Living with extended families.

My wife's little brother lived with us for a few years. He was in high school in the kampung and wasn't a model student. After turning up late for school (again), his teacher berated him (fair enough) and hit him in the face (not cool). My brother-in-law knocked the teacher out (not cool either, but I get it).

He got kicked out of that school and the only other school nearby wouldn't take him because of the whole palaver.

I was happy to take him to Jakarta and put him through high school and university, though he didn't see that through. He's married and working in Jakarta now and doing quite well.

Does this count as "being taken advantage of"? Because I don't see it that way at all.
 
Does this count as "being taken advantage of"? Because I don't see it that way at all.

No not at all. Sounds like you did well. Does that mean that you think that the person in the original post is not being taken advantage of?
 
My wife's little brother lived with us for a few years. He was in high school in the kampung and wasn't a model student. After turning up late for school (again), his teacher berated him (fair enough) and hit him in the face (not cool). My brother-in-law knocked the teacher out (not cool either, but I get it).

He got kicked out of that school and the only other school nearby wouldn't take him because of the whole palaver.

I was happy to take him to Jakarta and put him through high school and university, though he didn't see that through. He's married and working in Jakarta now and doing quite well.

Does this count as "being taken advantage of"? Because I don't see it that way at all.

No because YOU iniated it, not the other way around.

I give the invitations in my house, this is the normal way. Not people inviting themselves.
 
My impression was a that of a guy who does not sweat the little things, such as a tank of gas for a scooter now and then. Perhaps I am reading between the lines too much, but when discourteous and presumptive behaviors crosses into egregious territory, I doubt he puts up with it. I presume, as well, that when he does draw a line, it is with the support of the spouse and most of her family.

I don't expect Indonesians, especially family members, to act "Western" around me, but I am savvy enough to appreciate when behavior is anathema to Indonesian cultural standards. I am thinking I would draw the line in about the same place as Han's friend. The Ruserious line would probably be drawn earlier, and that's perfectly fine.
 
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My wife is very clear that when we return to Indonesia we need to be on another island to the bulk of her family. It is very large and extended, and she loves them, but much prefers that they have to make an effort to stay rather than just ‘pop in’. I would actually be happy in her home town, but her view is that she would be the one doing most of the work about entertaining/ feeding/ chatting with them.

We do sponsor one of her brothers kids, as unfortunately he has developed a severe mental illness, and his wife is now effectively a single mother. Pays for ‘extras’ that otherwise they would miss out on. They are lovely children and I don’t begrudge it at all. Adoption is not a possibility though - I did offer/ ask.
 
As always in the discussions, stereotypes abound.

My last four years in Indonesia we had a 5 bedroom house, 15 minutes from the inlaws. They never took advantage. One time while renovating their house they asked permission to stay for a few months. They were welcome, they paid for food and shopping as often as I.

But then a year later, me and my family stayed in their house. And we shared bills and food also.

I had two vehicles. One time an uncle visited from Australia so we lent him one of our cars. A few other times I borrowed one of theirs when mine was being repaired etc.
 
I have written on this before, but I will give my little rant about obligations to family for any new or lurker expats that may be reading this. The east vs west unwritten traditions leads to a lot of strife. This is in my study of Indonesia and anyone is free to disagree with me.

There are times when cultural obligations will obligate a foreigner to financially support an in-law, such as providing a place to live. These are generally unwritten rules in most of Indonesia and more generally across all of Asia. There are times when families will use a foreigners misunderstanding of culture to take advantage of him or her financially.

Indonesian culture is less gender neutral than western society. There are normal gender roles in most Indonesian cultures. It is usually the male son's obligation to care for his parents. It can be stronger or weaker depending upon the ethnic background of the different Indonesian groups, but it seems to run through most in Indonesia. Women usually become part of the husband's family and it is his job to care for his parents and her to support him. This is most pronounced in Indonesian cultures that require a dowry or bride price. The bride price is to directly compensate the parents for the cost of raising a daughter and that she and the foreigner has no obligation to take care of them after that. The reality of the practice in the eastern islands is this is carried as a debt and paid off over time.
The gender difference is most evident in the treatment difference of son's and daughters in many Indonesian families. If there is a question of enough resources for things such as education or starting a business, they will usually go to the son over the daughter. This can even come down to basic discipline in the son being treated better than the daughter. Over the years I have had to listen to many an Indonesian woman bemoan this difference in treatment.

If a foreign woman marries an Indonesian man, especially if he is the eldest child, expect it to be both of the foreigner's and husband's responsibility to care for his parents and possibly any siblings if the parents have passed or retired.

If a foreigner marries an Indonesian daughter that has no male siblings, expect the foreigner to have financially support her parents and possibly siblings if she is the eldest child. This is a cultural understanding that every foreigner should know before marrying. I have known many Indonesians women that will confirm this in an indirect way. Since the foreigner doesn't understand the cultural context it will usually be along the lines of "I am not rich or I am an only child or I support my sibling, etc." followed by "do you still want me?" The cultural context combined with the indirect way Indonesians communicate, these questions are asking if the foreigner is ok with supporting family members. It flies right by many foreigners.

