Prices

[jstar]

I totally agree with Euc-'s posts in this thread. This whole thing about "bule price" and that we would be eternal victims is just rubbish, sorry to say. All depends on your ability to establish a conducive relation with a seller, whatever color of skin you have.................I want to hear from you and this is what will tailor the price you get. This, and of course how skilled you are in establishing a conducive trading relation with us.

It is a bit of a parallel discussion. You guys say you can negotiate well and get good prices. Great. But that was not what was said; it was stated that the local seller will ask more of certain potential customers. And that 'bule price' is not a myth. It's about asking prices, not the results.

You can hardly blame them; if a western tourist on Bali is willing to pay more and doesn't drive such a hard bargain, why not? And volume discount is only normal. But what p!sses me off is the fact that the K5 guy will ask me 20K for the nasi goreng instead of the usual 12K. And it's not about the 8.000 rupiah.

 

[Anglian]

I'm sure I mentioned this before(getting old) wife views a nice wardrobe in Block A, price 6 million rp, wants me to check it out, on checking price now 7 million rp, ok we go home to discuss it, we agree between us we will buy, telephone the seller, price now 9 million rp, ok forget it. Quite often I've noticed some sellers rather lose a sale than come down to a realistic price

 

[macvert]

, telephone the seller, price now 9 million rp, ok forget it.

& this is the point where I usually start swearing at them in English

 

[macvert]

Me & the wife were out cruising on the bike & decided to take the turnoff to Pantai Pandawa to see what all the fuss was about when we came across a set of modern toll gates not unlike those on a major highway. & as usual there were about half a dozen Balinese hanging around these toll gates doing SFA. We pulled up, I greeted the middle aged Balinese in bahasa Indonesia who then in reply grunted something at us with a sour look on his face as he tore a ticket from his book & tried to hand it to me while saying rp25,000.

Knowing the local price was rp8000 I said “rp25000, what for†to which he replied “entry feeâ€. I then went into full English & said so everyone could hear “you're joking, rp25,000†then looked at the wife & said “rp25,000, fuck that, let's go back to Nusa Dua where it's free†& turned around leaving the sour old bastard still holding the ticket & the rest of the lazy arse kretek smokers with their dumb looks on their faces..

I have since found out that not only is there the entry fee into that dump which strangely enough also claims among many others to be “the best beach in Bali†but also once you get to the beach you have to pay to park, what a joke, entry fee then parking fee, what else are you supposed to do once you get there, just ride around in fucking circles? …..... Unbelievable, as far as we're concerned they can stick their beach where the sun don\t shine.

I have also since been informed that they don't allow taxis past the toll gates into Pantai Pandawa & patrons are forced to take a local taxi to the beach, a taxi obviously operated by one of the lazy arse ketek smokers.

 

[Wisnu]

Money is not racist. it's about (unfair) chances and opportunity from the seller to potential customer; then the knowledge and skill of the potential customer to handle it.
The potential customer is not only bule but anybody without exception who they believe can be fooled.
Many people believe (and proud) they can get good price if they speak in same language, or same race or same country, or same ... you can add;
Being Indonesian, I used to ask special rate for WNI/KIMS holder, and normally we'll get 20 - 30% discount and found later that some bule (who doesn't speak bahasa Indonesia) get bigger discount.
My wife's friend speak Arabic well. She proudly told us how she get a big discount from a souvenir store here in Cairo. Several days later, we visited the store, and my wife got better price for exactly the same stuff.
More than 20 years ago, first time we visited Eiffel tower, young guy approached us by "Halo Apa Khabar, Selamat Pagi ....." offering key chains. We stopped and had a chat with him. He told us he knew few words from his Indonesian wife, and offered us special discount because he love his wife and the country of his wife. Later, we realized later that can get much better price from other street vendor. I believe he will do the same with other dumb tourist like us regardless their color skins.
You go to Istanbul Grand Bazaar, and you'll find many people try to talk to you in your national language.

 

[Anglian]

I notice in Cairo, after a purchase, they always asked, Are you happy with the price, I assumed they mention this if you bought the item but found another salesmen selling the item cheaper, it was your hard luck as they did ask

 

[Wisnu]

I don't know or do not notice. Here, or anywhere I'm not allowed to purchase anything if no fix price. My wife will happily do for me. She believe I'm the worst person on haggling.

 

[jstar]

More than 20 years ago, first time we visited Eiffel tower, young guy approached us by "Halo Apa Khabar, Selamat Pagi ....." offering key chains. We stopped and had a chat with him. He told us he knew few words from his Indonesian wife, and offered us special discount because he love his wife and the country of his wife. Later, we realized later that can get much better price from other street vendor. I believe he will do the same with other dumb tourist like us regardless their color skins.
You go to Istanbul Grand Bazaar, and you'll find many people try to talk to you in your national language.

