Keep your head down when it comes to government posts

[Hawk256]

Are you referring to the bule guy. German?

Not German. Personal friend. Not sure which one actually earned him the deportation. Maybe since it was all 3. Good guy. Feel sorry for him. He has been in Indonesia for 30 years and did a lot of charitable things.

 

[Hawk256]

I wonder which of those things pi$$ed off the power structure the most... May I ask if this person lived in a rural or urban area?

Horrible.

Central Jakarta.

 

[Banana72]

Holy crap 30 years gone poof! just like that!

Not German. Personal friend. Not sure which one actually earned him the deportation. Maybe since it was all 3. Good guy. Feel sorry for him. He has been in Indonesia forr 30 years and did a lot of charitable things.

 

[snpark]

My bad sorry because our resident media correspondant posted a YouTube video about a German getting unoccupied

 

[Hawk256]

Holy crap 30 years gone poof! just like that!

You can imagine his shock. When they told him at first, he thought it might be a bribe attempt. Then he figured they were just trying to scare him into not doing those things anymore. They did drag their feet about it but it ended up just like they told him.

 

[Balifrog]

You can imagine his shock. When they told him at first, he thought it might be a bribe attempt. Then he figured they were just trying to scare him into not doing those things anymore. They did drag their feet about it but it ended up just like they told him.

One should NEVER forget that we are only immigrants..... liable to be kicked out on a wimp.

 

[Bob]

If this guy owns an export-oriented manufacturing company with hundreds of employees, perhaps they will not deport him for the sake of his workers and their families. His business will have to close if he is deported, which is understandable.

Or maybe they’d find someone else to take his place. Have you never heard of a business being seized?

 

[jstar]

To ‘do a lot of charitable things’ could be considered work here. Even without financial compensation.

 

[Hawk256]

To ‘do a lot of charitable things’ could be considered work here. Even without financial compensation.

The certainly seems to be the case but they never actually came out and said it was related to working without a permit. They have been rather vague about the whole thing. At the time he was at the airport waiting on his passport, they still hadn't provided him with any official paperwork. I will know more about that part in a day or so. I will update the post when I know. I imagine all the orphans he has helped over the years appreciate what he did for them, the government not so much.

 

[Dave70]

Or maybe they’d find someone else to take his place. Have you never heard of a business being seized?

No, nationalization of foreign-owned businesses is unheard of since Suharto’s time, it only happened during Sukarno’s time.

 

[pantaiema]

No, nationalization of foreign-owned businesses is unheard of since Suharto’s time, it only happened during Sukarno’s time.

Well, have you heard about Indonesia's mandatory divestment rule, especially in the mining, mineral, and coal sectors?

Foreign investors can initially own up to 100% of an Indonesian mining company (PT PMA), but Indonesia's regulatory framework strongly promotes resource nationalism through mandatory divestment requirements. Under the divestment rule, foreign shareholders are required to gradually divest their shares to Indonesian parties, such as the central or regional government, state-owned enterprises (BUMN), or Indonesian private companies until Indonesian ownership reaches at least 51%.

The divestment timeline depends on the type of mining operation. For most standard mining projects, divestment starts in the 5th year of commercial production and must reach 51% Indonesian ownership by the 10th year. However, for more complex underground mining operations with integrated processing and refining facilities, the divestment obligation is deferred, with the 51% requirement not applying until the 20th year of production.

This is how Freeport McMoran parent company, for instance lose their control in Grasberg mine in Papua, Indonesia, one of the largest copper and gold deposits in the world. They now only own 48.8% while the remaining 51.2% is now owned by Indonesia's state-owned enterprises and Indonesian private businesses. Also that is allegedly one of the main reason why some foreign countries try to help the separatist movement in Papua keep the issue afloat to help them gain independence. Also one of the main reason why some of Indonesian private companies who do not have experience in mining sector suddenly jump into the gravy train and become one of the most prominent businessmen and become very rich owing mining companies. Keep in mind Indonesia is a country with one of the largest nickel, tin, coal, copper reserve in the world. Natural resource nationalism will not necessarily be fully successful. Some of them did not end up well, A few of these Indonesia's private businessmen and high ranking officials of the state owned enterprise have been tried and sentenced in major corruption cases if you follow this thread.

Indonesia & Corruption: a few articles in the past few weeks

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/two-prominent-travel-industry-figures-arrested-in-indonesias-hajj-quota-scandal It's an endless stream...... When I try this link it comes back as Error 403. I also tried the Jakarta Globe with the same result. Then tried using a VPN to relocate in different places...

www.expatindo.org

Also keep in mind that just because they have not been caught does not mean they have been conducting their business with integrity or maintaining regulatory compliance.

 

[centurion]

Well, have you heard about Indonesia's mandatory divestment rule, especially in the mining, mineral, and coal sectors?

Foreign investors can initially own up to 100% of an Indonesian mining company (PT PMA), but Indonesia's regulatory framework strongly promotes resource nationalism through mandatory divestment requirements. Under the divestment rule, foreign shareholders are required to gradually divest their shares to Indonesian parties, such as the central or regional government, state-owned enterprises (BUMN), or Indonesian private companies until Indonesian ownership reaches at least 51%.

