The Uyghur and China discussion thread

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
You missed the point. There are church raids because they can't be out in the open compared to Indonesia. They have to be underground and be secretive in China. This has been going on for decades.

As @R Cameron pointed out (#69), there are 3 churches/denominations existing in China.
 

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
747
As @R Cameron pointed out (#69), there are 3 churches/denominations existing in China.

Let's look at what he full said.

'Because there are only 3 approved churches/denominations, which are controlled by the CCP and strictly censored in permissible content.'

So again, how do you explain the church raids and churches having to be underground? Are they extremist?
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
And it seems that many of the forum posters have concluded you are a China CCP asset. I don't think you have to be on the pay roll to be deemed an asset.

Just because my views are pro-China, am "a China CCP asset"? I'm only correcting some misinformation as I think I understand China well due to years of travel and business in China. It would be nice though to be on the pay roll, but nobody in China knows Dave70.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
Let's look at what he full said.

'Because there are only 3 approved churches/denominations, which are controlled by the CCP and strictly censored in permissible content.'

So again, how do you explain the church raids and churches having to be underground? Are they extremist?

Like I said, China is a 'police state', most churches are "above ground", there may be some "underground" like the Jehovah's Witnesses which is banned in China.
 

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
747
Like I said, China is a 'police state', most churches are "above ground", there may be some "underground" like the Jehovah's Witnesses which is banned in China.

Actually they aren't allowed above ground as you put it and these are normal Protestant churches such Baptist, Nondenominational, Methodist, Evangelicals. Not Jevovah's Witness or Mormons.

And yes I know people who A)Chinese Christians who live/lived there B) People who were missionaries in China(from the 90s to precovid) C) Work with churches there and they are all report the same thing: the church has to be underground and there are raids on the churches.
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
610
By calling me "a social media troll attached to the Chinese government", it's clear you wish to end the debate. But let me tell you that you are insulting the intelligence of Muslim countries and Muslim-majority countries including Indonesia for insinuating that they don't know about the facts happening in Xinjiang. For your information, none of them believed the CIA narrative of "crime against the Uyghur Muslims" in China.
Actually, Indonesia does know what is going on, and has chosen not to participate in what they refer to as "megaphone diplomacy". https://m.merdeka.com/dunia/saat-pe...ampuri-china-soal-muslim-uighur.html?page=all

Perhaps they are afraid of of response similar to this one. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-56474847

China is well known for its bully tactics. The effect is similar to Mexico's reluctant acceptance of refugees rejected by the US. They didn't like Trump and his bullying, but they put their duty to their own people above the needs of Central/South American foreigners. The situation sucks, but the first fault is obviously with the bully, China in this case.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
Actually, Indonesia does know what is going on, and has chosen not to participate in what they refer to as "megaphone diplomacy". https://m.merdeka.com/dunia/saat-pe...ampuri-china-soal-muslim-uighur.html?page=all

Perhaps they are afraid of of response similar to this one. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-56474847

China is well known for its bully tactics. The effect is similar to Mexico's reluctant acceptance of refugees rejected by the US. They didn't like Trump and his bullying, but they put their duty to their own people above the needs of Central/South American foreigners. The situation sucks, but the first fault is obviously with the bully, China in this case.

Don't underestimate Indonesia's resolve to defend Islam and Muslims around the world. Indonesia chose to ignore the issue because it is simply NOT true.

 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
610
Don't underestimate Indonesia's resolve to defend Islam and Muslims around the world. Indonesia chose to ignore the issue because it is simply NOT true.
The article you posted is focused on discrediting claims of enforced birth control in the Uyghur. While enforced birth control is abhorrent, this is only one of many well reported human rights violations in which China is engaging. Focusing on a small portion of the issue in order to muddy the waters regarding the whole seems disingenuous.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
The article you posted is focused on discrediting claims of enforced birth control in the Uyghur. While enforced birth control is abhorrent, this is only one of many well reported human rights violations in which China is engaging. Focusing on a small portion of the issue in order to muddy the waters regarding the whole seems disingenuous.

