Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

[Missnaughty]

Do you have a medical degree?

No. As the ones who ask for vaccine to be mandatory also those who do not have medical degree. And they imprisoned people with medical degree that opposed mandatory vaccine.

So far (through the news), qualified people (supposedly with science & medical knowledge) keep changing their words and vague statements. This for example : they use “most” and likely”…. Is it yes or no?

Most of the World's Vaccines Likely Won't Prevent Infection From Omicron

A growing body of preliminary research suggests the COVID vaccines used in most of the world offer almost no defense against becoming infected by the highly contagious omicron variant. All vaccines still seem to provide a significant degree of protection against serious illness from omicron...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Missnaughty]

Certain people make it a big deal of mandatory vaccine, so people like Sarah Palin became a big news. If all being sensible, provided by proper information, no mandatory vaccine, no bad name calling for the unvaccinated, majority of people will take vaccine without controversy. We all used to vaccination. Let people decide for themselves. And really blaming the unvaccinated is stupid. Covid will be around forever.. and it will keep mutating with or without vaccine. Omicron is the proof.

Fauci Warns Omicron Is ‘Raging Through the World’ as Sarah Palin Preaches Resistance to Vaccine Pressure

"It'll be over my dead body that I'll have to get a shot," the former Republican vice presidential candidate said

www.yahoo.com

 

[Balifrog]

Do you have a medical degree?

The question was about common sense and logic.....

Take the UK, first class developped country with a pretty decent healthcare system (NHS). 70% of population double jabbed with the "miraclr vaccine" that was gonna solve all the problems.
Still they suffer one of the worst new wave of infection in Europe ?
Of course one would need a bit more details (but not necesarily a medical degree) about :

• the profile of the population tested positive (age, medical condition, walk in patients or random tested, etc...)
• the total number of tests done compared with previous weeks, this would allow to see if there is a variation in the positivity rate

But still, one may wonder, how a 1st class country, with a decent healtcare system, a highly vaccinated population, having gone several times through the lockdown, confinement, masks, distancing things still after 2 years has seen no progress or improvement in battling Covid19 ?

So, YES, a critical mind is allowed to ask questions !

And I have ONE accusation : why nearly all governments, scientifics and Big Pharma has been selling us this vaccine as the miracle solution when THEY KNEW SINCE THE START IT WAS NOT ?

Why didn't they honestly say " the vaccine will in the vast majority of cases prevent you from becoming very, or critically ill, and so it will avoid our hospital system to be overrun, but be aware that it does not protect you from catching the virus, and therefore it does not avoid you spreading the virus".

Did they consider that the average Joe was too stupid too understand / accept that ? I don't think so.
Their motivation was political (dont want to be one day accused of doing nothing) and for Big Pharma, of course it was $$$

One day, maybe in 5 or 10 years, deep investigations will be done into this matter and some dirty stuff will come out.

Meanwhile, for the fearfull : get your vaccine(s) (final number to be confirmed..) but dont come claim you are saving the world, and dont attack people who have different opinions.
Democracy, freedom of expression, and freedom of movement have been BIG victims of this Covigedon madness ! And those have been sacrificed for nothing as we are not (or barely) better off than 2 years ago.

 

[Ruserious]

I have multiple family members in the UK hit in this new wave. All double vaccinated.

Most importantly none of the them are very sick, they all have mild flu symptoms. I feel like we keep repeating this again and again. It is not a miracle cure but it certainly is helping.

 

[Missnaughty]

This is maybe a good news for everyone. Those who has vaccinated need to get a breakthrough infection. Don’t get booster yet. Get the virus. I am not being sarcastic, this is my genuine opinion. Maybe it’s about time for everyone to get the omicron.

COVID-19 Infection After Vaccine May Create ‘Super Immunity,' Study Finds

People who contract a breakthrough infection after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine may acquire a “super immunity” to the virus, researchers from the Oregon Health & Science University found. A study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, revealed antibodies in...

www.nbcchicago.com

 

[Balifrog]

I have multiple family members in the UK hit in this new wave. All double vaccinated.

Most importantly none of the them are very sick, they all have mild flu symptoms. I feel like we keep repeating this again and again. It is not a miracle cure but it certainly is helping.

Agreed, that's why we should count the hospitalized and deaths, not the "positives"

 

[Missnaughty]

I have multiple family members in the UK hit in this new wave. All double vaccinated.

Most importantly none of the them are very sick, they all have mild flu symptoms. I feel like we keep repeating this again and again. It is not a miracle cure but it certainly is helping.

Aunty TH in the senior living was tested positive for Covid19 antibody. She didn’t realised she had covid. Aunty TH was 90. This was in the late 2020, before vaccine. She passed away few months ago. She lived in the UK.

As many experienced mild symptoms or no symptoms… it is difficult to see the efficacy of the vaccine in real life.

 

[El_Goretto]

As many experienced mild symptoms or no symptoms… it is difficult to see the efficacy of the vaccine in real life.

Nevermind that the widely available data showing that most serious hospitalizations and deaths are amongst the non-vaccinated says otherwise.

This is maybe a good news for everyone. Those who has vaccinated need to get a breakthrough infection. Don’t get booster yet. Get the virus. I am not being sarcastic, this is my genuine opinion. Maybe it’s about time for everyone to get the omicron.

COVID-19 Infection After Vaccine May Create ‘Super Immunity,' Study Finds

People who contract a breakthrough infection after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine may acquire a “super immunity” to the virus, researchers from the Oregon Health & Science University found. A study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, revealed antibodies in...

www.nbcchicago.com

So you are against injecting a weakened virus as a vaccine but you are for getting sick with the full virus. Great logic here!

