Indonesia's (lack of) cybersecurity

[sumyunggai]

So I went to the supermarket and spent just below 3 million. 'There's a hadiah for you at the information desk'. So I went over there to get my free bottle of syrup or whatever it would be. But no, they gave some prize draw coupons, on which they wanted address, credit card number, phone number, name, and email. I filled in one (not with credit card number) and then they said 'you need to complete all five coupons', so I WTFed out of there, throwing the coupons in the trash.

Other examples, from the staff in the bank 'you should make your PIN all the same number', 'use your birthday', and similar stupidity.

Maybe they say this because in the event of fraud, the consumer pays, the joke is on us, hahaha.

 

[Anglian]

They are so trusting here at times, it's hard to believe

 

[Jim69]

I have had many fights in shops about credit cards.

You sign the slip, and of course your CC number only shows 4 digits, the cashier then wants to write the full number on the slip. I refuse, I even refuse to let them put the card in the till scanner.

At last now the chip and pin system is starting to spread, with these machines i wont even let the cashier hold my card. i put it in, enter the pin and take it out. They dont like it. Tough shit, thats how its supposed to be, to prevent card cloning.

 

[sumyunggai]

Oh and slightly related here was another one: 'we need your phone number'. Me 'Why' Her 'The boss says we have to take it' Me, 'Why so you can send me SMS in the middle of the night promoting something I don't want?' Her, 'No, we would never do that' Me - open phone, point to SMS showing 1:37am SMS from same company 'Bullshit, look at this' Her 'Sometimes the SMS don't get sent out on time.' Me 'Well that's your fault isn't it.'

Incidentally I tried to return/exchange some unopened goods in the same store (Mitra 10) and they told me it wasn't allowed. I said 'Why, I can exchange goods in the local shop no problem, why don't you let me do it?' Her 'It's the computer.' Me 'Don't you dare talk to me about computers, I am a computer programmer, and this is nothing to do with computers, it's the humans that set the rules. Besides, I returned something here before after your staff gave me the wrong goods.' Her 'Yes but we didn't give you the wrong goods this time, so it's your fault' Me 'You people are crazy, I can spend hundreds of millions of rupiah in your store, and yet you won't allow me to return/exchange some unopened goods costing 300,000 IDR'

Big companies in Indonesia charge ridiculous prices for a lot of products and they don't care about the customer.

 

[Davita]

Consumer protection laws in Indonesia, and most of Asia, are almost non-existing...the consumer has basically no rights excepting 'take it or leave it'. This was how the West was 60-70 years ago but advocate groups gradually forced their politicos to enact consumer protection laws and why, in the West, we can enjoy those privileges...and pay the price for the products.

Many stores in Western cities have sales with discounts up to 70%. I often wonder what was their mark-up in the first place...and how much does their return policy, for those that DO abuse the return policy, cost the other customers.

 

[Anglian]

My ex wife,bless her worked in M&S returned goods department in Cardiff , the young kids would wander round the store looking for goods receipts the customers had dropped, the kids would then look for the product and take it with their found receipt and claim the money back, I don't know if M&S here have a return policy as in the UK

 

[Smallworld]

.....

At last now the chip and pin system is starting to spread...

Ever since I came to Indonesia till now I am amazed how many different chip&pin terminals they have next to the cashier. Sometimes you can see 4 till 7-8 devices on each point of sale.

 

[jukung11]

Oh and slightly related here was another one: 'we need your phone number'. Me 'Why' Her 'The boss says we have to take it' Me, 'Why so you can send me SMS in the middle of the night promoting something I don't want?' Her, 'No, we would never do that' Me - open phone, point to SMS showing 1:37am SMS from same company 'Bullshit, look at this' Her 'Sometimes the SMS don't get sent out on time.' Me 'Well that's your fault isn't it.'

Do you they really need your number? I get messages when I just walk into places like malls. I never gave my number to anyone, ever! It happens all over the place and I find it creepy. Is it the cell service provider sending advertising based on my location or are there phone scanners in retailers? Anyone know how to shut this off?

 

[Smallworld]

Do you they really need your number? I get messages when I just walk into places like malls. I never gave my number to anyone, ever! It happens all over the place and I find it creepy. Is it the cell service provider sending advertising based on my location or are there phone scanners in retailers? Anyone know how to shut this off?

Change phone number or add another (new one) if you have phone for 2 sim cards.... second solution maybe install some mobile app to block numbers/txt msg.

