The Legalities of Working as Consultant on Spouse ITAP

[PhilippeD]

You can have IMTA on spouse KITAS or KITAP and you do not need to change the sponsor.
I had spouse sponsored KITAP and IMTA from the company for 4 years without any problems or questions.
If your work is short term you can take temporary / short term IMTA.

It's the problem of explaining the law in Indonesia... there is always someone who can come and tell: look I had the opposite of what you said!

In the beginning of the UU 6/2011 everyone where very mess up and people got different answer from different part of the country.

The law is very clear about it:

penjelasan art 39 UU 6/2011
Visa tinggal terbatas diberikan kepada Orang Asing yang bermaksud bertempat tinggal dalam jangka waktu yang terbatas dan dapat juga diberikan kepada Orang Asing eks warga Negara Indonesia yang telah kehilangan kewarganegaraan Indonesia berdasarkan Undang-Undang tentang Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia dan bermaksud untuk kembali ke Indonesia dalam rangka memperoleh kewarganegaraan Indonesia kembali sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.
Visa tinggal terbatas dalam penerapannya dapat diberikan untuk melakukan kegiatan, antara lain:
1. Dalam rangka bekerja:
a. sebagai tenaga ahli;
b. bergabung untuk bekerja di atas kapal, alat apung, atau instalasi yang beroperasi di wilayah perairan Nusantara, laut territorial, atau landas kontinen, serta Zona Ekonomi Eksklusif Indonesia;
[…]
m.melakukan kegiatan pengobatan; dan
n. calon tenaga kerja asing yang akan bekerja dalam rangka uji coba keahlian.
2. Tidak untuk bekerja:
a. penanam modal asing;
b. mengikuti pelatihan dan penelitian ilmiah;
c. mengikuti pendidikan;
d. penyatuan keluarga;
e. repatriasi; dan
f. lanjut usia.

KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse fall under the 2.d. penyatuan keluarga which is clearly: TITAK UNTUK BERKERJA (not for purpose of work).

In recent time depnaker didn't allow anymore IMTA on KITAS/KITAP of anyone listed on the UU 6/2011 article 39 part 2.

and for christ fucking sake! It's INDONESIA! everyone know nobody care or know about the law and think they are above it.
On every kind and level of gov you can find people who had "favor".
this don'T mean it's legal.

And believe me, the day someone will want something from you, it's what they will use against you.

Keep that in mind, Indonesia care of your money, not at all of you!

 

[kratos]

It's the problem of explaining the law in Indonesia... there is always someone who can come and tell: look I had the opposite of what you said!

In the beginning of the UU 6/2011 everyone where very mess up and people got different answer from different part of the country.

The law is very clear about it:

penjelasan art 39 UU 6/2011
Visa tinggal terbatas diberikan kepada Orang Asing yang bermaksud bertempat tinggal dalam jangka waktu yang terbatas dan dapat juga diberikan kepada Orang Asing eks warga Negara Indonesia yang telah kehilangan kewarganegaraan Indonesia berdasarkan Undang-Undang tentang Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia dan bermaksud untuk kembali ke Indonesia dalam rangka memperoleh kewarganegaraan Indonesia kembali sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.
Visa tinggal terbatas dalam penerapannya dapat diberikan untuk melakukan kegiatan, antara lain:
1. Dalam rangka bekerja:
a. sebagai tenaga ahli;
b. bergabung untuk bekerja di atas kapal, alat apung, atau instalasi yang beroperasi di wilayah perairan Nusantara, laut territorial, atau landas kontinen, serta Zona Ekonomi Eksklusif Indonesia;
[…]
m.melakukan kegiatan pengobatan; dan
n. calon tenaga kerja asing yang akan bekerja dalam rangka uji coba keahlian.
2. Tidak untuk bekerja:
a. penanam modal asing;
b. mengikuti pelatihan dan penelitian ilmiah;
c. mengikuti pendidikan;
d. penyatuan keluarga;
e. repatriasi; dan
f. lanjut usia.

KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse fall under the 2.d. penyatuan keluarga which is clearly: TITAK UNTUK BERKERJA (not for purpose of work).