Yeah, same in other places of course. In Fatahillah or Bogor the chances are you will be approached by potential guides speaking 'your' language, even Dutch. But recently we saw in Lourdes, Rome and Amsterdam shopkeepers who are specialized on Indonesians too. It got them rather far.

 

[Wisnu]

Yeah, same in other places of course. In Fatahillah or Bogor the chances are you will be approached by potential guides speaking 'your' language, even Dutch. But recently we saw in Lourdes, Rome and Amsterdam shopkeepers who are specialized on Indonesians too. It got them rather far.

They learn from. Istanbul and Saudi Arabia that's effective to fool many Indonesians, particularly new travellers. I was one of them

 

[jukung11]

Euc, I did not know your race, nor was I referring to it. As some others picked up on that you had a distinct advantage in the transaction than most people. Additionally you can speak more asian languages enough for a long price negotiation speaks more also to your cultural adaptation.

I tend more to agree with Jstar that the example Atlantis gives isn't apt. Atlantis is talking about wholesale negotiations were each transaction is commonly negotiated vs retail transactions, were the majority of the prices are posted in western countries. I couldn't tell from the post, if it is for retail distribution, or simply as a middle man. The middle man role tends to have the negotiating and cost of information as an integral part of how they make a profit.

It is funny how many people laud the idea the idea of the small "mom and pop" business owner in western countries. When it comes down to simple upfront even pricing and a fast efficient retail transaction, sometimes I can appreciate a soulless corporation.

 

[Jaime C]

Some of my business involves negotiating, so I will negotiate until the bitter end on some items in countries where such is the norm. Rather like a hobby, if I'm bored.

However, if I'm just buying satays, or nasi goreng, I don't want to spend 5 minutes getting it for the local price.

It's funny, a certain cheese seller has no problem disclosing his price publicly on an expat Facebook group (probably because they require it), but not here.

 

[Smallworld]

I'm sure I mentioned this before(getting old) wife views a nice wardrobe in Block A, price 6 million rp, wants me to check it out, on checking price now 7 million rp, ok we go home to discuss it, we agree between us we will buy, telephone the seller, price now 9 million rp, ok forget it. Quite often I've noticed some sellers rather lose a sale than come down to a realistic price

Did they say by any chance there is another bidder/buyer involved? Sometimes they are bluffing sometimes there is another player in the "game". I would walk away ...

 

[all4ywh]

During the past 6 years, my wife & I have operated a business in Indonesia which sells glass bottles/jars/containers to both retail & wholesale customers. Based on the daily volume of transactions which our employees handle, they rarely negotiate our prices unless a new customer desires to buy a "significant" amount of a product. However almost daily our office will be contacted by new customers who want to negotiate a price for purchase of a "small" amount of a product by stating : "Previously, I bought that product for a lower price from that other seller, _____"; Even with that statement, our employees still do not negotiate the price because the reason why that customer is contacting our business for that specific product is because that other seller from who they previously bought currently does not have stock, or our employees already know that the customer is lying about the "lower" price which the customer claims they previously paid to the other seller.

 

[atlantis]

The potential customer is not only bule but anybody without exception who they believe can be fooled.

This is the key, and this is why I say that "bule price" is just rubbish: it has nothing to do with buleness but all about the result of the quick assessment the seller will do. You can be bule and be proposed a fair price as a first bid and even have the best deal of the day after negotiation and you can be Indonesian and be badly screwed.
As you said, knowing the linguo, being of the same suku...etc will NOT get you necessarily a better deal. Having established quickly a conducive trading relation with the seller is what will guarantee you to have more than what your neighbor's money could afford.

 

[Euc-]

Me & the wife were out cruising on the bike & decided to take the turnoff to Pantai Pandawa to see what all the fuss was about when we came across a set of modern toll gates not unlike those on a major highway. & as usual there were about half a dozen Balinese hanging around these toll gates doing SFA. We pulled up, I greeted the middle aged Balinese in bahasa Indonesia who then in reply grunted something at us with a sour look on his face as he tore a ticket from his book & tried to hand it to me while saying rp25,000.

Knowing the local price was rp8000 I said “rp25000, what for” to which he replied “entry fee”. I then went into full English & said so everyone could hear “you're joking, rp25,000” then looked at the wife & said “rp25,000, fuck that, let's go back to Nusa Dua where it's free” & turned around leaving the sour old bastard still holding the ticket & the rest of the lazy arse kretek smokers with their dumb looks on their faces..