 

[Euc-]

Do you they really need your number? I get messages when I just walk into places like malls. I never gave my number to anyone, ever! It happens all over the place and I find it creepy. Is it the cell service provider sending advertising based on my location or are there phone scanners in retailers? Anyone know how to shut this off?

Nope they don't need your number, Telkomsel (at least, but probably others do as well) have ways of targeting telephone numbers based on parameters. For example I could, as a private business, buy a x number of SMS messages to be send to a specified set of customers "Male/Female, Married/Single, Religion, Age, Spending per month." when they pass/enter a certain location.

Example: I'm a business in Bandung, I purchase 50.000 SMS to be send to all "Females, aged 28-49, Married, Any Religion, Spend more then 500rb on their monthly bill" that pass Rest Area 97 on the toll Jakarta - Bandung. Anyone passing that rest area and fitting my criteria will be receiving my sms.

No way to opt out or stop it as far as I'm aware.

Perhaps as Smallworld mentions install an app that only allows through SMS from numbers in your phone book? But that won't be a solution for some.

 

[Euc-]

Ever since I came to Indonesia till now I am amazed how many different chip&pin terminals they have next to the cashier. Sometimes you can see 4 till 7-8 devices on each point of sale.

Yeah, the benefits of not having one unified banking system

 

[jstar]

.

Do you they really need your number? I get messages when I just walk into places like malls. I never gave my number to anyone, ever! It happens all over the place and I find it creepy. Is it the cell service provider sending advertising based on my location or are there phone scanners in retailers?

Telkomsel is rather extreme in their SMS advertising. I never had it that bad with IndoSat or XL. But in many European malls nowadays, you get the store promo via Bluetooth when you walk by.

My ex wife,bless her worked in M&S returned goods department in Cardiff , the young kids would wander round the store looking for goods receipts the customers had dropped, the kids would then look for the product and take it with their found receipt and claim the money back, I don't know if M&S here have a return policy as in the UK

But I remember in Southern California quite some (well-off) ladies buying a dress for a special event and then leaving the tags in to return it to the store the next day.

At last now the chip and pin system is starting to spread, with these machines i wont even let the cashier hold my card. i put it in, enter the pin and take it out. They dont like it. Tough shit, thats how its supposed to be, to prevent card cloning.

I don't like the additional swipe by the department stores either. But in fact the "what is your ZiP code question" was rather similar. What bugs me a lot, is the optional PIN code over here. There was a mandatory roll out plan in place to even provide the cards without chips with a pincode. But if entering that code remains optional, as it is now, that is all useless.

 

[Smallworld]

Yeah, the benefits of not having one unified banking system

I don't know what is "happening in the background" in Indonesian Payment System or who is even regulating it. In UK we used APACS standard sets (to be more specific APACS 30 standard) for all chip&pin transactions.

 

[Jim69]

Yeah, the benefits of not having one unified banking system

I dont think that is the main reason, if certain cards are used in certain machines, the banks charge. So if you dont use the same card as the machine, the retailer can loose 3%, so they have different machines for different cards.

 

[jstar]

Just like that UKPA, other countries have similar systems of course. As CB in France, ec-Karte in Germany, IDeal in The Netherlands and Mister Cash in Belgium. So only one payment terminal in shops etc. supporting all national banks..obviously they need to pay for that.

And luckily the ATM's in the EU support each other's debit cards now with no costs involved. (If it is the same currency.) The problem remains the shops abroad; not all have EC/Maestro support (since the shops need to pay for that option) so then you can't pay with your debit card from country x in country y.

 

[Smallworld]

....

And luckily the ATM's in the EU support each other's debit cards now with no costs involved. (If it is the same currency.) The problem remains the shops abroad; not all have EC/Maestro support (since the shops need to pay for that option) so then you can't pay with your debit card from country x in country y.

Some payment cards may not work abroad ATM or C&P device. The payment card issuer is either forgetting to add new batch of payment card numbers to the system therefore the card payment processing company will decline transaction. Most often this is an issue between bank-payment processing company (Visa, Master ect) with a man in the middle like for eg. Wincor Nixdorf.
Another layer of problem was the POS systems with its own black/white lists of accepted card number ranges. Eg. you can buy groceries but cannot fuel.

 

[Exile]

Do you they really need your number? I get messages when I just walk into places like malls. I never gave my number to anyone, ever! It happens all over the place and I find it creepy. Is it the cell service provider sending advertising based on my location or are there phone scanners in retailers? Anyone know how to shut this off?

I called Telkomsel (my provider) & asked them to stop it, and they did.

 

[jukung11]

I called Telkomsel (my provider) & asked them to stop it, and they did.

Perfect. Thank you.