Sponsor husband Kitas work

[Bad_azz]

I don't think it has anything to do with luck. Indonesian law to the best of my knowledge only deals with Indonesian language.

 

[Lavergne]

Touristic are

Also be aware if you are working freelance in a area with lots of competition, expect to be hassled and dobbed in to immigrasi by oppos thinking you are taking their business. It may also happen more than once.

You may be legal, but it can be a real hassle.

As a CYA, I would visit immigrasi and speak to a senior and get confirmation that your proposed work is legal.

If they can put it in writing fine If not, get their contact details.

Then if you get a visit by Immigrasi, you can show the written confirmation or say, I checked with X on this date and they confirmed this work is within my visa rules.

That is the biggest problem and fear where we live, small area, lot of competition, economy based on tourism and all the shit which goes with...
That's why I wanted to make clear this story, unfortunately, it's not limpid, but at list it is good to know your right and to know the law... It make you feel stronger !

What is a CYA? I'm thinking about going there but it is a long ride, thanks for your advice service

 

[lifelongexpat]

What is a CYA

CYA = Cover Your Arse/Ass

 

[Jamu]

I don't think it has anything to do with luck. Indonesian law to the best of my knowledge only deals with Indonesian language.

Wow, good for you that your Bahasa Indonesia is apparently good enough to argue Indonesian law in Indonesian with an immigration official so no luck is needed. Because otherwise they will throw the English work prohibition on the Vitas sticker back in your face and you will argue what, UU English translations (which aren't valid since they are not in BI)? I still believe that this issue of the Vitas sticker prohibition needs a serious answer...

 

[Bikerbule]

@Lavergne,

We should not be issued an IMTA and anyway criteria to have an IMTA issued to a foreigners are far too restrictive to accommodate article 61 UU 6/2011. Basically a foreigner concerned by an IMTA should be fluent in Bahasa Indonesia, should have a certain number of years of experience in his/her field of work, should have a certain credential/diploma attesting he/she his an expert, should be assisted by a certain number of Indonesian worker to whom he/she should transmit his/her knowledge and last, he/she should be working for a PT, which rules out a lot of type of companies we could work for in order to satisfy our living needs and the one of our family. If we would be considered TKA, and therefore concerned by an IMTA, many/most of us would de facto be denied their right to provide for their family. This would be a gross infringement of art.61 UU 6/2011.

I'm new to the forum just looking for a few answers about this.

If a qualified teacher with experience, degrees, licence etc is on a Kitap and works for a school, does the school need to process an IMTA or not?

Edited: The school is an SPK, teacher on a spouse KITAP, qualified teacher in a class teacher role.

 

[R Cameron]

The Indonesian law in this matter states Orang Asin - it is not gender specific.

I have nothing to add to the discussion, but just want to say that I got a good laugh out of this typo

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=being salty

 

[ChrisD]

I'm new to the forum just looking for a few answers about this.

If a qualified teacher with experience, degrees, licence etc is on a Kitap and works for a school, does the school need to process an IMTA or not?

Edited: The school is an SPK, teacher on a spouse KITAP, qualified teacher in a class teacher role.

Off the top of my head I would have thought the answer is yes as you are an employee and not self employed.

Others more au fait with this may be able to clarify the technicalities.

 

[SekolahVictoryPlus]

Despite Atlantis' clear answer above, we have also found that we do need to process an IMTA and therefore cannot hire an expat on a KITAP, as we have to obtain them a KITAS.

 

[Smallworld]

Despite Atlantis' clear answer above, we have also found that we do need to process an IMTA and therefore cannot hire an expat on a KITAP, as we have to obtain them a KITAS.

Cannot do dpkk only?

 

[Bikerbule]

Despite Atlantis' clear answer above, we have also found that we do need to process an IMTA and therefore cannot hire an expat on a KITAP, as we have to obtain them a KITAS.

Interesting, thank you. Will have to wait and see what happens over the next few months with the school's agent handling things for next year.

 

[all4ywh]

In the past 6 years+ I have always made my kantor Imigrasi and my regional nakertrans office aware of all my activities.

Atlantis, I am curious to ask : has your interaction with that nakertrans office been a voluntary action by you, or a result of a request by that office?

I ask about that because since my former wife & I established our business over 8 years ago, in both provinces of DKI Jakarta or Banten I have never visited a nakertrans office, never been contacted by anyone from nakertrans, and never have been directed (or encouraged) by immigration officers in both DKI Jakarta or Banten that I inform a nakertrans office about my involvement in the abovementioned business.

