UK's "Prevent Strategy" linked to rights abuses in Indonesia

[serious_fun]

An article which claims that 'British' officials advised Indo authorities on how to quash dissent, and that the 'U.K.' is complicit in alleged human rights abuses including torture and forced disappearances.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

An article which claims that 'British' officials advised Indo authorities on how to quash dissent, and that the 'U.K.' is complicit in alleged human rights abuses including torture and forced disappearances.

What a ridiculous article, from some unknown website. Puts 2 and 2 together to make 7.

 

[pantaiema]

PREVENT (aka Prevent duty)" from the UK government is published where everyone could read it.

Prevent duty guidance: England and Wales (2023)

Prevent duty guidance for specified authorities in England and Wales.

www.gov.uk

Prevent

The government-led, multi-agency Prevent programme aims to stop individuals becoming terrorists and police play a key role. Find out more here.

www.counterterrorism.police.uk

They are a UK counter terrorism measure based on "four P's": Prepare, Protect, Pursue and Prevent.

The strategy is targeting education institutions, local authorities, schools, further education institutions, the health sector, prisons and probation, and the police. or other institution dealing with vulnerable people in the UK.

But this is only intended for the UK citizen in the UK or worldwide and UK residents. The fact that other countries want to copy and paste, just taking part of it that suit them is another matter and has nothing to do with the original "prevent duty".

 

[Bob]

What a ridiculous article, from some unknown website. Puts 2 and 2 together to make 7.

Just because you or I don't know them doesn't make them unknown. I do know this one though.
The article's not convincing. It looks like just a shot in the dark.

 

[serious_fun]

What a ridiculous article, from some unknown website. Puts 2 and 2 together to make 7.

That website is independent, based in London, and has been around for 10 years or so. Not ridiculous to many of us.

Perhaps you missed the gist of the article itself; it was referencing this report from Rights & Security International, an organization which itself was formed from the Britain & Ireland Human Rights Project.

I just posted the link since it's quite relevant given the alleged relationship of some within Indonesia's newly elected administration to controversial military units. Of course, many of us scoff at the notion that the 'U.K' would be associated with human rights abuse(s).

 

[harryopal1]

That website is independent, based in London, and has been around for 10 years or so. Not ridiculous to many of us.

Perhaps you missed the gist of the article itself; it was referencing this report from Rights & Security International, an organization which itself was formed from the Britain & Ireland Human Rights Project.

I just posted the link since it's quite relevant given the alleged relationship of some within Indonesia's newly elected administration to controversial military units. Of course, many of us scoff at the notion that the 'U.K' would be associated with human rights abuse(s).

I was living in Kenya when they began exhuming hundreds of bodies buried in what had been concentration camps for anyone thought to have links with Mau Mau. It is estimated that as many as 100,000 thousand Kenyans were killed, tortured and maimed during this period.

The history of British misuse in India has an appalling litany of atrocities. It is in the nature of conflict and control by militarization that terrible things are done. And as skills in torture and control are developed it is common for the knowledge gained to be passed on to friends.

 

[jstar]

That website is independent, based in London, and has been around for 10 years or so. Not ridiculous to many of us.

I expected as much…

Funded by the government of Qatar……The website is accused by governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain of supporting the political campaign of the Muslim Brotherhood by creating biased news that supported the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

[serious_fun]

I was living in Kenya when they began exhuming hundreds of bodies buried in what had been concentration camps for anyone thought to have links with Mau Mau. It is estimated that as many as 100,000 thousand Kenyans were killed, tortured and maimed during this period.

The history of British misuse in India has an appalling litany of atrocities. It is in the nature of conflict and control by militarization that terrible things are done. And as skills in torture and control are developed it is common for the knowledge gained to be passed on to friends.

Frightful.

 

[serious_fun]

I expected as much…

Funded by the government of Qatar……The website is accused by governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Bahrain of supporting the political campaign of the Muslim Brotherhood by creating biased news that supported the Muslim Brotherhood.

