Money transfer stolen

[sumyunggai]

I didn't assume that, I was told that.

Had my available information been only 'wife had sent 25 million instead of 2.5 million', then I would have ascribed the dishonesty directly to the mother-in-law, in the absence of further evidence.

Clearly there is a difference between 'accidentally sent 10* more money, keeps quiet' and 'accidentally sent 10* more money, lies about it'.

There was nothing wrong with my observation; I have 15 years of data points about local dishonesty, you have none. I have personal experience even of members of the local post office stealing things

 

[waarmstrong]

True, I have only 10 years of living in Indonesia experience and have some stories similar to yours, but not on the scale you submit to be true. I have also experienced incredible honesty and strength of character from many Indonesians, with most, like most other nationalities, falling somewhere in between. Operating from the perspective that more often than not the people you have chosen to live among are thieves and liars is a prescription for a life too unpleasant and malevolent for my tastes.

 

[sumyunggai]

True, I have only 10 years of living in Indonesia experience and have some stories similar to yours, but not on the scale you submit to be true. I have also experienced incredible honesty and strength of character from many Indonesians, with most, like most other nationalities, falling somewhere in between. Operating from the perspective that more often than not the people you have chosen to live among are thieves and liars is a prescription for a life too unpleasant and malevolent for my tastes.

It's absolutely essential, unless you have a different definition of 'living among'. There is 'living among', in a city, where people have walls and fences. And then there is living in a kampung. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr4bnPijv80

Any tourist can come to Indonesia and take colonial-style photos of smiling children in the dirt and say how wonderful they are, but it's not meaningful as a guide to living with people day in and day out.

In many Western countries most people don't really NEED to trust people. The law protects them. If I rent a house in England, then if the landlord does something wrong, he can go to prison. Good luck with that here.

Hell, one of the local meth heads, who knocked on my door at 6am a couple of Sundays ago wanting to borrow money, was recently arrested for fraud & theft; he was out within a couple of days. He struts around the Polres like he owns the place.

Taking sensible precautions when you are not protected by the country's legal framework is not malevolent, it's just common sense. And it doesn't make life unpleasant; quite the opposite, trusting people not to steal your stuff, for example, is worse than ensuring it is not stolen. And it WILL be stolen. Like I said, I don't plan to generalise about 'Indonesians', as you seem keen to; equally, whereas the £££ worth of stuff I leave unsecured in my garden in England isn't stolen despite leaving it sometimes for months on end, I'm sure in a different part of the country it would be, that doesn't mean I can generalise beyond my own locality there either (insular/unfriendly, but honest, the opposite of here)

And you can still chat to the 'friendly natives', without believing them to be saints. Just because you don't trust them, doesn't mean it's unpleasant to have coffee with them or whatever.

 

[waarmstrong]

It's absolutely essential, unless you have a different definition of 'living among'. There is 'living among', in a city, where people have walls and fences. And then there is living in a kampung. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr4bnPijv80

And you can still chat to the 'friendly natives', without believing them to be saints. Just because you don't trust them, doesn't mean it's unpleasant to have coffee with them or whatever.

Maybe so, I have visited regularly and spent a bit of time in the kampung of this or that relative, but no, I have not made my home there. Our place is on the edge of Jakarta, not really in the city, but not a kampung either. We do have walls and a gate, but so do some of our kampung relatives, some don't, as well. Having walls does not make you immune from the local panhandlers and con-artists and walls do not separate us from the neighbors. Similar to life in the Kampung we know most all our neighbors quite will and are on very good terms with most all of them. They are not only honest for the most part, but also look out for one another, including us.

I certainly agree that enjoying the company of your neighbors does not require trust, but for us anyway, it makes for better, more enjoyable relations. Wish I could say we have not been burned. We have, but still continue to treat our neighbors as equal, trustworthy friends. They reciprocate. Not only do they not cheat us, they look out for us as part of the community.

 

[sumyunggai]

Apparently the money is never to be seen again. Originally I was told that the m-i-l would save it and then my wife would take it in the summer for her spending money when she visits.

But, uh no, that plan was too much like sensible prudence and self-discipline.

She's come up instead with a different plan that involves lending just over half to a local business (builder's merchant), and apparently she get some sort of monthly cash dividend back from that (I can't really bothered to find out the details), and some other millions have been spent on some very important expenses.

As usual the m-i-l will doubtless say how clever her loan scheme is and how advantageous, and doubtless likewise it will backfire horribly.

