new podcast: Indonesia's Defence Dilemma

[Bob]

I believe China is pushing beyond reasonable with their claims, but I can understand why they are building islands to protect their shipping lanes.
As for using them to claim more territory, that's clearly wrong. Saying that, the US can't complain as they have done far worse.

PRC's actions look more like a move to control the area rather than protect it, bearing in mind that other countries use those shipping lanes too.

 

[Samoerai]

This is due to the considerable size difference in population between the China and Indonesian.

it's notable that Chinese people are renowned for their adventurous. This is evident in the sizeable Chinese communities across Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia, where many are Chinese descendants of immigrants spanning multiple generations.

Similarly, in countries like Canada and Australia. In Canada for instance Chinese communities rank second only to Indian/ South Asian ethnic.

Even when rationalising these proportions as a percentage of the total population, the percentage of Chinese immigrants surpasses that of Indonesians by a significant margin.

Indonesians aren't widely recognized as immigrant communities. When they do immigrate, typically they'll eventually return to their home country. This aspect also contributes to why recruitment agents often favour hiring workers from Indonesia for roles like fruit picking or domestic work (historically). The agents anticipate that these workers will eventually return home, allowing them to continuously replace them with new workers and continue earning fees.

Could be, but not the only explanation for China towns all over the world.

For example, many Dutch Indonesians and Indonesians - first, second, etc. generations - live in the Netherlands, because of the bond between Indonesia and the Netherlands when Indonesia was a colony for 350 years. Many Indo-immigrants settled in The Hague after the Second World War. You would think that with so many Indos and Indonesians there would be some sort of partnership at what ever level. No, only once a year a 'Pasar Malam' festival. And certainly not an 'Indonesian Town'. But there is a China Town in The Hague.

Luar Biasa!

 

[jstar]

That’s also because the Indo community in NL -unlike native Chinese, there are many mixed Chinese Indo’s as well- has integrated so well. Too well perhaps. The kids are also not so interested in their background. And prefer Japanese or Vietnamese food, many of the Indonesian restaurants in The Hague go bankrupt.

The Tong Tong Fair (formerly Pasar Malam) is canceled btw. Another sign.

 

[Samoerai]

The Tong Tong Fair (formerly Pasar Malam) is canceled btw. Another sign.

Cancelled. ... I suspect, because of corruption inside the organization. Happened before with other Indo initiatives, e.g. Indisch Huis. I knew someone inside this Indisch Huis.

Indisch Huis roemloos ten onder

Herinneringscentrum het Indisch Huis is failliet. Dat het centrum in vier jaar tijd een schuld wist op te bouwen van negenhonderdduizend euro was voor staatssecretaris Clémence Ross van Volksgezondheid, Welzijn en Sport (VWS) reden genoeg om de stekker eruit te trekken. Het is al de tweede keer...

www.historischnieuwsblad.nl

 

[John indonesia]

PRC's actions look more like a move to control the area rather than protect it, bearing in mind that other countries use those shipping lanes too.

True, but none of those threaten the lanes - except one
I gather the Chinese are more interested in a massive fishing rights grab and possible oil than they are much else.
AUKUS is probably the silliest as Australia is guarding shipping routes against its biggest trading partner.

 

[John indonesia]

Have you ever been to Guam? I spent over 6 years there as a military member and then a DOD employee. You do realize it is an American Territory governed by the US Constitution. Local laws are based on California Laws. Government is populated by Guamanians and a few long time residents not Guamanian. While the US Military there has some influence, they have no control over how the Island is governed.

If memory serves, citizens of Guam are also US citizens but are not allowed to vote for their president.
Why is that different from China where the people can't vote for their leaders?

 

[centurion]

If memory serves, citizens of Guam are also US citizens but are not allowed to vote for their president.
Why is that different from China where the people can't vote for their leaders?

In Guam, if you complain about your rights, nothing bad happends to you personally, while in China, if you complain, you get cancelled (and not methaporically).

 

[centurion]

True, but none of those threaten the lanes - except one
I gather the Chinese are more interested in a massive fishing rights grab and possible oil than they are much else.
AUKUS is probably the silliest as Australia is guarding shipping routes against its biggest trading partner.

Indonesia has several tens of billions of debt to China. Doubt it is for fishing.

 

[Bob]

True, but none of those threaten the lanes - except one
I gather the Chinese are more interested in a massive fishing rights grab and possible oil than they are much else.
AUKUS is probably the silliest as Australia is guarding shipping routes against its biggest trading partner.

