Vitamin supplements: suggestions/feedback

[centurion]

Great argument to encourage outdoor nudity in Indonesia.

As it was till recently...topless women and Javanise men with sarongs and upper half naked.

 

[pantaiema]

Good morning!
I'm not anti-vitamins and I take a basic multivitamin (centrum bought in the EU, I am not sure I trust local ones...maybe I shouldnt be so silly about that) a couple of times per week but this was interesting:

ZOE Podcast: The Truth About Vitamin Supplements

In this episode, Jonathan speaks with Prof. JoAnn Manson and Dr. Sarah Berry to better understand how vitamin supplements affect our health.

joinzoe.com

The link has the transcript if you dont like listening. I found it an interesting podcast. I listen to Zoe regularly and they are sensible/ responsible doctors/ scientists/ researchers (no wild theories/ conspiracy crap).

They are scientists and experts in their field so they have knowledge to what they are talking about but as an opening discussion JoAnn is just stating the obvious

JoAnn Manson: It's not essential if you have a healthy and balanced diet, and vitamin and mineral supplements will never be a substitute for a healthy diet.

Also, just to add, if you exceed the daily dose, you might experience the negative effects of an overdose. It is a general knowledge that supplements will never be able to replace what occurs naturally in your body. They are called supplement for a reason.

Or she answer brilliantly it without taking an extreme view when she was asked if it was a scam.
[00:02:56] JoAnn Manson: No, I don't think it's a total scam. However, it has to be targeted and appropriate use, which we'll get into in more detail.

You get scammed when you allow that to happen to you, failing to conduct your own due diligence and blindly following advice from individuals you consider experts. There are numerous generic multi-vitamin products, brands available in the market. They are very cheap. Nowadays, almost everyone can afford them. So, what scam are we talking about here? Who would be very naive to fund such a scam, campaign, advertising just to allow other players to get a free ride?

Also think about formula milk for babies. It is not the same with breast feeding but some people need it and do the job to some extents.

 

[Samoerai]

It's not essential if you have a healthy and balanced diet, and vitamin and mineral supplements will never be a substitute for a healthy diet.

I agree .. i benefit from fresh ginger and kunjit in my tea, kayu manis in my coffee and fresh blue berries and bananas in my yogurt. But sometimes one doesn't have time to prepare those ingredients and then supplements are just handy.

 

[xplorsky89]

I know even in the US there are problems with some supplement producers, the actual contents of the pills do not match what's on the label. The best bet is to get third-party certified labels. I doubt it exists here. When I was in Thailand my preference was Blackmores - they are Australian made as far as I know, and Australia generally has strong government regulation, so presumably a better chance companies there actually put in the pill what they say they do. But that's just my general thinking, unfortunately I know nothing about Indonesian brands.

 

[fastpitch17]

I know even in the US there are problems with some supplement producers, the actual contents of the pills do not match what's on the label. The best bet is to get third-party certified labels. I doubt it exists here. When I was in Thailand my preference was Blackmores - they are Australian made as far as I know, and Australia generally has strong government regulation, so presumably a better chance companies there actually put in the pill what they say they do. But that's just my general thinking, unfortunately I know nothing about Indonesian brands.

On line shops in Shopee and Tokopedia carry Blackmore vitamins.

 

[Shadrach]

This has been a problem for a long time now. Every year more and more supplements have been offered to the public, until it's totally confusing.
The root of this problem is we have forgotten how to eat healthy. If we had access to healthy nutritious fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, and relearned how to prepare and cook meals properly, we would not need to take so many supplements.
From my travels around SE Asia, my eyes have been opened to a fantastic new way of eating. What I like about the variety of food from these region is how so many traditional herbs, spices, roots, greens, products from the Sea, are incorporated in everyday cooking. If we all ate more healthy, it would make our bodies stronger, which would slow down our needs for supplements and so many doctor visits.