In recent time depnaker didn't allow anymore IMTA on KITAS/KITAP of anyone listed on the UU 6/2011 article 39 part 2.

and for christ fucking sake! It's INDONESIA! everyone know nobody care or know about the law and think they are above it.
On every kind and level of gov you can find people who had "favor".
this don'T mean it's legal.

And believe me, the day someone will want something from you, it's what they will use against you.

Keep that in mind, Indonesia care of your money, not at all of you!

This is the facebook page in Bahasa Indonesia to explain further all the foggy stuff

https://www.facebook.com/apriliastreit1/videos/10151118463726921/

According to Bapak FIRDAUS AMIR, SH., MH. – Direktur Izin Tinggal dan Status Keimigrasian (director of KITAS/KITAP and Immigration status)

i Foreigner who obtained Spuse sponsored Visa legally could work in the INFORMAL BUSINESS. What is Informal ? No Employer no Working contract/ Salary. Those who directly deal with consumers

• Pelukis, si pelukis jual langsung ke pembeli tanpa perantara Painters : He could sell his painting directly without brokers
• Tukang Bakso, consumer buy the bakso and pay directly
• Guru Private, Private teacher, Students- teacher direct transaction

 

[marsel]

While I was still in Indonesia here is what was my plan:

Create a CV (personal company) at the name of my wife.
Have all contract sign by my wife.
Have all payment done in a account to her name.
Have all the money (minus the expenditure) transferred to an account to my name as my salary.

Immigration largely accept that we work for the spouse and I believe this way will avoid a lot of trouble on both side:
- Avoiding unwanted (and invented) trouble from immigration or manpower
- Convincing an employer it is legal to use your service without IMTA

Is it not easier create a UD? The CV require 2 partners, both indonesian, so you need another person with the wife, while the UD only one, the wife.

 

[centurion]

It's the problem of explaining the law in Indonesia... there is always someone who can come and tell: look I had the opposite of what you said!

In the beginning of the UU 6/2011 everyone where very mess up and people got different answer from different part of the country.

The law is very clear about it:

penjelasan art 39 UU 6/2011
Visa tinggal terbatas diberikan kepada Orang Asing yang bermaksud bertempat tinggal dalam jangka waktu yang terbatas dan dapat juga diberikan kepada Orang Asing eks warga Negara Indonesia yang telah kehilangan kewarganegaraan Indonesia berdasarkan Undang-Undang tentang Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia dan bermaksud untuk kembali ke Indonesia dalam rangka memperoleh kewarganegaraan Indonesia kembali sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.
Visa tinggal terbatas dalam penerapannya dapat diberikan untuk melakukan kegiatan, antara lain:
1. Dalam rangka bekerja:
a. sebagai tenaga ahli;
b. bergabung untuk bekerja di atas kapal, alat apung, atau instalasi yang beroperasi di wilayah perairan Nusantara, laut territorial, atau landas kontinen, serta Zona Ekonomi Eksklusif Indonesia;
[…]
m.melakukan kegiatan pengobatan; dan
n. calon tenaga kerja asing yang akan bekerja dalam rangka uji coba keahlian.
2. Tidak untuk bekerja:
a. penanam modal asing;
b. mengikuti pelatihan dan penelitian ilmiah;
c. mengikuti pendidikan;
d. penyatuan keluarga;
e. repatriasi; dan
f. lanjut usia.

KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse fall under the 2.d. penyatuan keluarga which is clearly: TITAK UNTUK BERKERJA (not for purpose of work).

In recent time depnaker didn't allow anymore IMTA on KITAS/KITAP of anyone listed on the UU 6/2011 article 39 part 2.

and for christ fucking sake! It's INDONESIA! everyone know nobody care or know about the law and think they are above it.
On every kind and level of gov you can find people who had "favor".
this don'T mean it's legal.

And believe me, the day someone will want something from you, it's what they will use against you.

Keep that in mind, Indonesia care of your money, not at all of you!

You are speaking a total nonsense. I am telling you from my personal experience that I got IMTA and Ministry of Manpower must issue it at least based on article 61 UU 6/2011(Immigration law). So if I have right to work IMTA must be issued to me based on that I ( actually the sponsor company) request it. It is not about telling opposite but about a practical experience that you are lacking.