But the top-and-bottom of it is not a red cent for my wife, and she thinks that's ok because her mother needs the cash because she is 'sick' (basically she's a fat sack of shit who fundamentally needs to do some exercise and she spends around 500k a month on Xanax because she can't sleep, and a similar sum on a brother-in-law). Of course any cure to this sickness is impossible, because the 'sickness' means perpetual cash transfusions so there is clearly no motivation to ever get better.

 

[Smallworld]

...
But the top-and-bottom of it is not a red cent for my wife, and she thinks that's ok because her mother needs the cash because she is 'sick' (basically she's a fat sack of shit who fundamentally needs to do some exercise and she spends around 500k a month on Xanax because she can't sleep, and a similar sum on a brother-in-law). Of course any cure to this sickness is impossible, because the 'sickness' means perpetual cash transfusions so there is clearly no motivation to ever get better.

Let it go.... forget about it at least you learnt something from it and ..... it won't happen again. I think even if you transfer money to your wife your MIL will convince her to transfer some money for being 'sick' by saying how 'unsupportive and ungrateful child she raised' - used as an argument. The issue with your problem lays in mother-daughter relationship with a touch of 'money'.

PS. If her mother is sick get her BPJS and forget about the whole case and if possible reject any further money transfer requests based on being sick. Just pay the min. BPJS monthly allowance directly to BPJS (kesehatan) account (you can do it online).

 

[Puspawarna]

I think your cross-cultural marriage problems are more disturbing than Dan's!

Serious questions, if it interests you to answer (obviously, just ignore them otherwise): Did you see any of this coming when you were courting your wife? If not, in retrospect were there warning signs you couldn't identify then, but that you see now? Would you do anything differently if you were starting over again in your marriage to try to put a stop to the current dynamic before it became entrenched?

I ask because, while your case seems unusually extreme, it does illustrate what seems to be a relatively common issue in Indonesian-Western marriages: namely, that the child married to the bule is expected to "share the wealth" with his/her (usually her, I guess) parents, and possibly other family as well, to a degree that most of us Westerners find unreasonable.

People at the start of cross-cultural relationships should go into them with their eyes open as wide as possible; info from people like you can help them do that.

 

[R Cameron]

I ask because, while your case seems unusually extreme, it does illustrate what seems to be a relatively common issue in Indonesian-Western marriages: namely, that the child married to the bule is expected to "share the wealth" with his/her (usually her, I guess) parents, and possibly other family as well, to a degree that most of us Westerners find unreasonable.

Yes, westerners be 'warned', if you marry an Indonesian you are marrying their whole family. Even if they deny before marriage that their family will expect anything, be suspicious/prepared.

Also, the idea of saving for retirement is far, far less common in Indonesia than western countries. For many (most?) the success of their children is their retirement plan and it is just assumed that the kids will care for the parents in their old age.

 

[fastpitch17]

My wife is tighter then I am when it comes to the household cash. She doesn't believe in rejeki, so when everyone and their cousin like to spit out how she will receive it when she helps them out, she just tells them that she only believes in immediate returns. The family hasn't been too bad when it comes to wanting money. Only a couple. More request from former neighbors who we hardly knew then anyone else. Now that we have moved to a more up scale business neighborhood we don't get the request.

My wife says, if you loan and Indonesian money just figure you have given them a gift because in all likelihood, you will never see it again. If you get any of it back, feel very happy. Oh, and don't be surprised if you loan them money for one thing and it's spent on something totally different.

 

[atlantis]

Let it go.... forget about it at least you learnt something from it and ..... it won't happen again.

Erm... Do you seriously thing so?

 

[Smallworld]

...

I ask because, while your case seems unusually extreme, it does illustrate what seems to be a relatively common issue in Indonesian-Western marriages: namely, that the child married to the bule is expected to "share the wealth" with his/her (usually her, I guess) parents, and possibly other family as well, to a degree that most of us Westerners find unreasonable.

.....

This is the main problem of most marriage problems here in Indonesia (westerner + local).

 

[Banana72]

My wife says, if you loan and Indonesian money just figure you have given them a gift because in all likelihood, you will never see it again. If you get any of it back, feel very happy. Oh, and don't be surprised if you loan them money for one thing and it's spent on something totally different.

Based on my personal experience giving loans to employees: The money needs usually revolve around three major things: Motor breaks, house roof leaking, and mama/grandma/kids being sick. Some of them...every month. The borrowing also have fixed numbers, from 500rb, 1 million, 1.5 million, 2 million. Thank goodness everybody pays their loans back.

Part of the culture also requires many celebrations: Birth of a baby, one month, four months, seven months, etc.

Death, burial, week after burial, one month anniversary, etc..etc..