 

[marcus]

... wonder if any of you have feedback re: these brands which my local apotek normally sells:
Sakatonik for children's supplements
Imboost for adult's supplements
I'm just looking at multivitamins at the moment.

I just checked the Imboost at Shopee and saw that it is relatively expensive . From what I saw in the past , in general (except few vitamins like vitamin C) multivitamins produced in Indonesia are more expensive than similar imported .

I have been buying imported Kirkland Mature Multi (400 tb) for me & wife and Daily Multi (500 tb) for the kids .

 

[marcus]

... at the age of about 20 and became a vegetarian...
At the age of 84 I have never had a doctor suggest I am vitamin deficient so never got into supplements...

From https://genv.org/vitamins-for-vegetarians/
Title : Vitamins for Vegetarians: How To Know If You Need Vitamins? - Apr 2021
..........
Conclusion
Vegan and vegetarian diets are completely safe and supplements are usually only required in the case of deficiencies. Vitamin B12 is the only vitamin that must be consumed from either fortified foods several times a day or by a supplement,...
A simple blood test will tell you all you need to know and you can begin planning all the vitamin rich additions you can make to your diet...

-----------------------------------------

From https://www.consumerlab.com/answers...egetarians-and-vegans/vegetarians-and-vegans/
Title : Top 8 vitamins and nutrients for vegetarians and vegans
Written by Meredith Worthington, Ph.D. — Medically reviewed and edited by Tod Cooperman, M.D. , updated Oct 2024

Some vitamins and nutrients are found in abundant quantities in meat, poultry and fish but not in plant-based foods (unless they have been "fortified," i.e., nutrients have been added). For this reason, vegetarian or vegan diets may not meet all the daily nutrient requirements, and supplements may be necessary. This may occur with vitamins B-12 and D, iron, zinc, calcium, iodine, long-chain omega-3 fatty acids and, possibly, protein...

 

[harryopal1]

They are scientists and experts in their field so they have knowledge to what they are talking about but as an opening discussion JoAnn is just stating the obvious

JoAnn Manson: It's not essential if you have a healthy and balanced diet, and vitamin and mineral supplements will never be a substitute for a healthy diet.

Also, just to add, if you exceed the daily dose, you might experience the negative effects of an overdose. It is a general knowledge that supplements will never be able to replace what occurs naturally in your body. They are called supplement for a reason.

Or she answer brilliantly it without taking an extreme view when she was asked if it was a scam.
[00:02:56] JoAnn Manson: No, I don't think it's a total scam. However, it has to be targeted and appropriate use, which we'll get into in more detail.

You get scammed when you allow that to happen to you, failing to conduct your own due diligence and blindly following advice from individuals you consider experts. There are numerous generic multi-vitamin products, brands available in the market. They are very cheap. Nowadays, almost everyone can afford them. So, what scam are we talking about here? Who would be very naive to fund such a scam, campaign, advertising just to allow other players to get a free ride?

Also think about formula milk for babies. It is not the same with breast feeding but some people need it and do the job to some extents.

Thanks for the link. Most interesting. About 66 years ago I became seriously interested in health issues and became a vegetarian. In Melbourne there was a Sanitarium vegetarian eating placed to which I used to go. They had shelves of supplements and vitamins and it struck me at the time that all the supposed benefits can be found in natural foods so I never did get into the vitamin pill popping habit.

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for the link. Most interesting. About 66 years ago I became seriously interested in health issues and became a vegetarian. In Melbourne there was a Sanitarium vegetarian eating placed to which I used to go. They had shelves of supplements and vitamins and it struck me at the time that all the supposed benefits can be found in natural foods so I never did get into the vitamin pill popping habit.