Another wrong and misleading information that you mentioned is that Depnaker does not issue IMTAs to spouse KITAS/KITAP owners. My wife has an immigration agency and the last two IMTAS they issued are to spouse KITAP holders last week, the last one has 67 years btw and he is holding a director position in local PT. Recently a Depnaker control some of our IMTA holders, some are spouse sponsored KITAPs and they had no objection.

Moreover, Depnaker is not concerned anymore about your immigration status when they are issuing your IMTA (there is no more visa recommendation by Depnaker). They will issue an IMTA and that is it. IMTA can be a base for other documents such are work visa, KITAS, etc.

 

[Davita]

I also thought that a spouse can sponsor a Kitas/Kitap and a Company separately sponsors an IMTA. In fact I know someone who has recently done exactly that.
This was changed some time ago I understand and it means one can lose one's job and IMTA .....but doesn't need to leave the country, and family, as he/she previously would have.

 

[centurion]

You can change the company as a sponsor to a spouse and keep the IMTA without exiting the country and without a problem.

 

[Fabius77]

Well, there's a lot of material here to digest.

 

[dafluff]

Another wrong and misleading information that you mentioned is that Depnaker does not issue IMTAs to spouse KITAS/KITAP owners. My wife has an immigration agency and the last two IMTAS they issued are to spouse KITAP holders last week, the last one has 67 years btw and he is holding a director position in local PT. Recently a Depnaker control some of our IMTA holders, some are spouse sponsored KITAPs and they had no objection.

Depnaker can issue an IMTA if they feel like it, however the law does NOT require an IMTA for WNA spouses on KITAS/KITAP in order for them to work. In fact none of the provisions regarding foreign workers (Tenaga Kerja Asing) in UU 13 2003 apply to spousal KITAS/KITAP holder.

 

[PhilippeD]

Depnaker can issue an IMTA if they feel like it, however the law does NOT require an IMTA for WNA spouses on KITAS/KITAP in order for them to work. In fact none of the provisions regarding foreign workers (Tenaga Kerja Asing) in UU 13 2003 apply to spousal KITAS/KITAP holder.

Shhht! dafluff!

His wife make an honest living by having guy paying a work permit they don't need. You will destroy her business!

Will all know agent are always the person will the highest comprehension of the law.
It's not like if any of us have experience of real life in Indonesia or knowledge of the law!

Anyway, depnaker will always accept your gratuitous donation with all the humility of real muslim. **does I go too much far with this one????

 

[centurion]

Shhht! dafluff!

His wife make an honest living by having guy paying a work permit they don't need. You will destroy her business!

Will all know agent are always the person will the highest comprehension of the law.
It's not like if any of us have experience of real life in Indonesia or knowledge of the law!

Anyway, depnaker will always accept your gratuitous donation with all the humility of real muslim. **does I go too much far with this one????

You are like Habib Rizieq holding the Quran and saying "here is the truth, just listen what I quote. God said everything in this book". It does not matter it is quoted out of context.
So, dude, you being obviously the most clever guy in the room and being ad hominem, I will try to do it as well. Employees are not paying for work permits, but companies. Companies are holders of work permit, not individuals. And companies don`t want to risk to employ anybody where they can have even the slightest problem with government officials and to be in a situation to quarrel. If you do not understand this it means that you still do not understand where you live, if you still live in Indonesia.

So if you find a job here in a company here (which you did not obviously) and by some case, there has to be a work permit with your name on it, the company will get it, not you. My reaction was on your spreading of rumours and non-checked information as a true fact with an attitude of a "Doctor Iuris" (Depnaker does not issue IMTA and other blah blah...). I don`t know what makes you a legal expert? Some articles in newspapers and quoted articles of the law?
The only exception that is tolerated is a family business if you are non-salaried and non-positioned (which is sometimes more flexible than fixed and precisely determined position).

So to summarise clearly, Depnaker will issue you an IMTA as a spouse sponsored immigrant, yes you are not considered TKA by manpower law (Depnaker for sure treat you as foreigner=work permit anyway according to them), but the company will not employ you without a work permit.