Oh, I didn't know that it was funded (partially one assumes) by the World Cup hosts!

Egypt, the House of Saud, etc. criticize the site? Oh no!

Back on topic, the article was referencing this report . Attack the message if you must, not the messenger.

Enjoy your Friday!

 

[John indonesia]

That website is independent, based in London, and has been around for 10 years or so. Not ridiculous to many of us.

Perhaps you missed the gist of the article itself; it was referencing this report from Rights & Security International, an organization which itself was formed from the Britain & Ireland Human Rights Project.

I just posted the link since it's quite relevant given the alleged relationship of some within Indonesia's newly elected administration to controversial military units. Of course, many of us scoff at the notion that the 'U.K' would be associated with human rights abuse(s).

From the PDF
Many Indonesian human rights groups have reported how P/CVE projects are misused to marginalise religious minorities and suppress peaceful calls for Papuan independence by accusing them of supporting‘terrorist’ groups. The government has also removed employees of the Corruption Eradication Commission(KPK) who have been critical of the country’s practices, by labelling them as ‘Taliban’.

The religious minorities appear to be extremist Muslim groups with a very violent agenda.
When it comes to "peaceful calls for Papuan independence"

I won't post pictures of the 2018 Nduga massacre where the peaceful calls for independence involved hacking 19 unarmed word workers to death

I won;t go into the rights and wrongs of Indonesia in Papua because I don't know enough about it, but hacking road workers to death isn't peaceful.

 

[John indonesia]

From the PDF
Many Indonesian human rights groups have reported how P/CVE projects are misused to marginalise religious minorities and suppress peaceful calls for Papuan independence by accusing them of supporting‘terrorist’ groups. The government has also removed employees of the Corruption Eradication Commission(KPK) who have been critical of the country’s practices, by labelling them as ‘Taliban’.

The religious minorities appear to be extremist Muslim groups with a very violent agenda.
When it comes to "peaceful calls for Papuan independence"

I won't post pictures of the 2018 Nduga massacre where the peaceful calls for independence involved hacking 19 unarmed word workers to death

I can't go into the rights and wrongs of Indonesia in Papua because I don't know enough about it, but hacking road workers to death isn't peaceful.

 

[pantaiema]

From the PDF

The religious minorities appear to be extremist Muslim groups with a very violent agenda.
When it comes to "peaceful calls for Papuan independence"

I won't post pictures of the 2018 Nduga massacre where the peaceful calls for independence involved hacking 19 unarmed word workers to death

I won;t go into the rights and wrongs of Indonesia in Papua because I don't know enough about it, but hacking road workers to death isn't peaceful.

What I have seen sofar is that, there will be no peaceful solution for separatist movement anywhere in the world. No country in this world will ever allow the integrity of their countries to be undermined.

Just image what would happen with other part of Indonesia if west Papua were allowed to be independent. Other regions in Indonesia with rich natural resources would want to become independent as well. Indonesia will turn to become a failed state.

 

[jstar]

I won;t go into the rights and wrongs of Indonesia in Papua because I don't know enough about it, but hacking road workers to death isn't peaceful.

Of course it’s not. But similarly to the train hijackings in The Netherlands by young Moluccans at the time, there is of course a lot of frustration with many members of the local community.

As said before, the region was taken by force in 1963, that’s 14 years after the recognition of Indonesia. And the transmigration programs and mandatory food replacement programs have made sure the (mainly Javanese) central government and population are not trusted at all.

 

[serious_fun]

Hmmm....so, back on topic, though peoples' opinion(s) regarding separatist movements/independence struggles is interesting:

The report discusses the "UK government" and its support for P/CVE in Indonesia.

