Indonesian police involved in 31 extrajudicial killings so far in 2024 ?

Do you have a list of the dead?
The group pushing the complaints is very political and very left wing. That in mind, I don't trust their 'facts'.
I didn't know human rights are left wing. A lot of leftist governments are and have been major violators.
 
I checked the police website they say everything was ok, no issues.
And I daresay if you asked the Kenyan police if everything was Ok I am sure they would say no issues.

In June 2008, the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights recorded the confessions of police officer Bernard Kirinya, who said he witnessed extrajudicial killings of 58 suspects by his colleagues, under orders from his superiors. Kirinya would be shot dead three months later.

Usually there are more than 100 extra judicial killings by Kenyan police each year. In 2022 the US State Department published an extensive report documenting such killings and torture. Or is that also too left wing a source to be trusted?
 
Kenyan police also no issues says their website. US Department of State report is imperialistic propaganda, misinformation basically.
 
Kenyan police also no issues says their website. US Department of State report is imperialistic propaganda, misinformation basically.
I have lost count of how many times I have been to Kenya and I lived there for two years. Police extra judicial killings were commonplace. So it seems any information that is not in line with your views is imperialistic propaganda. What then are your sources for "true" information?
 
I have lost count of how many times I have been to Kenya and I lived there for two years. Police extra judicial killings were commonplace. So it seems any information that is not in line with your views is imperialistic propaganda. What then are your sources for "true" information?
 
There is a big difference between spoken sarcasm and on the page. Spoken sarcasm is usually delivered with a particular tone so there is no mistake as to the intention. I wonder how many others picked up your remarks as sarcastic. Particularly as John Indonesia was attributing stories of human rights abuses to left wingers.
 
I didn't know human rights are left wing. A lot of leftist governments are and have been major violators.
Sorry. Human rights are more commonly claimed by the left before they ignore them.
Is that better?
 
I checked the police website they say everything was ok, no issues.
Just as the left wingers like to claim there are abuses, possible abusers tend to deny any knowledge.
To decide, we should have verifiable information.
Without that, it's a bootless accusation.
 
Not really. Respect for human rights isn't indicative of either left wing or right wing ideology.
Perhaps, but the most vocal human rights groups are pretty hard left.
At the end of the day, nobody has supplied any evidence to the general public. Until they do, we have to assume it's just a rant.
 
Perhaps, but the most vocal human rights groups are pretty hard left.
At the end of the day, nobody has supplied any evidence to the general public. Until they do, we have to assume it's just a rant.
I'd say they're pretty centrist and would be seen as hard left only by the hard right.
Is AI known for going on rants?
 
Perhaps, but the most vocal human rights groups are pretty hard left.
At the end of the day, nobody has supplied any evidence to the general public. Until they do, we have to assume it's just a rant.
This is such a nonsencical argument. "...nobody has supplied any evidence to the general public. Until they do, we have to assume it's just a rant."

Worldwide there are hundreds of human rights groups and thousands of detailed reports of human rights abuses. Most of these organizations have formed in response to disappearances and abuse. But if one wants to take the view that these are all leftist propaganda.... then there is no evidence.

 
I'd say they're pretty centrist and would be seen as hard left only by the hard right.
Is AI known for going on rants?
A different subject but AI is definitely left leaning and has been crippled intensely in a lot of subjects. Just a few minutes playing with ChatGPT and you can easily identify the bias and limitations.
 
A different subject but AI is definitely left leaning and has been crippled intensely in a lot of subjects. Just a few minutes playing with ChatGPT and you can easily identify the bias and limitations.
I forgot about that AI. I meant Amnesty International.
 
To the topic.
What we still don't have is any solid evidence. Until someone comes up with that, the conversation is moot.
Who did what to whom, and when did it happen?
If we don't know, we can't offer serious comments.
 
Let's look at both sides.
The police were accused of violence during the new law protests a few years ago.
This link shows a violent crowd throwing bricks at the police. Did Amnesty international call them out for excessive violence?
I took a while to read up a few stories over my Sunday morning coffee, and every piece I found showed the supposed victims started the violence the police are accused of.


The picture shows supposed students trying to injure or kill police officers.


This one is about an officer trying to break up a gang fight and getting attacked. The cop says fired one round in order to defend himself from a gang attack.
Did Amnesty condemn violent the gang members?
 
Let's look at both sides.
The police were accused of violence during the new law protests a few years ago.
This link shows a violent crowd throwing bricks at the police. Did Amnesty international call them out for excessive violence?
I took a while to read up a few stories over my Sunday morning coffee, and every piece I found showed the supposed victims started the violence the police are accused of.


The picture shows supposed students trying to injure or kill police officers.


This one is about an officer trying to break up a gang fight and getting attacked. The cop says fired one round in order to defend himself from a gang attack.
Did Amnesty condemn violent the gang members?
It is important to remember that police officers are human beings like everyone else, robocops have not been used. They have emotions, families, and personal lives, they could get injured from people throwing bricks, etc. Also how many policemen die due to people carrying weapon, machetes, swords, attack them. Similar to military personnel, they often find it challenging to refuse orders. I deeply sympathize with those officers on the ground, the pawn, diligently carrying out their duties to restore order for the whole society. Many of them demonstrate remarkable dedication and commitment to their work.

However, imo In Indonesia, the real issue lies in the recruitment, the vetting and promotion systems. Consider the recruitment the recruitment of policemen, there have been a few instances where even street vendors are willing to pay hundreds of millions of rupiahs for their sons to become a policeman. It is similar to the recruitment of civil services. Now, imagine what happens when individuals like this infiltrate the police force, civil services and the figure of people like in this instances are not small, it is not uncommon for such people to seek to recover their money back and exploit their power for personal gain. Until this fundamental issue is addressed, expect no change will happen in the police force and civil servants.
 
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Let's look at both sides.
The police were accused of violence during the new law protests a few years ago.
This link shows a violent crowd throwing bricks at the police. Did Amnesty international call them out for excessive violence?
I took a while to read up a few stories over my Sunday morning coffee, and every piece I found showed the supposed victims started the violence the police are accused of.


The picture shows supposed students trying to injure or kill police officers.


This one is about an officer trying to break up a gang fight and getting attacked. The cop says fired one round in order to defend himself from a gang attack.
Did Amnesty condemn violent the gang members?
I doubt they condemned the gang members but I don't think it's in their scope to condemn small time gang aggression.
 

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