The article is a "bonus", my response to your post #78 is "Don't underestimate Indonesia's resolve to defend Islam and Muslims around the world. Indonesia chose to ignore the issue because it is simply NOT true."
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
610
The article is a "bonus", my response to your post #78 is "Don't underestimate Indonesia's resolve to defend Islam and Muslims around the world. Indonesia chose to ignore the issue because it is simply NOT true."
That is pure speculation, whereas the article I posted cited sources in the Indonesian government... Yeah, go ahead and believe some random internet site over every major media source in the world (excluding the Chinese State run media, of course). Just don't expect your sources to be taken seriously while doing so.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
1,094
Just because my views are pro-China, am "a China CCP asset"? I'm only correcting some misinformation as I think I understand China well due to years of travel and business in China. It would be nice though to be on the pay roll, but nobody in China knows Dave70.
While you are "pro China" it should not be taken that contrary views are "anti China". It is more like most people find it hard to accept the assertions of the CCP government with its denial of oppression and disregard for human rights. The CCP likes takes the view that contrary remarks that do not support the correct line are anti-China. I for one am not anti China but feel the CCP has no credibility.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
While you are "pro China" it should not be taken that contrary views are "anti China". It is more like most people find it hard to accept the assertions of the CCP government with its denial of oppression and disregard for human rights. The CCP likes takes the view that contrary remarks that do not support the correct line are anti-China. I for one am not anti China but feel the CCP has no credibility.

I did not say am pro-China, I said "my views are pro-China". And that's because I know China more than most Westerner in Indonesia, and I speak the truth which happens to be "pro-China".
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
1,094
??? So your "views" coming from you are "pro China" as distinct from you yourself. So despite your "pro China views", are you then saying you personally are not "pro China"?

Very confusing. However, if nothing else, your contributions have livened up this thread.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
??? So your "views" coming from you are "pro China" as distinct from you yourself. So despite your "pro China views", are you then saying you personally are not "pro China"?

Very confusing. However, if nothing else, your contributions have livened up this thread.

Thanks for acknowledging my contributions. Let's put it this way, I know the truth so when I hear misinformation, I feel some moral responsibility to correct it. But the hard truths favor China, so you may say my views are pro-China.
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
853
I know the truth
How do you know this truth? Have you spent time in the Xinjiang province in recent years? Or what news sources do you trust to obtain this truthful account?

Why have you not posted independent sources? Your only attempt was a no-name blog trying to discredit one person and one very narrow claim against the CCP treatment of Uighers. We're not really interested in how bad the CIA has been, I think most here can simultaneously agree with that and that the CCP's behavior is atrocious and unjustified.

Yet somehow the Biden and Trump Secretaries of State agree on this one issue, as does Al Jazeera, the BBC, NPR, Reuters, etc. As well as the heads of states of countries all over the political map. This is quite the vast conspiracy you're claiming with no evidence.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
How do you know this truth? Have you spent time in the Xinjiang province in recent years? Or what news sources do you trust to obtain this truthful account?

Why have you not posted independent sources? Your only attempt was a no-name blog trying to discredit one person and one very narrow claim against the CCP treatment of Uighers. We're not really interested in how bad the CIA has been, I think most here can simultaneously agree with that and that the CCP's behavior is atrocious and unjustified.

Yet somehow the Biden and Trump Secretaries of State agree on this one issue, as does Al Jazeera, the BBC, NPR, Reuters, etc. As well as the heads of states of countries all over the political map. This is quite the vast conspiracy you're claiming with no evidence.

I have said earlier, I traveled to China for business in the years past, before COVID-19. Of course, also as tourist all over China including Xinjiang. You have to walk the streets, meet the people and talk to them, mostly Uyghurs in Xinjiang selling everything from food to gift items. You can even meet them in nightclubs dancing the night away. Yes, the Uyghurs (not Han Chinese).

Mainstream Media are mostly controlled by Western governments including the CIA. Some journalists even admitted being presstitutes like Dr. Udo Ulfkotte. How can you trust the MSM for news about China when the USA is at "war" with China? Not just the US but also Canada, the UK, and the EU.
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
610
I did not say am pro-China, I said "my views are pro-China". And that's because I know China more than most Westerner in Indonesia, and I speak the truth which happens to be "pro-China".
I only lived in China for a year, but it was enough to convince me that they do suppress the free exchange of ideas and information and that they have an interest in creating a "homogenous" and obedient populace. My own experiences also add to my understanding of the news. They make it easier to believe that China is performing human right violations against the Uyghur and then lying about it.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
1,094
Ohh come on HappyMan, you are obviously a CIA or MI5 stooge and Dave will see through your cover. As he says, "I know the truth."
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
610
Sorry, I did not intentionally ignore it, I just didn't read it yet.

There is no doubt that China is a 'police state', communist or not is beside the point. How do you think China can effectively control a vast country with 1.4 billion people? If China is a democracy like the US, it's done long time ago.
I've never found "democracy won't work here, the people are too (insert negative trait)" to be a convincing argument for oppressing minorities. First off, it ignores all the other (less shitty) methods of governance in favor of the status quo. Second, it just seems kinda racist... Who is that going to appeal to, arrogant foreigners?
 

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

No members online now.

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,829
Messages
73,850
Members
2,149
Latest member
nhacaioxbeticu
Top Bottom