For example and this is a true example, there was a chef in a family restaurant with family KITAP. So he is in the determined position, chef. KanIm Jakarta Pusat
sent him a control and ordered/warned him to stop working. It does not mean that he cannot argue with them, but they(Immigration and/or Depnaker) can give him/restaurant administrative sanctions, cancel his KITAS/KITAP, harras the company and what he can do? Appeal to court after they deport him to test the system and proof that you are right. Would you take a lawyer specialised for cases like that? In Jakarta, good lawyers are starting from 4 digits in USD and only for the first advance payment.

It is easy to be brave anonymous on a forum, but are you brave enough to take responsibility and do something like that for yourself, to a company that you have to work, or to or advise somebody to do it and let him have the consequences?

During a couple of year on the ex and now on this forum I never mentioned family business, partly to not be misunderstood. The immigration business was mentioned as an argument in the discussion. I don`t know what is your wife doing or selling for a living, or what school she finished, but one of a couple of lines of business that we have in Indonesia is an immigration and company formation agency. Other are cosmetics, medical equipment and food import and food delivery. We do the business professionally meaning we know what we do, without bribery even when they ask, and in a couple of cases pro bono when somebody is in a real trouble. All revenues are fully reported and all taxes are paid, including BPJS for employees. You can still make money in immigration business for several reasons: language barrier, a complicated procedure for work permits, the stupidity of HRs even in international companies (I never understood why big companies don`t do work permits/visas by themselves?), some stupid procedures in immigration and so on. However, this is a dying business on a medium term because Indonesia is modernising everything and a lot of procedures are simplified.
For the record in family business, all that I do now is without IMTA, which is more flexible for me now. If I want to be in a salaried position and called "director" I will get (actually company will) an IMTA and pay 1200$. This is contrary when I worked for others PMA company.

If you listen to other people you can learn sometimes from others. So, better listen sometimes, and question and challenge everything.
That is the path to knowledge. Don`t be narrow-minded and bitter as Habib Riziek, my friend.

 

[PhilippeD]

Sorry for the very late reply but I had thing way more important to do, like observing 6 Blue Jay fighting for some slice a bread through the kitchen window. Now that I have absolutely nothing to do and time to kill...

For first your patronizing, insulting and misleading/lying/defaming tone you can put it up your a**
If you think you gonna intimidate me with your little shit, tu te fous un doight dans l'oeuil.

For second, you should follow your own advise read more than just some articles in newspapers and quoted articles of the law. And seriously, what make YOU an "a legal expert"?
All the agent I met until now have very little knowledge of the immigration law and only apply a single learned method. You sadly don't seem to be part of an exception.
Anyway, if you want a copy of the immigration law (UU 6/2011) I can supply you a copy. Tapi saya cuma ada versi asli di bahasa.

About depnaker giving IMTA to KITAS/KITAP ikut istri, in 2012-2013 at the application of the UU 6/2011 many have been cut of their IMTA (not renewed) as they had transfer their visa from company to spouse sponsor as it was illegal. And that was a special treatment solely apply to management position. Every other kind of position were systematically not allowed to spouse sponsoring + IMTA.

Oooh! the Blue Jay are back

brb

 

[centurion]

Good that the discussion is back on track with discussion based on arguments. When I worked in the company I had to know the relevant regulation, more than the Laws only. Besides the laws and bylaws, there is also how are they implemented in practice by the administration.

In late 2012 Depnaker started issuing IMTAs to foreigners with spouse KITAS/KITAP. I got mine in Jakarta in October 2012 and I was in the first dozen of people who got it, Kepala Seksi from Depnaker told us that in person. They just introduced the rule from Immigration Law in Depnaker at that time. It does not mean that the bylaws or implementing practice do not change from time to time without prior announcement. For example, contrary to before in bylaws now there is no limitation for the size of PT to employ foreign worker. In practice they will request that the applicant is at least medium company (>2 billion authorised capital, 500 subscribed and paid in), again without any support in the published regulation.