Their proximity to the lanes make control easier than if they weren't there.
The fishing and mineral rights grab goes with controlling the area.
Today's trading partner can be tomorrow's mortal enemy and vice versa. See Japan and the US in the 20th century.

 

[fastpitch17]

If memory serves, citizens of Guam are also US citizens but are not allowed to vote for their president.
Why is that different from China where the people can't vote for their leaders?

Yep, US Citizens. No, they do not have a vote for US President. They do have a vote for a US Legislature Representative even though they have no vote. They also elect their Governor and all local representatives. They have the same status as Puerto Rico and other US Territories. Along with their US Citizenship comes the rights and privileges allowed by the US Constitution. Rights and privileges a far cry different that what China allows.

 

[jstar]

The Chinese owner of the largest brothel in Europe may be involved in a spectacular espionage case. This was reported by the German newspaper 'Bild'. The authorities would specifically focus on the ninth floor of the infamous club 'Pascha' club in Cologne.

'Pascha' is an eleven-storey apartment building in Cologne that functions entirely as a brothel. Seven floors contain 126 apartments rented by prostitutes. The building also houses a hotel, nightclub, restaurant, launderette, tanning salon and several bistros.

The mega brothel on Hornstrasse has been known in Germany for years. However, the club went bankrupt during the corona crisis, as a result of a prostitution ban. A year later, in 2021, the Chinese Jing Hu (46) bought the apartment building for 11 million euros and hired a German lawyer.

According to 'Bild', the German authorities are investigating both Jing Hu (46) and the German lawyer. Jing Hu, owner of 'Pascha', would only function as a front man for a Chinese smuggling gang that uses the brothel to launder criminal money. The gang, with which the German lawyer is also associated, is said to be demanding up to 360,000 euros from illegal immigrants to arrange residence permits for those who want to stay in Germany.

However, the police suspects that there is more going on. The brothel hotel on the ninth floor, which is not accessible to regular customers of 'Pascha', attracts attention. It is believed that Chinese secret agents use this 'discrete' floor to recruit new spies in Germany.

 

[harryopal1]

The Chinese owner of the largest brothel in Europe may be involved in a spectacular espionage case. This was reported by the German newspaper 'Bild'. The authorities would specifically focus on the ninth floor of the infamous club 'Pascha' club in Cologne.

'Pascha' is an eleven-storey apartment building in Cologne that functions entirely as a brothel. Seven floors contain 126 apartments rented by prostitutes. The building also houses a hotel, nightclub, restaurant, launderette, tanning salon and several bistros.

The mega brothel on Hornstrasse has been known in Germany for years. However, the club went bankrupt during the corona crisis, as a result of a prostitution ban. A year later, in 2021, the Chinese Jing Hu (46) bought the apartment building for 11 million euros and hired a German lawyer.

According to 'Bild', the German authorities are investigating both Jing Hu (46) and the German lawyer. Jing Hu, owner of 'Pascha', would only function as a front man for a Chinese smuggling gang that uses the brothel to launder criminal money. The gang, with which the German lawyer is also associated, is said to be demanding up to 360,000 euros from illegal immigrants to arrange residence permits for those who want to stay in Germany.

However, the police suspects that there is more going on. The brothel hotel on the ninth floor, which is not accessible to regular customers of 'Pascha', attracts attention. It is believed that Chinese secret agents use this 'discrete' floor to recruit new spies in Germany.

I expect we will soon see a Chinese top level representative of the Politburo making a statement that this is an appalling slander and that the 9th floor has been set aside to educate Chinese living in Germany how to make Wiener Schnitzel.

As you see there are secret recipes which is what led to allegations of spying.

 

[John indonesia]

In Guam, if you complain about your rights, nothing bad happends to you personally, while in China, if you complain, you get cancelled (and not methaporically).

Agreed, but they don't have democracy.

 

[John indonesia]

Yep, US Citizens. No, they do not have a vote for US President. They do have a vote for a US Legislature Representative even though they have no vote. They also elect their Governor and all local representatives. They have the same status as Puerto Rico and other US Territories. Along with their US Citizenship comes the rights and privileges allowed by the US Constitution. Rights and privileges a far cry different that what China allows.

Just not the right to vote for their leaders, or elect representatives that can vote.
It isn't a democracy

 

[John indonesia]

Indonesia has several tens of billions of debt to China. Doubt it is for fishing.