Exactly what I just said today! I was just behind you. I remember when the Hippie movement started and people started going to India and coming back with the new vegetarian diet, I thought why not. I tried some free meals from the Hari Krisna kitchens and loved it. I found there were many ways of getting a sufficient amount of protein without eating meat.
I went back to eating meat, but now I am much more conscious of balancing my diet with proteins, carbs, starches, etc. I found I loved all types of food.
One thing I found very important for me, was to not overeat. And eat small amounts of sugars.
I say if what you eat feels right, and you have plenty of energy, and are rarely sick, you are doing OK. But due to my being older and the food produced nowadays lacking much nutrition, I take vitamin supplements, Vitamin C,,B, D, K2, and some zinc and magnesium. I do not do this daily though, I'm too lazy! And I hate popping pills!

 

[serious_fun]

As it happens, a Shoppee delivery just arrived a few moments ago (in the rain) with my order of supplements.

I'm using NOW Foods supplements since I've been using them for years (via iHerb). The price is fair on Shoppee. We buy vitamin C locally at Kimia Farma outlets.

 

[kripik-pisang]

They are scientists and experts in their field so they have knowledge to what they are talking about but as an opening discussion JoAnn is just stating the obvious

JoAnn Manson: It's not essential if you have a healthy and balanced diet, and vitamin and mineral supplements will never be a substitute for a healthy diet.

Also, just to add, if you exceed the daily dose, you might experience the negative effects of an overdose. It is a general knowledge that supplements will never be able to replace what occurs naturally in your body. They are called supplement for a reason.

Or she answer brilliantly it without taking an extreme view when she was asked if it was a scam.
[00:02:56] JoAnn Manson: No, I don't think it's a total scam. However, it has to be targeted and appropriate use, which we'll get into in more detail.

You get scammed when you allow that to happen to you, failing to conduct your own due diligence and blindly following advice from individuals you consider experts. There are numerous generic multi-vitamin products, brands available in the market. They are very cheap. Nowadays, almost everyone can afford them. So, what scam are we talking about here? Who would be very naive to fund such a scam, campaign, advertising just to allow other players to get a free ride?

Also think about formula milk for babies. It is not the same with breast feeding but some people need it and do the job to some extents.

Interesting where Dr Sarah Berry points out that when you take vitamins that you don't need, those that are above the level that the body can utilize, which seems to be most of the excess, all you are doing is overworking the body because it then has to get rid of them, so it isn't without consequences.

 

[kripik-pisang]

The oldest woman in the world a decade or so ago was a French woman who still smoked at the age of about 129. So on that basis surely scientists should be recommending smoking for every body.

 

[pantaiema]

The oldest woman in the world a decade or so ago was a French woman who still smoked at the age of about 129. So on that basis surely scientists should be recommending smoking for every body.

That's an odd way to reach a conclusion! How many people like this.? And what would be the impact if she wasn't smoking?

 

[kripik-pisang]

"what would be the impact if she wasn't smoking" That's not scientific, its hypothetical.

 

[Hawk256]

Native Americans smoked pure tobacco all their lives and lived to old ages.

 

[harryopal1]

"what would be the impact if she wasn't smoking" That's not scientific, its hypothetical.

It may be hypothetical in this particular case but there is no shortage of studies that show that cigarette smoking is associated with shorter lifespans and a host of disease problems many of which involve serious pain.

 

[kripik-pisang]

Native Americans smoked pure tobacco all their lives and lived to old ages.

Exactly, French people did the same until American tobacco companies bombarded them into smoking blonde tobacco instead of Gauloises or Gitanes, which were made of unadulterated brown tobacco with zero chemicals, unlike Marlboro which contained 10% chemicals. All of those additives were licensed as food additives. They had never been tested for smoking. That's what caused most of the cancer. I worked with 2 85-year old French guys who smoked, but never coughed or suffered any other detriment.

 

[kripik-pisang]

It may be hypothetical in this particular case but there is no shortage of studies that show that cigarette smoking is associated with shorter lifespans and a host of disease problems many of which involve serious pain.

Of course if you only do studies of cigarettes that are full of additives, you will get that result.

 

[kripik-pisang]

The wonderful scientists also made the ridiculous claim that secondary smoking was worse than actual smoking. Fortunately it was quickly debunked but some people still believe it.