Time for More Protest

[Dan]

Yep, I would rather see anyone trying to take over the government met with force. Unlike you seem to be saying, I do not side myself with radical Islamist that wants the current government out and instigate Sharia law. It also seems that you are saying that foreigners can't make any observations and have opinions of anything. I bet if I came on here and said up with the radicals and up with overthrowing the government you would give me a great big like and post how I have great insight. Sorry, not going to happen. Unlike you, I do not bow down to the Arab Islam spreading it's poisonous tentacles into all parts of the world. You want to be a submissive little man with no meaning in your life, so be it.

Dan, may I suggest you go and follow Abdullah Sameer on your Facebook. He is always looking for someone to debate about your Islam. He is a former Muslim but no one wants to debate him. Watch out because he does deal in logic and science so he may convert you out.

Oh you can make observations, but if those observations happen to be conspiratorial, bigoted and xenophobic you can expect to be called on it. Referring to Islam as "spreading it's (sic) poisonous tentacles into all parts of the world." fits all three.

Considering that I have spent each of the posts in this thread championing secularism and freedom of (and from) religion it seems like quite a stretch to suggest that I'm in deep with radical elements hoping to take over the Indonesian government. I can safely point to your admiration for good ol' days when fundamentalists knew their place, you've expressed support for brutality. To say that because I disagree with you that must mean I support Islamic extremists is illogical.

I'm a Muslim, and for me to express support for secularism is very threatening to Islamic fundamentalists. It presents an alternative, one they cannot share.

What alternative are you presenting for Muslims? A police state? It's an impossibly bad choice. And you depict their religion as "spreading its poisonous tentacles," do you believe that's a good way to get them on your side?

 

[fastpitch17]

Dan, Dan, Dan. I know, you want everyone to think I was referring to all Muslims. You have that way about you. Sorry again, as you most likely seen when you read it, I was referring to Arab inspired Islamic radicals. Really, what was so hard about actually reading it correctly and than referring to it correctly?

I am quite aware that there are many good and decent Muslims in Indonesia and no where have I said otherwise. Unfortunately, there is a radical element and if you have forgotten, perhaps some catching up with some local news media is in order. And yes, I do believe that if these RADICAL ISLAMIST attempt to overthrow the government, they should be met with force. I doubt they try by using feathers. It applies to anyone trying to over throw the current government. You are the one that opposes the use of force so I can only believe that you support those that would overthrow the government. When a group is attempting to overthrow a government, I have never heard of a time that saying, "no, stop," has ever been successful.

 

[Anglian]

I had noticed that Indonesia is a predominantly a Muslim country, if people particularly women wish to wear Islamic dress that's fine, what I do object to is the Saudi's trying to get their form of Islam onto what are basically a very easy going people, to me Wahhabism is a failure, it's kept in power by a sharia police who make Acehs sharia police look like untrained Boy Scouts, the mad flight to get out of the kingdom during Ramadan has to be seen to be believed, the weekend in Bahrain another symptom of a failed religion, so many drunk Saudis, again has to be seen to be believed, special cells built so they can sober them up after they have returned over the causeway, Indonesia was a far better place before the Saudi's started poking their nose in, it still is but I'm hoping the Saudi's run out of money before they screw the place up with their strange take on islam

 

[Daniel50]

I had noticed that Indonesia is a predominantly a Muslim country, if people particularly women wish to wear Islamic dress that's fine, what I do object to is the Saudi's trying to get their form of Islam onto what are basically a very easy going people, to me Wahhabism is a failure, it's kept in power by a sharia police who make Acehs sharia police look like untrained Boy Scouts, the mad flight to get out of the kingdom during Ramadan has to be seen to be believed, the weekend in Bahrain another symptom of a failed religion, so many drunk Saudis, again has to be seen to be believed, special cells built so they can sober them up after they have returned over the causeway, Indonesia was a far better place before the Saudi's started poking their nose in, it still is but I'm hoping the Saudi's run out of money before they screw the place up with their strange take on islam

Yes, I am not sure how open the Saudis are to any other form of religion or atheism, yet they export some of their version of religion. Some see this as naturally being closer to the true Islam.

 

[lifelongexpat]

Yes, I am not sure how open the Saudis are to any other form of religion or atheism, yet they export some of their version of religion. Some see this as naturally being closer to the true Islam.

Non-muslim clergy are prohibited from entering the country to conduct religious services etc. The possession of non-islamic religious texts is also illegal.

 

[Daniel50]

What happens when Suharto's son-in-law gets to use this anti-subversion lite law? You don't need a crystal ball to predict it.

Well, now there is talk of General Gatot running as VP with Prabowo. Quite a combination.

 

[Anglian]

Non-muslim clergy are prohibited from entering the country to conduct religious services etc. The possession of non-islamic religious texts is also illegal.