One brief example, from page 21 of the report :

The Indonesian government’s use of P/CVE appears to be an attempt to force people to change their
religious or political views, undermining both the right to hold a belief and the right to manifest it. The targets of the government’s interventions include large groups of people who neither advocate for nor engage in hate speech – a form of speech that states may permissibly restrict under international law. Rather, the Indonesian government’s approach is much broader, since the government aims to surveil and punish people who express or hold beliefs other than the ones it defines as ‘mainstream’. This means its approach is illegal under international law. Additionally, while Indonesia’s justification for imposing a repressive P/CVE strategy may superficially appear to have the goal of protecting national security, it does not require much digging to see that its real purpose is apparently to create ‘social cohesion’ – that is, prevent dissent by silencing the people who are most likely to disagree with government policy. The practice of abolishing certain religious organisations may also violate the freedoms of assembly and association.*

*See Comm. No. 2483/2014, Adyrkhayev, Solikov and the Religious Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Dushanbe v. Tajikistan, 25 November 2022, CCPR/C/135/D/2483/2014,
paras. 9.1-9.9.

Ergo, the 'U.K.' (a great defender of freedom no doubt) is complicit in alleged human rights abuses in Indonesia.

 

[John indonesia]

Hmmm....so, back on topic, though peoples' opinion(s) regarding separatist movements/independence struggles is interesting:

The report discusses the "UK government" and its support for P/CVE in Indonesia.

One brief example, from page 21 of the report :



*See Comm. No. 2483/2014, Adyrkhayev, Solikov and the Religious Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Dushanbe v. Tajikistan, 25 November 2022, CCPR/C/135/D/2483/2014,
paras. 9.1-9.9.

Ergo, the 'U.K.' (a great defender of freedom no doubt) is complicit in alleged human rights abuses in Indonesia.

Not to mention massive profits.
London metals exchange?

 

[Shadrach]

What I have seen sofar is that, there will be no peaceful solution for separatist movement anywhere in the world. No country in this world will ever allow the integrity of their countries to be undermined.

Just image what would happen with other part of Indonesia if west Papua were allowed to be independent. Other regions in Indonesia with rich natural resources would want to become independent as well. Indonesia will turn to become a failed state.

Same as in America! What would happen if California gained independence!

 

[Bob]

What I have seen sofar is that, there will be no peaceful solution for separatist movement anywhere in the world. No country in this world will ever allow the integrity of their countries to be undermined.

Just image what would happen with other part of Indonesia if west Papua were allowed to be independent. Other regions in Indonesia with rich natural resources would want to become independent as well. Indonesia will turn to become a failed state.

That's what many said about TimTim. It hasn't happened yet.

 

[pantaiema]

That's what many said about TimTim. It hasn't happened yet.

Well, examine the historical context of East Timor's integration into Indonesia and contrast it with other Indonesian provinces? Additionally, assess East Timor's current economic status in comparison to provinces like Papua, Riau, Aceh, Borneo, South/Central Sulawesi in terms of natural resources? In fact many Indonesian politicians want them to be independent to reduce burden it is only that it might be because Suharto want to keep them as he did not want to be seen weak.

Throughout history, it's been evident that when regions fall under separatist leadership, it doesn't always lead to improvements or increased prosperity for the country or the people. Take, for instance, Uganda under Idi Amin, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, or Liberia under Charles Taylor, Mozambique especially under President Guebuza and his son. A more recent and relevant example can be seen in Indonesia, where a politician from West Papua served as the 13th Governor of Papua. Lucas Enembe. The question arises: Did he focus on developing the region or on personal enrichment during his tenure?

Furthermore, how does East Timor's current economic status compare to its economic condition during its time under Indonesian rule? Nowadays, East Timor is one of the poorest, fragile, unstable countries in the world

List of countries by Fragile States Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the Portuguese occupation, East Timor had minimal infrastructures, including few schools, roads and universities. This lack of educational development is often attributed to Portugal's strategy of keeping its colonies undereducated to maintain control, as observed in other former Portuguese colonies. Portugal showed little interest in fostering human resource development in their former colonies..
The Dutch, British empire at least built a lot of schools, universities, roads, hospitals in their former colonies and have interest for human development in their former colonies even to this date by maintaining a closer tie.

