What happened following the Raid on Blok M.?

[Scooterindo]

As I said before on the original thread, Idul Fitri is now over so they'll go back to not giving a toss.

 

[godmachine12]

Just to make sure I got the technical details right here:
Pasal 71 (b) states that foreigners are obliged to show and hand over either their travel document or their stay permit in these situations.
AFAIK, this means that the KITAS / KITAP holders in the example above were expected to carry and show the original cards, but would not have needed their passports, no matter if original or photocopies.
Including the rather new bebas visa status, there should be three general variations here:

1. You are a tourist on a visa free status
In this case you have to carry your passport with the entry stamp for that. To my understanding, the visa free status is technically not even considered an izin tinggal, so only the first part of "travel document or stay permit" would apply here.

2. You have a visit visa (izin tinggal kunjungan) of any kind (tourist, business, journo, etc.)
You have to carry your passport, as your izin tinggal is stamped into it. You will need it to comply with any of the two options that pasal 71 (b) offers here, as they are normally leading to the same document anyway - your passport.

3. You are living in Indonesia on an ITAS or ITAP
In this case, you have to show your physical stay permit card, your KITAS or KITAP, but your passport can safely rest at home or wherever you prefer store it. So you are complying with the second part of "travel document or stay permit" then.

Is my understanding in line with the knowledge and experience of others here?

That's my understanding as well. It's crystal clear to me so why people are still carrying around photocopies in Jaksa and Blok M and shocked when the Immigration boys haul them off is beyond me.

 

[ukcouple]

.... why people are still carrying around photocopies in Jaksa and Blok M and shocked when the Immigration boys haul them off is beyond me.

1. obviously 'people' don't want to risk losing the originals. Getting a replacement of passport, kitas, kitap etc would probrably be a nightmare.

2. why single out Jaksa and Blok M .. the law would apply everywhere.

3. i think the issue is that despite the law referring to original documents, it has been the assumption of the expat community that photocopies would suffice. this is the first instance that i know of where people have been arrested for having photocopies instead of the original.

 

[godmachine12]

1. obviously 'people' don't want to risk losing the originals. Getting a replacement of passport, kitas, kitap etc would probrably be a nightmare.

It would be, but then again spending a night or two in an immigration holding cell and for sure paying a bribe to be released, for me anyway, is worth the hassle.

2. why single out Jaksa and Blok M .. the law would apply everywhere.

It would, yes. That said, which do you reckon is more likely to be hit with a raid: the boozers in Jaksa and Blok M or Pondok Indah Mall? PIM is used merely as an example.

3. i think the issue is that despite the law referring to original documents, it has been the assumption of the expat community that photocopies would suffice. this is the first instance that i know of where people have been arrested for having photocopies instead of the original.

It's an assumption that may have been (well forget ‘may have been’, it used to be) true in the past, but quite obviously isn't any more.

I don't like any of this nonsense either, and a lot of it I don't agree with, but we live here. If you choose to openly and willingly disregard the rules, you'll eventually suffer the consequences.

 

[godmachine12]

As I said before on the original thread, Idul Fitri is now over so they'll go back to not giving a toss.

Until next year comes around…

 

[ukcouple]

... which do you reckon is more likely to be hit with a raid: the boozers in Jaksa and Blok M or Pondok Indah Mall? PIM is used merely as an example.

Well.. seems that's the price one pays for being a "boozer". It will surely affect business at the "boozer" hangouts though. Bad news for those wanting a innocent beer in Blok M at 3 am in the morning.

(Having said that there have been raids on some apartment blocks in jakarta recently so no one is immune.)

 

[Tupai Hitam]

Until next year comes around…

Judging by recent form and anti-foreigner rhetoric, perhaps we can expect more occasional raids by Immigration's zealous teams of Satgas PORA (Foreigner Control task forces). But probably not in places where diplomats congregate, although a former Papua New Guinean ambassador and a top Russian diplomat used to be regular visitors to Blok M.