If there is an oldest son in the family, and it is a foreign male marrying a daughter, there is not a cultural obligation to support family members, especially not the eldest son. There may be a general obligation for anyone in the family to do what they can, but it is generally culturally acceptable to say no. Many Indonesian daughters will still attempt this despite it not being a social obligation. In my experience, I have noticed two common reasons. The first is the strong influence Indonesian parents have in the control and lives of their children. The second reason is after the years of being treated as less important, it is very empowering for women to be the one their family is financially dependent on. In these situations, it is more of an individual family dynamic than a broader cultural one.

An exception to the foreigner not having a financial obligation is if the foreigner starts acting like the defacto head of the extended family. If he is directing the family members what to do and acting like he is in charge of everything, then it is his social obligation to financially support it.
 
Honestly ,Ya if you have a surplus of money which you may wish to bestow on the inlaws fine ,if you are a normal person ,'charity begins at home ', as long as you make your financial situation clear at the start of the relationship and your indo partner is ok with that ,no issue .
The same story you will hear in many developing countries in asia and africa .
 
All this "traditional culture" blablabla....

Why not look at it the other way around ?
"Darling, I know Asians have certain habits and so but I am a westerner and I dont give a sh*t about all this stuff. Do you still love me and want to marry me ?"
 
Why not look at it the other way around ?
"Darling, I know Asians have certain habits and so but I am a westerner and I dont give a sh*t about all this stuff. Do you still love me and want to marry me ?"

I wonder how this conversation goes differently when the couple is planning to live in the West versus those planning to live in Indonesia? I think we hear the tendency towards following the Indonesian culture here because it's a forum for people living in Indonesia, so it's not just following the culture of the spouse, it's following the culture of the community where you live. When the mixed couple live in the West I assume it's the Indonesian spouse who makes the larger cultural adjustment not just to be more like their spouse but also to be more like the community they live in.
 
I wonder how this conversation goes differently when the couple is planning to live in the West versus those planning to live in Indonesia? I think we hear the tendency towards following the Indonesian culture here because it's a forum for people living in Indonesia, so it's not just following the culture of the spouse, it's following the culture of the community where you live. When the mixed couple live in the West I assume it's the Indonesian spouse who makes the larger cultural adjustment not just to be more like their spouse but also to be more like the community they live in.
I lived 10 years with my ex Thai wife in France, and yes she adapted completely. But having studied there it was rather easy for her.
Our 3 kids having spend their young years there and been to school there they naturally became (and still are) completely western in their mind.
But know how to use the Asian side when it suits them...
 
I wonder how this conversation goes differently when the couple is planning to live in the West versus those planning to live in Indonesia? I think we hear the tendency towards following the Indonesian culture here because it's a forum for people living in Indonesia, so it's not just following the culture of the spouse, it's following the culture of the community where you live. When the mixed couple live in the West I assume it's the Indonesian spouse who makes the larger cultural adjustment not just to be more like their spouse but also to be more like the community they live in.

Most guys I know who went "home" with Indonesian/Asian wives ended up with the wife seeking out others from her country and not integrating in the American culture. Heard lots of complaints from old friends about that. Not all, mind you, but the majority
 
Most guys I know who went "home" with Indonesian/Asian wives ended up with the wife seeking out others from her country and not integrating in the American culture. Heard lots of complaints from old friends about that. Not all, mind you, but the majority
Isn't that exactly what we're all doing on this site? Did they adapt to American culture significantly less than your average western expat adapts to Indonesian culture?

I've never met an expat at either extreme of fully embracing the new culture or fully ignoring it, so it's all just shades of grey which will be different for each person. I suppose it all really just boils down to tissue or cebok?? :suspicious:
 
Isn't that exactly what we're all doing on this site? Did they adapt to American culture significantly less than your average western expat adapts to Indonesian culture?

I've never met an expat at either extreme of fully embracing the new culture or fully ignoring it, so it's all just shades of grey which will be different for each person. I suppose it all really just boils down to tissue or cebok?? :suspicious:
I can quite categorically state that I do not seek out other "expats" if anything I tend to avoid them.
I do have friends from other countries here, yet I rarely if ever see them face to face.
Mainly time and distance are to blame.
I am not interested in bars and booze & beaches though, so maybe I am not exactly the in main "expat" demographic
 
I can quite categorically state that I do not seek out other "expats" if anything I tend to avoid them.

But you have 2563 posts here.

I'm merely pointing out that I think Minuteman's post (in an expat forum!) is a bit unfair to the anecdotes of asian wives seeking out their own expat community.
 
Above mentioned expats` view of the Indonesian culture is under conditions that the foreigner is married to a person under his status, that she is from a poor family, not much educated and a jobless housewife.
 
But you have 2563 posts here.

I'm merely pointing out that I think Minuteman's post (in an expat forum!) is a bit unfair to the anecdotes of asian wives seeking out their own expat community.
Posting in here is hardly seeking out foreigners for companionship.
I post online mainly to try and help others who have queries and to pay forward for the help I received as a newbie to RI. It is hardly the same thing.
However to clarify for the pedants, I do not seek out other foreigners for companionship in REAL LIFE here in Indonesia.
I have some who I class as friends but hardly see & they are the few diamonds amongst the crud :D
 
I will have my cake now; please look away while I eat it.
 

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