It would be good to hear the specific case that somebody lost his IMTA because of sponsor transfer, so we can learn and exchange info. One thing for sure is possible: a company does not allow you a sponsor transfer without EPO because they don`t know the procedure, they ask the agent, agent says do EPO, EPO is done and IMTA is lost because the contract was actually terminated. Depnaker does not check the immigration status when applying for IMTA anymore. Before they could know because they had to issue the TA01 form, recommendation for Visa, so if you did not request it you are on spouse sponsorship probably.
Also, positions other than top management are limited and temporary in nature, 2-3 years and they cease to exist for the foreigner. There is a list of these jobs in Depnaker website.
For the record, the ones who has right to "engage work and/or business to support himself or the the family (dapat melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/ atau keluarganya)" are holders of KITAS/KITAP given to category: 1) a family due to mixed marriage 2) former Indonesian citizens and former ex dual citizens.

 

[PhilippeD]

OK... where was I....

About depnaker giving IMTA to KITAS/KITAP ikut istri, in 2012-2013 at the application of the UU 6/2011 many have been cut of their IMTA (not renewed) as they had transfer their visa from company to spouse sponsor as it was illegal. And that was a special treatment solely apply to management position. Every other kind of position were systematically not allowed to spouse sponsoring + IMTA.
In a previous life in a previous forum we had an HRD that came to "us" because her director was just reject for his IMTA renewal because he was now under "KITAS ikut istri".
Thing have evolve since then, but in general it got only more and more restrictive. Don't even try to have an IMTA for whatever that is not "management" under wife sponsored visa. Manager, particularly owner/investor had always got way more lax from depnaker.

And still, all what I just said have very low value as it all depend of:
- Which office you deal with
- Which person in this office you are dealing with
- Which agent you are using
- and above all - how much your agent cost you for dealing your IMTA - read between the line!

Immigration less on those day but Depnaker just don't care of the law.
If they can get their money from people who don't need to have one, they will take it, even if it's not legal which not necessarily mean it's illegal.
This subject have been keep in the blur since the beginning at a point that most of people can't tell what it's the right way and not. even more if you consider depnaker changing his stance from month to month upon none written rule.

 

[PhilippeD]

Good that the discussion is back on track with discussion based on arguments.

Don't laugh of me, you are the one who leave the "conversation" for fall on insult.

 

[PhilippeD]

Forgot to add:

I'm not specialist of how get an IMTA and what it could give you.
I made my search of info on how NOT need an IMTA and what it could give you.

For company who already hired foreigner I had and will always advise to follow what Depnaker said.
For every other situation (where you will be the only foreigner) the work visa can only be detrimental.

 

[PhilippeD]

I don`t know what makes you a legal expert? Some articles in newspapers and quoted articles of the law?

The only exception that is tolerated is a family business if you are non-salaried and non-positioned (which is sometimes more flexible than fixed and precisely determined position).

So to summarise clearly, Depnaker will issue you an IMTA as a spouse sponsored immigrant, yes you are not considered TKA by manpower law (Depnaker for sure treat you as foreigner=work permit anyway according to them), but the company will not employ you without a work permit.

For example and this is a true example, there was a chef in a family restaurant with family KITAP. So he is in the determined position, chef. KanIm Jakarta Pusat
sent him a control and ordered/warned him to stop working. It does not mean that he cannot argue with them, but they(Immigration and/or Depnaker) can give him/restaurant administrative sanctions, cancel his KITAS/KITAP, harras the company and what he can do? Appeal to court after they deport him to test the system and proof that you are right. Would you take a lawyer specialised for cases like that? In Jakarta, good lawyers are starting from 4 digits in USD and only for the first advance payment.

The whole thing that you write in this pat of your previous post is what you get you don't know more than "some articles in newspapers" that you can not even back up with some "quoted articles of the law". The cook story you tell about is the perfect example of people who got fuck up by immigration because they didn't know their right and the law that apply to them - as same as you do.


Back in 2011 many got exited, including me, of the new law telling foreigner can work. Many got septic about it telling us to calm down. Atlantis was part of them telling us immigration don't have any right of regulating the work environment as it was the job of depnaker and he was expecting them to release regulation to frame out the single extremely simple article #61 of the UU 6/2011.