 

[Bnj]

Despite Atlantis' clear answer above, we have also found that we do need to process an IMTA and therefore cannot hire an expat on a KITAP, as we have to obtain them a KITAS.

Many people are on a spouse KITAP (in Jakarta) while on a company sponsor IMTA. KITAP is from immigration and IMTA manpower, these are two separated things.

 

[Vlijmen Fileer]

Incidentally, this is not correct, since "tenaga kerja asing" is a specific term, and holders of spousal KITAS/P are not "tenaga kerja asing". Therefore there is no such restriction for spousal KITAS/P holders. Of course, convincing employers is another matter altogether.

Dafluff, seeing much hinges on that claim, and me having seen it debated somewhat hotly really often, amongst others now on an Indonesian Expat Facebook page, I wonder about your basis for that claim.

I mean, to me it seems logical too, but it would be nice if it was actually somewhere described in Indonesian law.

The best /I/ can find about it is in UU 13/2003:
"13. Tenaga kerja asing adalah warga negara asing pemegang visa dengan maksud bekerja di wilayah Indonesia."
translated somewhere else as:
"13. Foreign worker is a visa holder of foreign citizenship with the intention to work in Indonesia’s territory."

and that leaves ample room for different interpretation.

 

[dafluff]

Dafluff, seeing much hinges on that claim, and me having seen it debated somewhat hotly really often, amongst others now on an Indonesian Expat Facebook page, I wonder about your basis for that claim.

I mean, to me it seems logical too, but it would be nice if it was actually somewhere described in Indonesian law.

The best /I/ can find about it is in UU 13/2003:
"13. Tenaga kerja asing adalah warga negara asing pemegang visa dengan maksud bekerja di wilayah Indonesia."
translated somewhere else as:
"13. Foreign worker is a visa holder of foreign citizenship with the intention to work in Indonesia’s territory."

and that leaves ample room for different interpretation.

It seems that it leaves room for interpretation, because "dengan maksud bekerja" is interpreted as "with the intention to work". When in fact it is a specific type of visa (namely a work visa). A better translation would be

"A foreign worker is a foreigner holding a work visa in Indonesia's territory".

Immigration issues visas "dengan maksud bekerja" and "dengan maksud tidak bekerja". You can see this type of visa referred to in many lower level regulations, for example this ministerial decree on technical procedures for visa application (link). You can see in the last pages all the types of "dengan maksud bekerja" and "dengan maksud tidak bekerja" visas.

When you hold a visa "dengan maksud tidak bekerja", then you are not a tenaga kerja asing.

 

[atlantis]

You can see this type of visa referred to in many lower level regulations, for example this ministerial decree on technical procedures for visa application (link).

Not only in lower level regulations. The source of "dengan maksud bekerja" and "dengan maksud tidak bekerja" is to be found in the elucidation of article 39 UU 6/2011 which sttates as follow:

Pasal 39
Visa tinggal terbatas diberikan kepada Orang Asing yang bermaksud bertempat tinggal dalam jangka waktu yang terbatas dan dapat juga diberikan kepada Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia yang telah kehilangan kewarganegaraan Indonesia berdasarkan Undang-Undang tentang Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia dan bermaksud untuk kembali ke Indonesia dalam rangka memperoleh kewarganegaraan Indonesia kembali sesuai dengan ketentuan peraturan perundang-undangan.

Visa tinggal terbatas dalam penerapannya dapat diberikan untuk melakukan kegiatan, antara lain:

1. Dalam rangka bekerja:
a. sebagai tenaga ahli;
b. bergabung untuk bekerja di atas kapal, alat apung, atau instalasi yang beroperasi di wilayah perairan Nusantara, laut territorial, atau landas kontinen, serta Zona Ekonomi Eksklusif Indonesia;
c. melaksanakan tugas sebagai rohaniwan;
d. melakukan kegiatan yang berkaitan dengan profesi dengan menerima bayaran, seperti olahraga, artis, hiburan, pengobatan, konsultan, pengacara, perdagangan, dan kegiatan profesi lain yang telah memperoleh izin dari instansi berwenang;
e. melakukan kegiatan dalam rangka pembuatan film yang bersifat komersial dan telah mendapat izin dari instansi yang berwenang;
f. melakukan pengawasan kualitas barang atau produksi (quality control);
g. melakukan inspeksi atau audit pada cabang perusahaan di Indonesia;
h. melayani purnajual; i. memasang dan reparasi mesin;
j. melakukan pekerjaan nonpermanen dalam rangka konstruksi;
k. mengadakan pertunjukan;
l. mengadakan kegiatan olahraga profesional;
m. melakukan kegiatan pengobatan; dan
n. calon tenaga kerja asing yang akan bekerja dalam rangka uji coba keahlian.