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Agreed, that's why we should count the hospitalized and deaths, not the "positives"

I have to agree. Counting numbers of infections at this point doesn't make much sense. Deaths and hospitalizations barely seem to be changing, which is the key thing.

I just checked the number of deaths in South Africa yesterday, the epicenter of the new Omicron wave which started over a month ago there.

There were 3 deaths yesterday

 

[dafluff]

Get the virus. I am not being sarcastic, this is my genuine opinion.

So now you're giving medical opinions? I'm going to need to see your credentials.

 

[Balifrog]

Nevermind that the widely available data showing that most serious hospitalizations and deaths are amongst the non-vaccinated says otherwise

Not systematically true, depends on many factors.

Look at the figures in Israel, a highly vaccinated country.

Daily COVID cases hit two-month high, with over 800 people diagnosed Thursday | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

"The ministry added that 92 of the 134 cases were in people who were considered “protected” with either a booster shot, two doses in the last six months or recently recovered. It did not say how severe their cases were."

In fact it is basic math, knowing that the virus "jumps" indistinctively on vaxed or non vaxed people, if your population is vaxed at 80% you will have more vaxed positive than non vaxed, for the simple reason the vaxed represent 80% of the population.

Then again, the socio economic environment comes in play as well.
You have more cases in the Bronx than in the upper NY classes.

Plenty studies showing the racial / minorities / socio economic influence.

 

[El_Goretto]

Not systematically true, depends on many factors.

Look at the figures in Israel, a highly vaccinated country.

Daily COVID cases hit two-month high, with over 800 people diagnosed Thursday | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

"The ministry added that 92 of the 134 cases were in people who were considered “protected” with either a booster shot, two doses in the last six months or recently recovered. It did not say how severe their cases were."

In fact it is basic math, knowing that the virus "jumps" indistinctively on vaxed or non vaxed people, if your population is vaxed at 80% you will have more vaxed positive than non vaxed, for the simple reason the vaxed represent 80% of the population.

Then again, the socio economic environment comes in play as well.
You have more cases in the Bronx than in the upper NY classes.

Plenty studies showing the racial / minorities / socio economic influence.

I'm talking about serious hospitalizations and deaths. It's already been established that no current vaccine prevents omicron infections but it has been established already that they significantly reduce serious sickness and deaths for at least delta and apparently also for omicron although it's still too early to tell.

 

[Balifrog]

I'm talking about serious hospitalizations and deaths. It's already been established that no current vaccine prevents omicron infections but it has been established already that they significantly reduce serious sickness and deaths for at least delta and apparently also for omicron although it's still too early to tell.

Oops, sorry, I read your post too fast.
Agreed (since long time) that the vaccine reduces the serious cases and deaths.
Omicron, we probably need 1 or 2 more months data to have an idea.

 

[Hawk256]

2nd confirmed death in New Zealand from vaccine along with 2 more possible cases. The law of numbers tells us that there are a lot more deaths that we don't hear about.

New Zealand links 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

SYDNEY (Reuters) -New Zealand authorities on Monday said they had linked a 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer Inc's COVID-19 vaccine after the person suffered myocarditis, a rare inflammation of the heart muscle, after taking his first dose. The death is New Zealand's second linked to a known...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Nimbus]

2nd confirmed death in New Zealand from vaccine along with 2 more possible cases. The law of numbers tells us that there are a lot more deaths that we don't hear about.

New Zealand links 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

SYDNEY (Reuters) -New Zealand authorities on Monday said they had linked a 26-year-old man's death to Pfizer Inc's COVID-19 vaccine after the person suffered myocarditis, a rare inflammation of the heart muscle, after taking his first dose. The death is New Zealand's second linked to a known...

www.yahoo.com

Would this be the same ‘law of numbers’ that makes us not hear about the hundreds of millions saved by the vaccines?

 

[Missnaughty]

I had an argument with hubs last nite and he gave me the seat belt analogy... seriously??? no one can come up with their own version analogy?? .. yikes!

 

[Missnaughty]

Would this be the same ‘law of numbers’ that makes us not hear about the hundreds of millions saved by the vaccines?

Quote : The vaccine safety board said the benefits of vaccination greatly outweighed the risks.

Well… a healthy man died of vaccine where he actually may survive covid 19! Do you really need a number?

 

[Missnaughty]

So now you're giving medical opinions? I'm going to need to see your credentials.

Oh hell yes... I am quoting the "expert with medical background"... you will get super immunity by getting a breakthrough infection... so I am agreeing with your scientist.. still not happy?

 

[Missnaughty]

Nevermind that the widely available data showing that most serious hospitalizations and deaths are amongst the non-vaccinated says otherwise.



So you are against injecting a weakened virus as a vaccine but you are for getting sick with the full virus. Great logic here!

darling... the weakened virus vaccine does not work. don't you read the news? Only Pfizer and Moderna.. and they are not using weakened virus vaccine. And it is not me who said that getting breakthrough infection can get you super immunity.. it is your scientist. And don't we all want a super immunity?

 

[William King]

And I have ONE accusation : why nearly all governments, scientifics and Big Pharma has been selling us this vaccine as the miracle solution when THEY KNEW SINCE THE START IT WAS NOT ?

Literally, no one was selling the vaccine as a miracle solution.

Why didn't they honestly say " the vaccine will in the vast majority of cases prevent you from becoming very, or critically ill, and so it will avoid our hospital system to be overrun, but be aware that it does not protect you from catching the virus, and therefore it does not avoid you spreading the virus".

That's exactly what they have been saying all along!