I have since found out that not only is there the entry fee into that dump which strangely enough also claims among many others to be “the best beach in Bali” but also once you get to the beach you have to pay to park, what a joke, entry fee then parking fee, what else are you supposed to do once you get there, just ride around in fucking circles? …..... Unbelievable, as far as we're concerned they can stick their beach where the sun don\t shine.

I have also since been informed that they don't allow taxis past the toll gates into Pantai Pandawa & patrons are forced to take a local taxi to the beach, a taxi obviously operated by one of the lazy arse ketek smokers.

I don't see a problem charging more for certain attractions to tourists compared to locals. Happens all over the world. Hell, EU governments support it.

The price of Parliament tickets depends on nationality and age. EU citizens can get a 50% discount on each tour, while EU Students get a 75% discount. The prices of the 45 min tours is as follows:

• EU Citizens over 18 (full price, Adult tickets): HUF 2000
• EU Citizens under 18 (Student tickets): HUF 1000
• non EU Citizens over 18 (full price, Adult tickets): HUF 5200 (as of March 1, 2015)
• non EU Citizens under 18 (Student tickets): HUF 2600 (as of March 1, 2015)
• Children under 6: free of charge

I have been to that beach when it was still totally unknown and a pain in the ass to get to. Now of course it is debatable whether the current changes are for the best, but the local banjar undeniably has invested a lot of money in improving the access to and looks of that beach, only fair that they ask for something in return IMHO.

 

[Euc-]

It is a bit of a parallel discussion. You guys say you can negotiate well and get good prices. Great. But that was not what was said; it was stated that the local seller will ask more of certain potential customers. And that 'bule price' is not a myth. It's about asking prices, not the results.

You can hardly blame them; if a western tourist on Bali is willing to pay more and doesn't drive such a hard bargain, why not? And volume discount is only normal. But what p!sses me off is the fact that the K5 guy will ask me 20K for the nasi goreng instead of the usual 12K. And it's not about the 8.000 rupiah.

Let's put it this way, right in front of that same K5 a Lambo/Ferrari parks, a local dude gets out dressed to the max, AP on the wrist, Loubou's on the feet. He also orders a nasi goreng. Wanna bet that that same K5 guy also asks 20K from him? Wanna bet that Ferrari guy goes "Wah mahal bgt mas, ngapain>?!", where the K5 guy goes, "ok2 Om, 12rb aja ya"

As Atlantis says, it's not about the fact that you're Bule, it's the whole transaction that should be taken into account.

 

[jukung11]

Hi

I don't see a problem charging more for certain attractions to tourists compared to locals. Happens all over the world. Hell, EU governments support it.




I have been to that beach when it was still totally unknown and a pain in the ass to get to. Now of course it is debatable whether the current changes are for the best, but the local banjar undeniably has invested a lot of money in improving the access to and looks of that beach, only fair that they ask for something in return IMHO.

It depends on who paid for it. Most public places are paid for with taxes. In a sense the citizens have already paid. The question becomes, how was it decided who pays a different price?

 

[Euc-]

Hi

It depends on who paid for it. Most public places are paid for with taxes. In a sense the citizens have already paid. The question becomes, how was it decided who pays a different price?

Banjar paid, Banjar decided anyone who's not Banjar should pay entrance fee?

 

[jstar]

Let's put it this way, right in front of that same K5 a Lambo/Ferrari parks, a local dude gets out dressed to the max, AP on the wrist, Loubou's on the feet. He also orders a nasi goreng. Wanna bet that that same K5 guy also asks 20K from him? Wanna bet that Ferrari guy goes "Wah mahal bgt mas, ngapain>?!", where the K5 guy goes, "ok2 Om, 12rb aja ya"

As Atlantis says, it's not about the fact that you're Bule, it's the whole transaction that should be taken into account.

Ha. You just described a nephew-in-law (well, he wears a Hublot instead of an Audemars, and the shoes are LV's). And yes, he does pay 12.000 rupiah. (The K5 guy wouldn't even try.)

So you lost the bet dude.

I don't know what is so difficult to comprehend here? My skin color means for a lot of people dompet or walking ATM. When shopping, the f-i-l prefers me staying in the car; they don't want to pay more. It has nothing to do with 'the whole transaction bla bla bla'; they simply ask more from the start. And I tend to agree with King Willy that it borders racism.

 

[sumyunggai]

I was just speaking to a police chief who had been police chief in Lake Toba. He was critical of the local Batak, saying that they would overcharge outsiders (i.e. non-Batak in an ethnically homogenous region), charging 25,000 IDR for a portion of BBQ pork that normally cost 15,000 IDR.

As a resident bule, I pay where I live 30,000 IDR for a beer charged to visiting (non-resident) Indonesians at 35,000 IDR. And on the bus (if I ever caught won) I would pay the local price (18,000 IDR), not the tourist bule price (50,000IDR to 150,000IDR).