Oddly there was a Italian Catholic priest in Riyadh when I was there, he was allowed to have private services but attendance was strictly controlled, a friend of mine attended a service and asked if I would like to attend, I declined.
When I was getting my visa at the Saudi embassy in London, I met a gent from the Salvation Army, he wanted a visa to ensure a Saudi convert to Christianity had a Christian burial, he had of course been executed, I pointed out I had never seen a cemetery in Riyadh, the dead are unceremoniously buried with no headstone, it is considered worshipping the dead, I don't know what Saudi's think of Indonesian funerals as there is a definite procedure with prayers and flowers

 

[Daniel50]

Oddly there was a Italian Catholic priest in Riyadh when I was there, he was allowed to have private services but attendance was strictly controlled, a friend of mine attended a service and asked if I would like to attend, I declined.
When I was getting my visa at the Saudi embassy in London, I met a gent from the Salvation Army, he wanted a visa to ensure a Saudi convert to Christianity had a Christian burial, he had of course been executed, I pointed out I had never seen a cemetery in Riyadh, the dead are unceremoniously buried with no headstone, it is considered worshipping the dead, I don't know what Saudi's think of Indonesian funerals as there is a definite procedure with prayers and flowers

Non-muslim clergy are prohibited from entering the country to conduct religious services etc. The possession of non-islamic religious texts is also illegal.

It doesn't sound too open or positive for anyone. Anglian does not sound too positive about the Saudi System yet the USA has been a big ally for many years.

 

[Davita]

It doesn't sound too open or positive for anyone. Anglian does not sound too positive about the Saudi System yet the USA has been a big ally for many years.

Texas Oil and Saudi Oil are congenial sympaticos.

 

[Anglian]

It doesn't sound too open or positive for anyone. Anglian does not sound too positive about the Saudi System yet the USA has been a big ally for many years.

It is odd, that Saudi wasn't included in Trumps deluded Arab ban, the Taliban started by a Saudi, 9/11 perpetratrated by Saudi's, ISIs based on Wahhabism, the Saudi's have no love for us, but we sell them as many weapons as we can, they despise the Yemeni's and Iranians, don't really regard Indonesia as true Muslims, so I have no idea what game Trump is playing, anyone know??

 

[Anglian]

Texas Oil and Saudi Oil are congenial sympaticos.

The Saudi's tried to bankrupt Americas fracking, came badly unstuck, they don't have as much cash as before, as a matter of interest they do have gold, on my jaunts into the desert I found gold, I collected a small quantity and showed an American friend of mine who worked at the petrmia goverment dept, he told me not to go back and keep my mouth shut, I could be in serious trouble, anyway I made a few dollars but never went back

 

[Daniel50]

Perhaps the moral high ground is not as high, or moral, as some movies etc. may have us believe. I don't believe Trump is the 1st administration to put oil "self interest" /"strategic interest" over freedoms, religious or otherwise. But maybe those more enlightened then myself can shed some light. I believe I heard an ex CIA chief also indicating some of the US policies in the Middle East have not been without hypocrisy and certainly contributed/created some of the problems.

 

[waarmstrong]

Hypocrisy is the essence of American foreign policy and perhaps foreign policy in general.

 

[fastpitch17]

Any way you want to look at Foreign Policy in the history of the USA, Trumps way doesn't apply. Trump has favored anywhere he has business. It is all family profit first and somewhere down the list the US may get something. Mainly grief I'm afraid. Trump looks at the White House as Trump Tower II. Loyalty, no matter the position is to the CEO and the company.

 

[Nimbus]

Non-muslim clergy are prohibited from entering the country to conduct religious services etc. The possession of non-islamic religious texts is also illegal.

Did your church tell you this?

 

[Anglian]

I

Did your church tell you this?

There was a rumour whilst I was in Riyadh that some Mormons or jehovas witnes decided to have a big meet in Daharan, but the Saudi,s shut it down pronto, it may have been just a rumour as we all thought it a rather silly thing to do, the Saudi's are paranoid about the holy cross, a German company was building a hospital, I forget the name but say Borg+Warn, there were about 50 names of the builders all over the sight, some poor sod had to go round and paint the+ out
There was a book around about the 80s called "The Kingdom" about the weird kingdom, don't know if it's still about but quite funny in a ridiculous way

 

[lifelongexpat]

Did your church tell you this?

No, this is as per Saudi law. Non-Muslim clergy can enter Saudi Arabia but not for the purpose of conducting religious services.

Private or underground church services etc do exist. The religious police have been known to barge in on them and make arrests.

I was merely stating the law. What happens in practice is another story. As per the laws there every Saudi Arabian must be Muslim. In reality, there are ten's of thousands of underground Christians.

 

[lifelongexpat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Arabia-tip-state-s-Islamist-police-force.html

http://www.tidenstecken.se/islsaud1.htm

https://clarionproject.org/saudi-arabia-arrests-53-christians-private-home-prayer-16/