 

[Smallworld]

Erm... Do you seriously thing so?

I think yes Atlantis, if he is smart enough it won't happen again..... he won't make twice the same mistake wouldn't he?
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" comes into my mind now.

 

[Smallworld]

Yes, westerners be 'warned', if you marry an Indonesian you are marrying their whole family. Even if they deny before marriage that their family will expect anything, be suspicious/prepared.....

Ok so it should work in both ways right? After all we are all family?

 

[Smallworld]

Based on my personal experience giving 'kasbon' to employees: The money needs usually revolve around three major things: Motor breaks, house roof leaking, and mama/grandma/kids being sick. Some of them...every month. The borrowing also have fixed numbers, from 500rb, 1 million, 1.5 million, 2 million.

I got nasty experience with my previous driver who was always living on borrowed money. He started to borrow more and more until his debt was big enough for me to rise concerns of how he is ever going to pay it back. He never managed to pay the debt (with no interest). So now my first point when hiring our current driver (and I made it very clear to him) was... I don't borrow money.

 

[Banana72]

I think borrowing is in the blood for some people. I just finished helping distributing this month's salary yesterday and just right after I got done handing them out...a few came back for the usual loans. I asked why the need? They just received their salary AND some actually had a good last month's incentive. The response from a couple of them "Kan sudah dua bulan nggak minjem pak, jadi saya bersih tidak ada pinjaman" followed with "Keperluan tahun baru".

I know a long term senior manager who makes over 20jt a month. House is paid for. Company pays for the car and gas. Hospital bills/medication is also covered by the company. Always in the red by the end of the month because the wife seems to go on vacation (by herself and the unemployed 20 year old momma's boy as she proudly show the pictures on facebook).

 

[Puspawarna]

I got nasty experience with my previous driver who was always living on borrowed money. He started to borrow more and more until his debt was big enough for me to rise concerns of how he is ever going to pay it back. He never managed to pay the debt (with no interest). So now my first point when hiring our current driver (and I made it very clear to him) was... I don't borrow money.

We allow our staff to borrow, but only up to the amount that they would receive as severance pay/pro-rated THR if we were to leave the country tomorrow. That way, if they were to disappear on us, they would not owe us more than we were planning to pay them at time of termination anyway.

 

[Davita]

We allow our staff to borrow, but only up to the amount that they would receive as severance pay/pro-rated THR if we were to leave the country tomorrow. That way, if they were to disappear on us, they would not owe us more than we were planning to pay them at time of termination anyway.

Exactly what we do Puspa....we did that with a very faithful driver in Jakarta but he vanished when we went on holiday. Our keys/car licence etc were all neatly left in the kitchen with an apologetic note...he was aware we were moving to Bali and his wife didn't want to go with us so he found a new job.
He said we should keep his bonus in lieu of the amount he owed....my wife said we owed him. We sent a message but think he is too embarrassed or proud to collect

Our driver in Bali found a nice house in his home town in Java to relocate his family....we lent the deposit and he currently pays-off doing overtime and my wife keeps a record...he will have paid-off by the time Lebaron comes around.

I believe in lending only when there is some collateral or some dire circumstance where it isn't a loan...it is a gift!
Like when someone drove into our maid's Scoopy (write off) and her insurance had a minimum....which we paid. She got a new Scoopy and smiles proudly every time she 'Gojeks' me to/fro the pub...free....

 

[scouser59]

I think the unfortunate experience of sumyunggai happens in marriages to developing country nationals on occasion , I have heard similar all the way back to somalia 35 years ago , there is a view that all bules wake up in the morning with a pool of gold and diamonds on the pillow , in these countries . I wish !

I think the only solution is to be brutally honest at the start of the relationship , ie the boundaries and rules re families , if the person doesnt like it tough ! , on to the next until you find the right one, as fortunately I have .

As far as neighbors are concerned , I think its wise to keep some distance , by all means be sociable but not to forget the smile can turn into a scowl .
I try not to give people bullets they fire back at me in the future .

Indonesia is an ok country to live but I am still a foreigner .

 

[Vanuatu]

I set up a separate account for my wife that get's automatically funded from my account every two weeks. From that she can help her family, spend it on herself, burn it, whatever she wants. I don't ask. I know it is more than enough to fund her parents for Ramadan, help with bills etc, even if she only sends them half. It has helped cut down on arguments and the ensuing fights about money for her family as I'm left out of the loop. That in itself makes it worthwhile.

I get along with my in-laws, but they have no financial sense at all, never save for anything, never think of the future, when they get a windfall, they burn through it like there is no tomorrow.