 

[nd_eric_77]

... (Having said that there have been raids on some apartment blocks in jakarta recently so no one is immune.)

The difference is that one can easily produce one's original passport & kitas if they visit one's apartment. FWIW, I still carry only photocopies of each, and am willing to provide originals if the officials bring me by my house following a raid. A friend lost his original KITAS, and after watching all the time & effort it took him to recover it, I consider it to be a worthwhile risk to just carry photocopies.

 

[harryopal1]

In August last in Australia the black uniform, gun toting Border Protection people, formerly known as Immigration Department, announced they were going to do random spot checks of people in the city of Melbourne for proper IDs of anyone thought to be a migrant or visitor.
Australian Border Force (ABF) officers will check people's visas on the streets of Melbourne this weekendas part of a police operation in the city's CBD, the Federal Government has revealed.
[h=2]Key points:[/h]

• Border Force officers to check visas in Melbourne's CBD
• The agency says people will not be targeted on the basis of race or religion
• Part of a broader operation including Victoria Police and other agencies
• Lawyer says Border Force involvement is "unprecedented"

Officers will be positioned at various locations around the city and will speak "with any individual we cross paths with", ABF regional commander for Victoria and Tasmania Don Smith said in a statement.
"You need to be aware of the conditions of your visa; if you commit visa fraud you should know it's only a matter of time before you're caught out," he said.
The statement said officers would work with "a diverse team of transport and enforcement agencies to target crime" in the CBD as part of Operation Fortitude.
"Tonight and tomorrow evening (Friday and Saturday) Metro Trains, Yarra Trams, the Sheriff's Office, Taxi Services Commission and the ABF will join Victoria Police as part of the inter-agency operation," the statement said.
"With a particular focus on people travelling to, from and around the CBD, the group of agencies will work together to support the best interests of Melburnians, targeting everything from anti-social behaviour to outstanding warrants."

Happily there was a huge outcry and the department backed off.

A major multi-agency operation, which was to involve visa checks by Australian Border Force officers, has been cancelled and labelled "a shambles" amid snap protests and social media uproar.
Dubbed 'Operation Fortitude' it was cancelled by lead agency the Victorian Police on Friday afternoon, after conflicting messages were issued by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection suggesting it would involve spot check of peoples' visa status in Melbourne's CBD.
The events have angered the Victorian government, with Police Minister Wade Noonan saying the Border Force's statement as "unfortunate and inappropriate", and allowed federal Labor to issue yet another attack on the Abbott government.

"To be clear, the ABF does not and will not stop people at random in the streets...The ABF does not target on the basis of race, religion or ethnicity," the spokesperson said.
In one of these social media posts, the Border Force said their officers would check the visas of those referred to them."

I suspect it is in the nature of all security forces to be forever pushing at the edges to gain more power. Unless their is a monetery impact on tourism these kind of operations will continue.I




Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/bo...d-amid-protests-20150828-gja3xm#ixzz4HkTtAArZ
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[godmachine12]

Well.. seems that's the price one pays for being a "boozer". It will surely affect business at the "boozer" hangouts though. Bad news for those wanting a innocent beer in Blok M at 3 am in the morning.

(Having said that there have been raids on some apartment blocks in jakarta recently so no one is immune.)

Well.. seems that's the price one pays for being a "boozer". It will surely affect business at the "boozer" hangouts though. Bad news for those wanting a innocent beer in Blok M at 3 am in the morning.

(Having said that there have been raids on some apartment blocks in jakarta recently so no one is immune.)

Not shy of a scarce quote or three, are you? I believe someone has already written this, but at least if the Immigration officers visit your residence, you'll most likely be able to produce the required documents. Far different than if your ten deep down at Top Gun on Saturday evening. Most people just hear Blok M and the connotations are immediate: you get up to no good there. Right or wrong, that's how it is. I used to occasionally visit Blok M for a few, but rarely at the weekend. I'd usually pop in early afternoon on a Monday after work before heading home. It's not all dodgy business in The Blok. Jaksa isn't either. If I'm that way, Papa's never fails to provide a few cold Anker's and at least someone to chat with.