And we wait, wait and wait... regulation from Depnaker never come.

Here are THE question:
Why immigration put an article they don't want explain why and how to apply it. It's kind of a bit crazy when you think about it, a country that implement law and in same time refuse to give any explanation about it!

The answer take time to come out and we finally get a fix on the UN Human right chart. This chart contain only 30 article to which Indonesia have sign up.

The #23 said:

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.


The reason why depnaker didn't (and will never) specifically regulate the article 61 UU 6/2011 is because the regulation already exist: The same law that apply to every other Indonesian.

So, why they didn't simply said so when the law become in application in 2012 and they made "sosialisasi" about it.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT IT.
They don't want this article to exist, they were forced too. They intentionnaly let it in the blur and let everyone tell whatever they want.
They were also affraid some business man will use it to go into fake marriage for being able to do business in Indonesia without the control of (and have to paid to) depnaker.

At first iImmigration officer told us we can not, we need IMTA.
With time it become "you can work in your wife business but don't let anyone to see you.
And then: you can freely work in your wife business
…
For finally have my head of office telling me I could do whatever work I want - it was her argument for asking me to paid her a bribe of 10 juta for my "asli sponsor" from kitas company sponsored to wife sponsored. The same "asli sponsor" she openly lie to us it was impossible to do as such process doesn't exist!

Centurion, if you have any experience in Indonesia you will know Immigration officer have very low knowledge of the law they are suppose to supervise the application.
You will also know they are not shy to lie in your face and (try to) intimidate and bully you upon those lie.

Repeating those lie here are very damageable to the community by creating confusion of what are their right immigration don't want they know they have.



Like you said:

Don`t be narrow-minded and bitter as Habib Riziek, my friend.

So, better listen sometimes, and question and challenge everything. That is the path to knowledge.

 

[centurion]

That is true, immigration front desk and field officers don`t have much knowledge about the law that they implement, they are briefed in some"sosialisasi" and probably did not remember half of it. They also try to make some side money if they find a victim that is not aware of his rights, don`t know detailed procedures and will not make them a headache. It is not legal and moral but that is how it is. Expecting them to know the UN charter of the Universal Human Rights is too much when they don`t even know their own laws.
It is our task (our as foreigners living here) to know the relevant laws and regulations for our benefit. What we did to avoid squeezing from officials, and what we advised our friends, clients, when they submit applications by themselves is: know detailed your rights (laws, immigration bylaws etc) in advance- we must be sure in our arguments; prepare all forms and go to counter and submit your application- don`t discuss much with front desk officer because usually he does not know anything and works by algorithm; don`t ask advice from front desk officer because he/she will see that you don`t know something and he will start taking advantage or take you on a ride or he will say it is not possible; if there is a problem call for boss; insist to submit your application. This often works, under the condition that we prepared our documents well, but also Indonesians(wives/husbands) are afraid of government officials and they are not always firm while arguing/persuading them and this is part of the culture here.

It is also true that work permits are under Depnaker and not Immigration, but Immigration also has quite an authority under the Immigration law (almost like parallel police/intelligence) to supervise the foreigners and their activities. So prudent would be to manage our work/business activities cleverly- if it is without IMTA it is one set of activities/work/business, if it is with IMTA it is formal salaried work and this is also a concern of the company-employer.
Manpower Law was written in 2003, so at that time TKAs were the ones who could work only. Now by Immigration Law others have right to work as well (ex Indonesians and foreign spouses) plus it added a linguistic confusion. If they refuse to give to a foreign spouses/ex Indonesians IMTAs by request of their employers they will violate their legal rights to work. If they don`t allow them IMTAs does it mean that they are treated as TKI and they don`t need IMTAs? That is why they don`t give a clear answer-they don`t have it, and if they treat us as TKI officially it would be "un-Indonesian".

Allowing officially trough Ministerial Regulation/or "sosialisasi" to a class of foreigners to freely work as TKI will be a political decision in a country that is becoming more and more xenophobic to foreign labour, and the minister that is a xenophobic one as well will not take the responsibility of resolving this issue by himself alone. Until then they treat all foreigners trough extended and exclusive interpretation of the laws as a TKA, which does not mean that it will not change for better or worse.

