Regulation in regards to Domestic Helpers

Well Fp 17, as I said I have friends that I helped many times buying equipment for their Warung because I saw the need and didn't expect anything in return. I did it because I did have more and didn't mind helping when I saw it was needed. I don't just give money to people that I just got to know. I helped people that I knew a long time, but once when I needed help going to the hospital, they didn't help give me a ride out of the kindness of their heart, they wanted me to pay for the transport. After giving them millions I did feel hurt by them not wanting to help me once when I was really sick, but wanted payment for transport like a taxi ride. I still help people when I feel good about it and don't expect anything in return. I did compliment you for your generosity, but I am skeptical after hearing your story about this girl. Good luck with it!
Yeah, but at some point you just have to acknowledge that this story is different from the ones you are telling and it seems like fastpitch and his wife aren't here for the first day. So yeah, it is ok to speak out your concerns once. But after hearing the story and the details over and over again you could just let it be.
And personally I get why she doesn't go to the police herself, it might not necessarily work in her favour in such a situation. Then also, what is the thing she can achieve with this? Obviously there is no money involved from FPs side. So her bad intentions would be what?

Anyway Iam also sorry to hear about your story. Some people can be real assholes and yeah and on many or some points we all learn that lesson the hard way.
 
She wanted to go to the police but she is confined to the house and the one time she was heading out the gate she was stopped by a son who likes to keep his eye on their CCTV. I had to wonder just what he is always watching for?
 
It sounds more like a case of someone who is extremely gullible (like a lot of Indonesians who had a religious education). Hopefully she learnt a lesson on who to trust and who not to trust.
That she is. We learned right away you couldn't tease her because everything was taken literally. Wasn't so much a religious education except for elementary. After that there was no education. She was the only daughter and with 3 brothers at home, two of which were older but living off their parents she was married off at 14 to get rid of that mouth to feed. After that while her husband had an income, it wasn't for her and later the kids. She was the one who sought out odd jobs like ironing and other's laundry to bring in extra cash, her parents took aim at her to help the family.

We can only hope she learns from all these hard lessons. Probably will learn some but forget others. If something smells like a rose she always thinks it has to be a rose.
 
She wanted to go to the police but she is confined to the house and the one time she was heading out the gate she was stopped by a son who likes to keep his eye on their CCTV. I had to wonder just what he is always watching for?
Yeah it's indeed a strange and also horrible story. At least there seems to be no physical violence involved so far. I really hope that she can get out of there and live a more peaceful, secure and balanced life again.

Also what you said in some post before is true. I mean it isn't rocket science since expats are only a small group here. But you almost never hear these kind of stories or worse ones from expat or mixed families. If we like it or not, in Indonesia the mindset to treat certain people as second class humans is still much more common.
 
If I were you, I will not "temporarily dismiss" her but retain her with full salary for 6 months while she recovers at her own home. After all, it's hard to find "excellent worker with good disposition".
Is it true that employers here avoid hiring workers as employees "tetap" (meaning with a contract) and rather hire them as free-lancer to avoid still giving them full wages for 3 years after an employer has to let them go (meaning: fire them)?
 
Last edited:
Is it true that employers here avoid hiring workers as employees "tetap" (meaning with a contract) and rather hire them as free-lancer to avoid giving them full wages for 3 years when an employer has to let them go (meaning: fire them)?
Yes of course
 
Is it true that employers here avoid hiring workers as employees "tetap" (meaning with a contract) and rather hire them as free-lancer to avoid giving them full wages for 3 years when an employer has to let them go (meaning: fire them)?
Very much true. Domestic hires today have very few rights. The vast majority have no written contract and those that do the contract basically favors the employer with little regards towards the employee except for what is already required by law. Even some of those things are not included in a contract like the annual bonus or that they get paid time off for a particular holiday depending on religion. Like Eid.

The DPR has been sitting on a Domestic Workers Rights Bill for maybe 12 or so years now. It gets some mentions but never seems to come to the floor to be voted on. Lots of disagreements within members. They all of course have domestic workers and it would cause them to treat them and pay them better than what they do now. There have been DPR members who have been reported for physically harming and general mistreatment of their domestic workers and they seem to protect each other especially within the same party. The new rights would include mandatory contracts and wages as well as working hours and paid holidays if it ever gets off the ground. We have always either given holidays off or double pay if worked. We have had neighbors tell my wife she is crazy for being so nice. We have also had housekeepers that work for neighbors approach my wife asking for employment. My wife is not about to start that war.

I remember in Jakarta neighbors who were regarded as celebrities had domestic helpers who were actually family members. A sister or cousin. They got no pay, just room and board. Family. Most we seen were treated rather poorly, constantly yelled at.
 