2. Tidak untuk bekerja:
a. penanam modal asing;
b. mengikuti pelatihan dan penelitian ilmiah;
c. mengikuti pendidikan;
d. penyatuan keluarga;
e. repatriasi; dan
f. lanjut usia.

basically, all those who have visas issued for the reasons stipulated in point 1. letter a to n are eligible to be considered TKA as per the definition of TKA found in art. 1 UU 13/2003 (see post #33)

Those included in point 2 letter a to f are not eligible to be considered TKA. It means that neither investors nor WNA spouse of WNI can be considered TKA. However, for the latter, if their main reason to immigrate to Indonesia is not to work (it is to be with their Indonesian family) they still have the right to work/do business as article 61 UU 6/2011 states it.

 

[Bad_azz]

So... if we read it to the letter of the law, rules for those of us on ITAS/ITAP are pretty much the same as for WNI?

Except the letter of the law pertaining to what companies can employ who, & what regulations they have?
How is the wording for that law? Does it refer to TKA or WNA?

I think this is where the balance of a legitimacy decision would lay if it went to court.

 

[atlantis]

So... if we read it to the letter of the law, rules for those of us on ITAS/ITAP are pretty much the same as for WNI?.

Nope, they are not. Note that if we are excluded of the TKA definition, and therefore of their obligations, it doesn't mean that we have rights similar to WNI. Anytime the law referes to WNA (Warga Negara Asing), we are included in the limits they fix.
Some examples?

• the negative investment list (the list of sectors partially closed/closed to foreign investment). It systematically refers to citizenship (not WNI). Despite your status as a ITAS/ITAP sponsored by a WNI spouse, you still can't invest/do business in certain sectors.
• the professions were being a WNI is mandatory (ex: doctor, lawyer, etc.)
• the professions were certain mandatory documents to perform them can only be issued to WNI (ex: a SIM A umum, a SIM B/B umum.etc to become lorry driver/taxi driver...etc)

The above list is not exhaustive. I just give you examples to explain you that we do not have similar right of the rights WNI have. If we are not TKA, we are still WNA and therefore limited.

 

[Jamu]

Many people are on a spouse KITAP (in Jakarta) while on a company sponsor IMTA.

@atlantis do you agree with this statement? Can one on a spouse Kitap be employed by a local company, say in a senior position like President Director, and if so, does the company need to obtain an IMTA for the employee?

 

[atlantis]

@atlantis do you agree with this statement? Can one on a spouse Kitap be employed by a local company, say in a senior position like President Director, and if so, does the company need to obtain an IMTA for the employee?

Legally speaking they (nakertrans) shouldn't allow the combinaison of an ITAS sponsored by a WNI spouse + an IMTA issued to a company. However this is the consensus accepted by nakertrans (albeit not all offices) at the moment. Basically, for them, the most important is that they receive the DPKK.

Forcing a WNA spouse who is on a ITAS/ITAP sponsored by his/her WNI wife to terminate it in order to be sponsored by a company would grossly infringe his/her rights. They are two very different type of residency status. Remember, if you are sponsored by your WNI wife/husband and, if your marriage terminates (by death of the WNI spouse or divorce), you are protected (as long as you have the required length of marriage before it terminates). In this case, you can keep your residency status. Now, if you have accepted to be sponsored by a company then, while you are employed by this company, your marriage terminates, you are screwed the day your employment is also terminated. You loose your residency status.

Also, your right toward citizenship are modified if you decide to terminate your ITAS/ITAP sponsored by your WNI spouse to accept the sponsorship of a company. In the first case (ITAP sponsored by WNI spouse) you follow the procedure explained in art. 19 UU 12/2006 which is pretty straightforward, while in the second case (ITAS/ITAP sponsored by a company) the procedure is already more a pain in the neck (fees also are different).

Considering the above, nakertrans has understood that if they want to keep receiving the DPKK from your employment, they would better twist their own regulation and accept that you have an IMTA issued while still being sponsored by your WNI spouse, and this despite the fact that their owwn regulation forbids it.

I apologize if my English is not good enough to clarify it. feel free to ask further questions if it isn't clear enough.

 

[William King]

. Of course, convincing employers is another matter altogether.

Not just convincing employers, as they need to convince manpower, immigration, and schools also need to convince DINAS and DINAS. It is not always the employer who is reluctant.