At the end, I never had problems with Imigrasi/Depnaker but when I just came to Indonesia we had a problem with RT who did not want to sign the domicile paper for my wife`s KTP which was necessary for converting my Sosbud to KITAS and it became a real obstacle and a potential nightmare. At the end, she went to lurah in the kelurahan asking for her legal rights, lurah called the RT asking is there a problem. Answer from RT was "we don`t know who are they, they are some foreigners, what if they are terrorists?". Lurah ordered to RT to issue the paper and that is how the situation was resolved.

 

[jstar]

Yep, if your Pak RT (or RW) is an @sshole, you can get into ridiculous situations like these. I will bring some oleh2 when I get back again.

 

[PhilippeD]

That is true, immigration front desk and field officers don`t have much knowledge about the law that they implement, they are briefed in some"sosialisasi" and probably did not remember half of it. They also try to make some side money if they find a victim that is not aware of his rights, don`t know detailed procedures and will not make them a headache. It is not legal and moral but that is how it is. Expecting them to know the UN charter of the Universal Human Rights is too much when they don`t even know their own laws.
It is our task (our as foreigners living here) to know the relevant laws and regulations for our benefit. What we did to avoid squeezing from officials, and what we advised our friends, clients, when they submit applications by themselves is: know detailed your rights (laws, immigration bylaws etc) in advance- we must be sure in our arguments; prepare all forms and go to counter and submit your application- don`t discuss much with front desk officer because usually he does not know anything and works by algorithm; don`t ask advice from front desk officer because he/she will see that you don`t know something and he will start taking advantage or take you on a ride or he will say it is not possible; if there is a problem call for boss; insist to submit your application. This often works, under the condition that we prepared our documents well, but also Indonesians(wives/husbands) are afraid of government officials and they are not always firm while arguing/persuading them and this is part of the culture here.

It is also true that work permits are under Depnaker and not Immigration, but Immigration also has quite an authority under the Immigration law (almost like parallel police/intelligence) to supervise the foreigners and their activities. So prudent would be to manage our work/business activities cleverly- if it is without IMTA it is one set of activities/work/business, if it is with IMTA it is formal salaried work and this is also a concern of the company-employer.
Manpower Law was written in 2003, so at that time TKAs were the ones who could work only. Now by Immigration Law others have right to work as well (ex Indonesians and foreign spouses) plus it added a linguistic confusion. If they refuse to give to a foreign spouses/ex Indonesians IMTAs by request of their employers they will violate their legal rights to work. If they don`t allow them IMTAs does it mean that they are treated as TKI and they don`t need IMTAs? That is why they don`t give a clear answer-they don`t have it, and if they treat us as TKI officially it would be "un-Indonesian".

Allowing officially trough Ministerial Regulation/or "sosialisasi" to a class of foreigners to freely work as TKI will be a political decision in a country that is becoming more and more xenophobic to foreign labour, and the minister that is a xenophobic one as well will not take the responsibility of resolving this issue by himself alone. Until then they treat all foreigners trough extended and exclusive interpretation of the laws as a TKA, which does not mean that it will not change for better or worse.

At the end, I never had problems with Imigrasi/Depnaker but when I just came to Indonesia we had a problem with RT who did not want to sign the domicile paper for my wife`s KTP which was necessary for converting my Sosbud to KITAS and it became a real obstacle and a potential nightmare. At the end, she went to lurah in the kelurahan asking for her legal rights, lurah called the RT asking is there a problem. Answer from RT was "we don`t know who are they, they are some foreigners, what if they are terrorists?". Lurah ordered to RT to issue the paper and that is how the situation was resolved.

Wait for my next post, should be the last one of this last set, it will clear that up.

 

[centurion]

Besides the issue with foreign spouses, there is a real life issue with young ex Indonesians who went abroad, finished good schools and took foreign citizenships.
They came back to Indonesia, companies want to employ these fresh graduates and pay 1200$ because they would get relatively cheap and educated labour but Depnaker asks for min 5 years experience and these people cannot get employed.