Yeh me too always said my staff are family.
Make them feel wanted
And if they did a mistake not scared I will scold
But I would be disappointed in them

I want to be proud of them

When I had the bar / club etc I said I'm open minded BUT no drugs at all and do not steal from the till

Free drinks is ok but write it in a book so we at least know where the stock has gone as Pernod Ricard gave free stock for marketing

So for a group of girls celebrating its ok send a round of shots on the house

Or a bottle for the big spender or the regular guest
You will get it back tenfold
 
I recently had access and opportunity to read a free-lance contract . In this case of a so-called mega gym. The fee for an instructor, giving a class (like zumba, pump or combat) of 1 hour, is around 10 USdollars (grosss). Compared to fees paid in the fitness industry in The Netherlands (around 25- 30 USdollars per hour) that's really low. And maybe a fee of 10 dollars per hour is 'biasa' in Indonesia, I found it a rather shockingly low amount compared to the amount that has to be paid for a membership to exercise at such a club in Indonesia. A membership is around 40 - 50 USdollars per month here in Indonesia. The same amount one has to pay in The Netherlands. However, the wages for employees there are much and much higher than here in Indonesia. So, that means that the profits in Indonesia are excessively high, because of the low wages and low costs for e.g. electricity.

It's like someone said in another post "It's good the be the King", in this case the owner of a gym.

Note also that an instructor (for zumba, pump or combat) at a gym, maybe only has 2 max 4 classes per week, which makes a total of 2,6 juta per month (gross). Ya Allah! On top of that there are 'pasal-pasal in the contract that restricts the free-lancer to work for other gyms. Ya Allah!

I wonder if these kind of free-lance contracts are also used in hospitals and other industries?
 
Last edited:
$10 an hour is a decent rate
$80 a day
Around $2500 a month?
35jt a month+
And the rent for a gym is $10000's a month
Cost of utilities
Laundry towels etc. Uniforms
The equipment
Every machine is $2k+
 
$10 an hour is a decent rate
$80 a day
Around $2500 a month?
35jt a month+
And the rent for a gym is $10000's a month
Cost of utilities
Laundry towels etc. Uniforms
The equipment
Every machine is $2k+
I would agree with you, if (!) an instructor (for body pump, zumba, ..) can work 8 hours a day. But, as I said before, they only teach 2 maybe 4 classes per week, which gives a total of max. 16 hours per month. Hence, max 2,6 juta per month. On top of that they are not allowed to teach in other gyms, which is ridiculous because they are free-lancers (self employed).

Be aware, all the costs regarding rent, equipment and such are the same in The Netherlands (or in other Western countries), so here the owners of mega gyms make mega profit, because of the low wages in Indonesia.
 
Last edited:
Call the cops and let them take care of this mess! If she doesn't want your money then why does she call you and not the cops?
Because she knows that cops will do strictly nothing if SHE calls them.

I've been living here 25 years and never ever had a staff not fearing the cops and not thinking they are worthless. From as far as I remember I never heard once one of my staff telling me that "s/he called the police". I would even dare to bet that many (most?) Indonesian have no clue if there is or there is not an emergency call line like 911 or the 17 in my native country. At least I know for sure that only very few of my fellows here know it.

When they have a problem my staff come to talk to me. They know we will act, particularly me more than my wife in fact, and that we are far more connected than them to have things moving the proper way and to move it quick.

Being a boss here is probably what like was being a boss at the beginning of the industrialisation era in the XIXth century in Europe. Beside having to run your business and house, you often have a paternalistic role and will be involved in many social, and personal matters of your employees. For sure much more than what I would have ever dream of :ROFLMAO: But in return you may gain an astonishingly loyal crew who would ensure that your house, family, belongings...etc are safe and happy. I have people who have been staying with us for more than 15 years now and even if I sometimes feel that we have done far much than what bosses do "normally" (as in "back in my native country"), I am absolutely convinced that what they have done in return has the balance largely weighting on our side.

If I find that Indonesia has been great for me and my family I owe it in great part to my present and past staff and wouldn't think twice helping a valued staff, even if s/he is not on my pay roll anymore.
 
Is it true that employers here avoid hiring workers as employees "tetap" (meaning with a contract) and rather hire them as free-lancer to avoid still giving them full wages for 3 years after an employer has to let them go (meaning: fire them)?
This is hardly just an Indonesian phenomenom but occurs pretty much world wide. It certainly is an ongoing concern in Australia and every now and then large companies or restaurants underpaying their staff and worse, occasional cases of present day slavery. Slavery had been common especially across the top end of Australia with Aboriginal people employed on cattle stations where they were given meagre rations of flour, sugar, tobacco and meat from the cattle. This only came to an end in the late 60s. Because people were not bought and sold at auction, Australia preferred to ignore the reality even though when cattle stations changed hands, the Aboriginal people were automatically assumed to be there to work as part of the deal.
 
Last edited:
I would agree with you, if (!) an instructor (for body pump, zumba, ..) can work 8 hours a day. But, as I said before, they only teach 2 maybe 4 classes per week, which gives a total of max. 16 hours per month. Hence, max 2,6 juta per month. On top of that they are not allowed to teach in other gyms.