Someone has posted another thread about foreigners being asked to produce the SKTT in Bandung, not having it and being fined 100,000 on the spot. I think the lesson to be learnt is that if you are (everyone in general) going to stay in Indonesia is to educate yourself about what you need in regards to legal documents, learn the laws so you're not taken advantage of (this happens far too often and while the person carrying out the offence is to blame, the person who hasn't got a clue is as well) and get your shit together for lack of a better phrase. Living here is a headache at times. However, if you play by the rules, more often than not you won't have any problems. That's my experience anyway.

 

[R Cameron]

In August last in Australia the black uniform, gun toting Border Protection people, formerly known as Immigration Department, announced they were going to do random spot checks of people in the city of Melbourne for proper IDs of anyone thought to be a migrant or visitor.

Sounds almost like Arizona's troubled immigration law passed a few years back, requiring police to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant during any legal encounter, even if they are not suspect of any other crime! And let's be honest, "suspect" is mostly related to skin color and accent. A quick google search tells me the law is still in effect and being enforced.

 

[ukcouple]

Most people just hear Blok M and the connotations are immediate: you get up to no good there. Right or wrong, that's how it is.

No.. sorry.. most people do not make the connotations you do.

Most people associate Blok M with the Bus Terminal, Blok M Mall, Pasaraya.. etc.

You obviously have a different agenda. Nothing wrong with that and each to his own.

Just curious.. where were you "popping into" in Blok M on a Monday afternoon. Top Gun doesn't open till the evening.

 

[Puspawarna]

Not shy of a scarce quote or three, are you?

May I borrow a "c"? It looks like you have one you ould spare, and I need it for this sentence.

 

[Tupai Hitam]

No.. sorry.. most people do not make the connotations you do.

Some cab drivers do (if you're an unaccompanied male). Last time I got in a taxi and asked the driver to take me "to Blok M" he responded: "Jalan Falatehan, ya? Mister suka cewek Indonesia?" He seemed disappointed when I said I wanted to visit the second-hand book vendors in the basement of Blok M Square to buy some comics.

 

[Scooterindo]

No.. sorry.. most people do not make the connotations you do.

Most people associate Blok M with the Bus Terminal, Blok M Mall, Pasaraya.. etc.

The only connotation Blok M has for me these days is horrific traffic and pollution from the buses.

 

[sumyunggai]

No.. sorry.. most people do not make the connotations you do.

Most people associate Blok M with the Bus Terminal

I am a thousand miles away, and it is here synonymous with prostitution.

Certainly not buses. What nonsense.

 

[ukcouple]

... it is here synonymous with prostitution.

No it's not.

you're a thousand miles away and probably never been there.

 

[William King]

You're both right, so how about we agree that 50% of folk think of the mall and buses and the other 50% think you were referring to girls.

 

[Tupai Hitam]

I am a thousand miles away, and it is here synonymous with prostitution.

Certainly not buses. What nonsense.

I think the vast majority of Jakarta residents would associate Blok M with the eponymous bus terminus. It's start/end of the line for the city's busiest busway corridor, carrying about 69,000 passengers daily. It also has lanes for buses serving about 30 other routes. When commuters see the name "Blok M" they probably don't think "prostitution".
To me, Blok M means "cheap comics and rare books" in the basement of Blok M Square.
It's the name "Falatehan" that tends to be more synonymous with prostitution.

 

[sumyunggai]

No it's not.

you're a thousand miles away and probably never been there.

I've not been there, but wow would you know what people call it???

Here people refer to the local brothels as 'Blok M', in homage to the nationally infamous Jakarta Blok M.