America owes China billions of dollars as well.
Love or hate China, that country has made itself very powerful economically, and that's a big threat to the US.
As for military threats, China hasn't run any drill off the coast of California, and hasn't sunk mock 'enemy' ships anywhere near Washington.

It all comes down to Burger King fluffy toys.
They have them made in China rather than the US.
Chinese products are cheaper and the quality is good
Jobs are lost in the US
Money flows to China
I suppose the US could impose tariffs on fluffy toys for kids, but that would force up inflation as US manufacturers' products cost a lot more.
If you can't beat them, claim they are evil and try to force them out.

A few million fluffy toys isn't much, but it shows how Chinese manufacturing is far ahead of the same in the US. The problem here is not military, it's economic.

 

[centurion]

Agreed, but they don't have democracy.

O yes they do,

Politics of Guam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[centurion]

America owes China billions of dollars as well.
Love or hate China, that country has made itself very powerful economically, and that's a big threat to the US.
As for military threats, China hasn't run any drill off the coast of California, and hasn't sunk mock 'enemy' ships anywhere near Washington.

It all comes down to Burger King fluffy toys.
They have them made in China rather than the US.
Chinese products are cheaper and the quality is good
Jobs are lost in the US
Money flows to China
I suppose the US could impose tariffs on fluffy toys for kids, but that would force up inflation as US manufacturers' products cost a lot more.
If you can't beat them, claim they are evil and try to force them out.

A few million fluffy toys isn't much, but it shows how Chinese manufacturing is far ahead of the same in the US. The problem here is not military, it's economic.

View attachment 4004

China has territorial claims to Indonesia,and that is pretty far from the Chinese coastline. US has not any.

If debt default occurs, maybe they will ask few islands. Or maybe they will not ask at all, they could just take them.

 

[Shadrach]

America owes China billions of dollars as well.
Love or hate China, that country has made itself very powerful economically, and that's a big threat to the US.
As for military threats, China hasn't run any drill off the coast of California, and hasn't sunk mock 'enemy' ships anywhere near Washington.

It all comes down to Burger King fluffy toys.
They have them made in China rather than the US.
Chinese products are cheaper and the quality is good
Jobs are lost in the US
Money flows to China
I suppose the US could impose tariffs on fluffy toys for kids, but that would force up inflation as US manufacturers' products cost a lot more.
If you can't beat them, claim they are evil and try to force them out.

A few million fluffy toys isn't much, but it shows how Chinese manufacturing is far ahead of the same in the US. The problem here is not military, it's economic.

View attachment 4004

I must say, From my experience, Chinese made products, are not made better, but designed to quickly break, so People will go buy more, because it's cheap Crap! Even here, most of the products being sold cheaply, are Chinese disposable Crap! It's wrong that all humans are being forced to live like this, and buy cheap food, cheap products, and eat unhealthy, to get sick, then go to expensive hospitals, and end up back at the grindstone, and never get anywhere, until we die! While the rich pay off the politicians, so they get rich too, and make laws that perpetuate this nonsense! It's criminal this is allowed!

 

[Balifrog]

and buy cheap food, cheap products, and eat unhealthy, to get sick, then go to expensive hospitals

I don't buy cheap food, don't eat unhealthy, haven't been in.a hospital since decades.
But I eat French, drink whisky, go to music bars, still able to do a few moves on the danceflooor and before settling down 8 y ago had plenty g/f way younger than me .
And I feel good about it !

 

[MamangDudul]

I must say, From my experience, Chinese made products, are not made better, but designed to quickly break, so People will go buy more, because it's cheap Crap! Even here, most of the products being sold cheaply, are Chinese disposable Crap! It's wrong that all humans are being forced to live like this, and buy cheap food, cheap products, and eat unhealthy, to get sick, then go to expensive hospitals, and end up back at the grindstone, and never get anywhere, until we die! While the rich pay off the politicians, so they get rich too, and make laws that perpetuate this nonsense! It's criminal this is allowed!

Doesn't it depend on what you buy? If you buy cheap you get cheap stuff. Same goes for food.
I haven't followed the subject over the last years, but isn't basically all stuff made in China? From Iphones to cheap plastic toys and more expensive plastic toys.
I think it's really that simple, not everything out of China is cheap or bad quality, that's why the whole world did/does produce there. But of course they have very bad quality cheap stuff also. It depends on what you buy and what tou expect for the price.