Be aware, all the costs regarding rent, equipment and such are the same in The Netherlands (or in other Western countries), so here the owners of mega gyms make mega profit, because of the low wages in Indonesia.
I have heard that the instructors are expected to be at the gym from opening to closing - regardless of when they have appointments so they are basically working for nothing most of the day and getting paid the "10 dollars" (or whatever) an hour for appointments they have. I don't go to a gym and this is info shared with me via a mate so take it with a pinch of salt but knowing indonesia I'd say it could be true
 
I have heard that the instructors are expected to be at the gym from opening to closing - regardless of when they have appointments so they are basically working for nothing most of the day and getting paid the "10 dollars" (or whatever) an hour for appointments they have. I don't go to a gym and this is info shared with me via a mate so take it with a pinch of salt but knowing indonesia I'd say it could be true
It's worse than that. In the gym there are pt-trainers (personal trainers), class instructors (for zumba and such) and employees (like 10 or so).

The pt-trainers have a target (regarding selling pt-packages to members). If they don't make the target, the gym will cut their fee. Many, many pt-trainers (I talked to) left the gym. Only the popular pt-trainers can make a living.

Class instructors can only serve classes from (maybe) 7 - 9 AM and 4 - 9 PM. From 9 am - 4 pm gyms are almost empty. Class instructors compete heavily with each other for the common hours.

Still many instructors want to work for the mega gyms, because of the 'gengsi'.
 
Last edited:
It's worse than that. In the gym there are pt-trainers (personal trainers), class instructors (for zumba and such) and employees (like 10 or so).

The pt-trainers have a target (regarding selling pt-packages to members). If they don't make the target, the gym will cut their fee. Many, many pt-trainers (I talked to) left the gym. Only the popular pt-trainers can make a living.

Class instructors can only serve classes from (maybe) 7 - 9 AM and 4 - 9 PM. From 9 am - 4 pm gyms are almost empty. Class instructors compete heavily with each other for the common hours.

Still many instructors want to work for the mega gyms, because of the 'gengsi'.
Ugh - its so exploitative :( I will stick to my home gym and if I ever get a PT I will do so outside of the mega gyms so I know at least they get paid the money from me 100%.
 
It's worse than that. In the gym there are pt-trainers (personal trainers), class instructors (for zumba and such) and employees (like 10 or so).

The pt-trainers have a target (regarding selling pt-packages to members). If they don't make the target, the gym will cut their fee. Many, many pt-trainers (I talked to) left the gym. Only the popular pt-trainers can make a living.

Class instructors can only serve classes from (maybe) 7 - 9 AM and 4 - 9 PM. From 9 am - 4 pm gyms are almost empty. Class instructors compete heavily with each other for the common hours.

Still many instructors want to work for the mega gyms, because of the 'gengsi'.
These gyms 'seduce' trainers with bonus at first, like Rp. 80.000 per sold pt-package on top of the 'gaji biasa of 5 juta per month'. However, the target(s) are very high: 10 pt-packages sold per month and 60 training sessions per month. Many don't make it.
 
What has working in gyms have to do with the original topic? As foreigners we are only guest in this country! We are not responsible for the local peoples lack of education, cruel family members, laziness, bad bosses, etc. I understand wanting to help these people, I personally saw the need of my new friend's business and spent millions of rupiah on improvements. I did it because I came from a western country and had more than I needed to live in this economy. I knew there would be no compensation, but I also knew that it was their problem due to their lifestyle, laziness, lack of business, selling their products too cheaply, or just their Karma! If a westerner comes here it is normal to feel the need to help these people, but it is really not our problem, I did it out of kindness and generosity. I see due to their religious beliefs, lack of social welfare, competition, traditions, very little government assistance paying for schools, teachers, books, etc. keep these people stuck in a bankrupt mentality! Only they can change that!
 
I recently had access and opportunity to read a free-lance contract . In this case of a so-called mega gym. The fee for an instructor, giving a class (like zumba, pump or combat) of 1 hour, is around 10 USdollars (grosss). Compared to fees paid in the fitness industry in The Netherlands (around 25- 30 USdollars per hour) that's really low. And maybe a fee of 10 dollars per hour is 'biasa' in Indonesia, I found it a rather shockingly low amount compared to the amount that has to be paid for a subscription to exercise at such a club in Indonesia. A subscription is around 40 - 50 USdollars per month here in Indonesia. The same amount one has to pay in The Netherlands. However, the wages for employees there are much and much higher than here in Indonesia. So, that means that the profits in Indonesia are excessively high, because of the low wages and low costs for e.g. electricity.

It's like someone said in another post "It's good the be the King", in this case the owner of a gym.

Note also that an instructor (for zumba, pump or combat) at a gym, maybe only has 2 max 4 classes per week, which makes a total of 2,6 juta per month (gross). Ya Allah! On top of that there are 'pasal-pasal in the contract that restricts the free-lancer to work for other gyms. Ya Allah!

I wonder if these kind of free-lance contracts are also used in hospitals and other industries?
The Netherlands has 15 times higher GDP per capita than Indonesia. Hence, te Indonesian zumba instructor should have around 2 USD/hour. Obviously overpaid.
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

No members online now.

Forum Statistics

Threads
6,288
Messages
104,991
Members
3,560
Latest member
André
Back
Top Bottom