.co.id/url?sa=t&s...gg-MAc&usg=AFQjCNHC_WfB8oq_5j0NBNVFrY5fiLzX1A

 

[CaturMuka]

Thanks William. Here's the same thing in Indonesian (and here's a link to the PDF. http://www.hukumonline.com/pusatdata/downloadfile/lt4dd0e499bfbf9/parent/lt4dd0e447183ec):

Pasal 71 - Setiap Orang Asing yang berada di Wilayah Indonesia wajib:

b. memperlihatkan dan menyerahkan Dokumen Perjalanan atau Izin Tinggal yang dimilikinya apabila dimintaoleh Pejabat Imigrasi yang bertugas dalam rangka pengawasan Keimigrasian.

To me, your translation is correct. However, while its not specifically stated you must have them on you at all times, to my mind, saying that you must show AND hand over whatever document is requested, whenever the immigration officer deems that it is required, heavily implies that you need to carry your passport on you at all times . . . and I suppose any other travel document or permit too.

The optimist in me wants to believe that only people who hang around in dodgy areas and who don't carry any official ID (or only photocopies), would get caught up in a technicality like this. A fine, handsome and upstanding member of the community like myself, shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Minuteman]

The optimist in me wants to believe that only people who hang around in dodgy areas and who don't carry any official ID (or only photocopies), would get caught up in a technicality like this. A fine, handsome and upstanding member of the community like myself, shouldn't have any problems. [/QUOTE]

Not so...about 2 years ago, the immigration authorities came around to every foreigner's house here in Modernland at 9 PM and herded us all to a collecting point. Each one of us were sat down (had to wait our turn) and literally grilled in a rude manner.

 

[CaturMuka]

Not so...about 2 years ago, the immigration authorities came around to every foreigner's house here in Modernland at 9 PM and herded us all to a collecting point. Each one of us were sat down (had to wait our turn) and literally grilled in a rude manner.

Yeah, that's not great, but it's not unreasonable that you should be able to provide all your appropriate documents at your place of residence.

 

[ukcouple]

The optimist in me wants to believe that only people who hang around in dodgy areas and who don't carry any official ID (or only photocopies), would get caught up in a technicality like this...

So whats "dodgy" about having a quiet beer with your mates in a bar.?

Anyway.. the issue isn't confined to expats in bars. Sounds like in Modernland all expats were grilled.

 

[ukcouple]

..... it's not unreasonable that you should be able to provide all your appropriate documents at your place of residence.

If they were targeting those they had reason to suspect were breaking the law i would agree.. but it seems they targeted all expats.

 

[CaturMuka]

So whats "dodgy" about having a quiet beer with your mates in a bar.?

Nothing. I was just saying that's what I "want" to believe as there's no way I'm carrying my passport on me when I leave the house.

 

[dafluff]

The optimist in me wants to believe that only people who hang around in dodgy areas and who don't carry any official ID (or only photocopies), would get caught up in a technicality like this. A fine, handsome and upstanding member of the community like myself, shouldn't have any problems.

In my personal experience in Indonesia well over 16 years now, I have never had an immigration officer ask for any sort of document outside of the immigration office. Also I have not heard of an expat hangout place being raided for foreigners here in Bali, probably because that includes almost every single bar/club/pub/restaurant in south Bali.

I don't carry with me my passport, KITAS etc. Not even a photocopy. When I get KTP OA, I will probably carry that. If I get in trouble, I will be sure to post here as soon as they let me out of jail...

 

[Mas Mana]

Just to make sure I got the technical details right here:
Pasal 71 (b) states that foreigners are obliged to show and hand over either their travel document or their stay permit in these situations.
AFAIK, this means that the KITAS / KITAP holders in the example above were expected to carry and show the original cards, but would not have needed their passports, no matter if original or photocopies.
Including the rather new bebas visa status, there should be three general variations here:

1. You are a tourist on a visa free status
In this case you have to carry your passport with the entry stamp for that. To my understanding, the visa free status is technically not even considered an izin tinggal, so only the first part of "travel document or stay permit" would apply here.