The divestment timeline depends on the type of mining operation. For most standard mining projects, divestment starts in the 5th year of commercial production and must reach 51% Indonesian ownership by the 10th year. However, for more complex underground mining operations with integrated processing and refining facilities, the divestment obligation is deferred, with the 51% requirement not applying until the 20th year of production.

This is how Freeport McMoran parent company, for instance lose their control in Grasberg mine in Papua, Indonesia, one of the largest copper and gold deposits in the world. They now only own 48.8% while the remaining 51.2% is now owned by Indonesia's state-owned enterprises and Indonesian private businesses. Also that is allegedly one of the main reason why some foreign countries try to help the separatist movement in Papua keep the issue afloat to help them gain independence. Also one of the main reason why some of Indonesian private companies who do not have experience in mining sector suddenly jump into the gravy train and become one of the most prominent businessmen and become very rich owing mining companies. Keep in mind Indonesia is a country with one of the largest nickel, tin, coal, copper reserve in the world. Natural resource nationalism will not necessarily be fully successful. Some of them did not end up well, A few of these Indonesia's private businessmen and high ranking officials of the state owned enterprise have been tried and sentenced in major corruption cases if you follow this thread.

Indonesia & Corruption: a few articles in the past few weeks

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/two-prominent-travel-industry-figures-arrested-in-indonesias-hajj-quota-scandal It's an endless stream...... When I try this link it comes back as Error 403. I also tried the Jakarta Globe with the same result. Then tried using a VPN to relocate in different places...

www.expatindo.org

Also keep in mind that just because they have not been caught does not mean they have been conducting their business with integrity or maintaining regulatory compliance.

Incorrect in at least 2 points.

 

[Bob]

No, nationalization of foreign-owned businesses is unheard of since Suharto’s time, it only happened during Sukarno’s time.

I knew a guy whose employer was deported and the business taken by locals, well after Sukarno was running things.

 

[pantaiema]

Incorrect in at least 2 points.

Mind to clarify what is it then incorrect ? Is it about the divestment rule ??

 

[centurion]

Mind to clarify what is it then incorrect ? Is it about the divestment rule ??

Yes. Freeport was obliged to divest 51% by the 2nd contract extension 1991, they never did, not by recent regulations. First contract gave them 100% ownership. They did just recently and they were paid pretty fair (3 bln USD I think). Not to mention they were declaring copper concentrate export for decades and extracting gold in the smelter in Japan. So they are not so damaged at all. They also fully control operationally the mine now.

Regular mines with IUP are a subject of divestment.

Second are Papuans, if anybody serious was supporting them, they would be heavily armed already.

 

[pantaiema]

Yes. Freeport was obliged to divest 51% by the 2nd contract extension 1991, they never did, not by recent regulations. First contract gave them 100% ownership. They did just recently and they were paid pretty fair (3 bln USD I think). Not to mention they were declaring copper concentrate export for decades and extracting gold in the smelter in Japan. So they are not so damaged at all. They also fully control operationally the mine now.

The strongest legal foundation is Article 33, para 3 of the constitution UUD1945 which states:
"Bumi dan air dan kekayaan alam yang terkandung di dalamnya dikuasai oleh negara dan dipergunakan untuk sebesar-besar kemakmuran rakyat."
"The land, the waters, and the natural resources contained therein shall be under the control of the State and shall be utilized for the greatest benefit and prosperity of the people."

The implementing legal framework was already established through UU_No_4_2009 on Mineral and Coal Mining. Article 112 required foreign-owned mining companies to divest shares to Indonesian entities after five years of production. But there is still a loophole in the wording mandated by UUD 45 Article 33, para 3 "....shall be under the control of the State "

UU_No_3_2020, which amended Law UU_No_4_2009, is closing this loophole by explicitly specifying the 51% divestment threshold, thereby closing ambiguities in the earlier legislation.

Freeport Indonesia officially reduced its ownership stake to 48.77% on 21 December 2018, e.g during the period between the enactment of UU_No_4_2009 and its amendment by Law UU_No_3_2020. Whether the company divested its majority stake primarily for commercial reasons or in anticipation of the amended law, which was widely expected to be enacted, as it implemented the constitutional mandate and clarified the existing divestment requirements by closing perceived loopholes; is ultimately a matter of personal interpretation.

Second are Papuans, if anybody serious was supporting them, they would be heavily armed already.

Ahhh, again, differentiate between fact and your personal opinion.

It is a fact that the United Liberation Movement for West Papua (ULMWP/OPM) has received support from foreign sources. For example, the government of Vanuatu has consistently advocated for Papuan self-determination in international forums. Indonesian authorities have also found in multiple occasions that insurgents have obtained weapons or funding from foreign sources or through cross-border networks, particularly involving Papua New Guinea. In addition, some OPM fighters have reportedly crossed into Papua New Guinea to evade operations by the Indonesian military and police, using the border region as a refuge.

If you would like to discuss this further rather than simple stating someone post is wrong just because of personal opinion then please open a new thread a more appropriate thread to discuss this.