 

[Bob]

Well, examine the historical context of East Timor's integration into Indonesia and contrast it with other Indonesian provinces? Additionally, assess East Timor's current economic status in comparison to provinces like Papua, Riau, Aceh, Borneo, South/Central Sulawesi in terms of natural resources? In fact many Indonesian politicians want them to be independent to reduce burden it is only that it might be because Suharto want to keep them as he did not want to be seen weak.

Throughout history, it's been evident that when regions fall under separatist leadership, it doesn't always lead to improvements or increased prosperity for the country or the people. Take, for instance, Uganda under Idi Amin, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, or Liberia under Charles Taylor, Mozambique especially under President Guebuza and his son. A more recent example can be seen in Indonesia, where a politician from West Papua served as the 13th Governor of Papua. Lucas Enembe. The question arises: Did he focus on developing the region or on personal enrichment during his tenure?

Furthermore, how does East Timor's current economic status compare to its economic condition during its time under Indonesian rule? Nowadays, East Timor is one of the poorest, fragile, unstable countries in the world

List of countries by Fragile States Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the Portuguese occupation, East Timor had minimal infrastructures, including few schools, roads and universities. This lack of educational development is often attributed to Portugal's strategy of keeping its colonies undereducated to maintain control, as observed in other former Portuguese colonies. Portugal showed little interest in fostering human resource development in their former colonies..
The Dutch, British empire at least built a lot of schools, universities, roads, hospitals in their former colonies and have interest for human development in their former colonies even to this date by maintaining a closer tie.

Not many Indonesian politicians wanted them to be independent. Agreeing to the referendum was Habibe's misinformed decision.
Those African countries you mentioned weren't separated from other African countries but from their former colonizers. So that's not a great comparison.
That last paragraph looks like wishful thinking. Can you name a university founded by the Dutch in Indonesia or by the British in Malaysia or Myanmar?

 

[pantaiema]

Not many Indonesian politicians wanted them to be independent. Agreeing to the referendum was Habibe's misinformed decision.
Those African countries you mentioned weren't separated from other African countries but from their former colonizers. So that's not a great comparison.
That last paragraph looks like wishful thinking. Can you name a university founded by the Dutch in Indonesia or by the British in Malaysia or Myanmar?

University of Indonesia (UI) The roots of UI date back to 1851. At that time, the colonial government of the Dutch East Indies established a school to train medical assistants. Training lasted for two years, and the graduates were certified to provide basic medical treatments . In 1947, the name was changed to Universiteit van Indonesië (UVI) or Universitas Indonesia.

University of Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB)

History -

The history of engineering university in Indonesia dates back to the 20th century, when the Dutch colonial government established De Technische Hoogeschool te Bandung (THS) on July 3, 1920, on a 30-hectare plot of land in Bandung. At that time, there was only one faculty, de Faculteit van...

www.itb.ac.id

"The history of engineering university in Indonesia dates back to the 20th century, when the Dutch colonial government established De Technische Hoogeschool te Bandung (THS) on July 3, 1920, on a 30-hectare plot of land in Bandung. At that time, there was only one faculty, de Faculteit van Technische Wetenschap and only one major, namely de afdeeling der We gen Waterbouw. The establishment of this engineering school was to fulfill the needs of technical personnel or engineers due to the outbreak of the First World War."

In the initial period of these two oldest universities, faculty members, professors were brought in from Dutch universities. Likewise, instructional resources, including textbooks and library materials, were sourced from Dutch academic institutions.

Both are known as one of the oldest as well as the best Universities and Institute of Technology in Indonesia

In Malaysia, and Singapore the predecessor of the University of Malaya in Kuala Lumpur and the National University of Singapore in Singapore were King Edward VII Medical College (KEMC).https://www.um.edu.my/our-history
Both are nowadays known as one of the best universities in Asia.