2. You have a visit visa (izin tinggal kunjungan) of any kind (tourist, business, journo, etc.)
You have to carry your passport, as your izin tinggal is stamped into it. You will need it to comply with any of the two options that pasal 71 (b) offers here, as they are normally leading to the same document anyway - your passport.

3. You are living in Indonesia on an ITAS or ITAP
In this case, you have to show your physical stay permit card, your KITAS or KITAP, but your passport can safely rest at home or wherever you prefer store it. So you are complying with the second part of "travel document or stay permit" then.

Is my understanding in line with the knowledge and experience of others here?

 

[dafluff]

Just to make sure I got the technical details right here:
Pasal 71 (b) states that foreigners are obliged to show and hand over either their travel document or their stay permit in these situations.
AFAIK, this means that the KITAS / KITAP holders in the example above were expected to carry and show the original cards, but would not have needed their passports, no matter if original or photocopies.
Including the rather new bebas visa status, there should be three general variations here:

1. You are a tourist on a visa free status
In this case you have to carry your passport with the entry stamp for that. To my understanding, the visa free status is technically not even considered an izin tinggal, so only the first part of "travel document or stay permit" would apply here.

2. You have a visit visa (izin tinggal kunjungan) of any kind (tourist, business, journo, etc.)
You have to carry your passport, as your izin tinggal is stamped into it. You will need it to comply with any of the two options that pasal 71 (b) offers here, as they are normally leading to the same document anyway - your passport.

3. You are living in Indonesia on an ITAS or ITAP
In this case, you have to show your physical stay permit card, your KITAS or KITAP, but your passport can safely rest at home or wherever you prefer store it. So you are complying with the second part of "travel document or stay permit" then.

Is my understanding in line with the knowledge and experience of others here?

I concur with this assessment. In fact I think the only reason for the ITAS/ITAP card was so you could carry that with you instead of a passport.

 

[CaturMuka]

Pasal 71 (b) states that foreigners are obliged to show and hand over either their travel document or their stay permit in these situations.?

Thanks Mas Mana. That makes more sense. That single OR makes all the difference.

 

[Davita]

The article was vague over who should have been carrying what in the bar.
What but I'm told by a senior police officer that the original Kitas/Kitap is a requirement for those thus issued. We all know how expensive and difficult that is to replace so most prudent get it copied...but this seems to be the argument...they don't accept copies.

A KTP OA is easier to get, and inexpensive, and a KTP IS the ID for locals, although I've never heard yet of an e-KTP OA....anybody?

 

[William King]

The article was vague over who should have been carrying what in the bar.
What but I'm told by a senior police officer that the original Kitas/Kitap is a requirement for those thus issued. We all know how expensive and difficult that is to replace so most prudent get it copied...but this seems to be the argument...they don't accept copies.

Get an expensive & realistic copy made. Rather than lose the original.

 

[ukcouple]

I concur with this assessment. In fact I think the only reason for the ITAS/ITAP card was so you could carry that with you instead of a passport.

or a KTP OA for KITAP holders.? Does that qualify as a "stay permit" in this case.?

It may come down to what would be cheaper and easier to replace.. a ITAS/ITAP card or a KTP OP..

 

[ukcouple]

.....
What but I'm told by a senior police officer that the original Kitas/Kitap is a requirement for those thus issued. We all know how expensive and difficult that is to replace so most prudent get it copied...but this seems to be the argument...they don't accept copies......

Do you mean a police officer or an immigration official.?

I didn't realize the police had jurisdiction when it comes to checking OA documents. (other than driving licenses )

 

[Davita]

Do you mean a police officer or an immigration official.?

I didn't realize the police had jurisdiction when it comes to checking OA documents. (other than driving licenses )

Police in Indonesia, as in most countries, are multi-trained in all aspects of law and order which includes immigration.

 

[wanderer]

Police in Indonesia, as in most countries, are multi-trained in all aspects of law and order which includes immigration.

Thanks for that. Now I have to clean the coffee from my keyboard and monitor.