Indonesian citizenship law

[Samoerai]

I just read this 'old' thread, because an Indonesian lawyer/notaris said that maybe my wife (WNI) lost her Indonesian citizenship, because she married me (WNA) and lived in The Netherlands for more than 5 years (legally documented with stay permit etc). I checked this online and found a thesis / citation of someone (Het Indonesisch Nationaliteitsrecht, 1993, 450 pages at University Maastricht in The Netherlands) about the laws Indonesian citizinship. It coveres also 'losing citizenship', because of the principle of citizenship that the "woman follows the man". This thesis describes that under the law of UU 1958 the WNI (wife)
will not(!) lose her Indonesian citizenship in the case that the WNI becomes stateless. She will lose her Indonesian citizenship in the situation that the WNI (wife) marries a WNA (husband) and lives in the country of her husband where she automatically gets the citizenship of her husband's country. Some countries have this particular law, like Turkey or Marokko or Syria I think. But my question is: in most countries the wife will not just automatically get her husband's cirizenship, so when formentioned priniple is still applied, the losing her Indonesians citizenship while living in her husband's country will make her stateless. The old law says: No, she can not become stateless, so the principle "wife follows husband" is not applied, she will keep her Indonesian citizenship. Is this still the case under the new law UU 12 /2006?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The only way she loses the Indonesian citizenship is by taking on another citizenship.

 

[Samoerai]

The only way she loses the Indonesian citizenship is by taking on another citizenship.

She never applied for a Dutch citizenship, which is a formal process in The Netherlands.

 

[fastpitch17]

She never applied for a Dutch citizenship, which is a formal process in The Netherlands.

Does she still have KTP, KK, Indonesian Passport. If so, just go to Indonesia and there should be no problems. If anything is expired you will need to make a trip to your nearest Indonesian Embassy/Consulate and get things in order. If Passport is expired they will probably issue her a Travel Permit good for 1 year with only one trip. Once back in Indonesia she can get everything in order.

 

[centurion]

I just read this 'old' thread, because an Indonesian lawyer/notaris said that maybe my wife (WNI) lost her Indonesian citizenship, because she married me (WNA) and lived in The Netherlands for more than 5 years (legally documented with stay permit etc). I checked this online and found a thesis / citation of someone (Het Indonesisch Nationaliteitsrecht, 1993, 450 pages at University Maastricht in The Netherlands) about the laws Indonesian citizinship. It coveres also 'losing citizenship', because of the principle of citizenship that the "woman follows the man". This thesis describes that under the law of UU 1958 the WNI (wife)
will not(!) lose her Indonesian citizenship in the case that the WNI becomes stateless. She will lose her Indonesian citizenship in the situation that the WNI (wife) marries a WNA (husband) and lives in the country of her husband where she automatically gets the citizenship of her husband's country. Some countries have this particular law, like Turkey or Marokko or Syria I think. But my question is: in most countries the wife will not just automatically get her husband's cirizenship, so when formentioned priniple is still applied, the losing her Indonesians citizenship while living in her husband's country will make her stateless. The old law says: No, she can not become stateless, so the principle "wife follows husband" is not applied, she will keep her Indonesian citizenship. Is this still the case under the new law UU 12 /2006?

Indonesian citizen cannot lose citizenship if that would make him/her stateless and 5 -year period reffers to being out without valid reason. This was defined by Government Regulation 2/2007.

 

[Samoerai]

Does she still have KTP, KK, Indonesian Passport. If so, just go to Indonesia and there should be no problems. If anything is expired you will need to make a trip to your nearest Indonesian Embassy/Consulate and get things in order. If Passport is expired they will probably issue her a Travel Permit good for 1 year with only one trip. Once back in Indonesia she can get everything in order.

We, my wife and I, are in Indonesia. She has ktp, kk and passport, all valid. Still, we want to check if there is a possibility that she lost her Indonesian citizenship. Logically thinking, she did not, but then again .. .. ..

 

[Helpful Herbert]

She never applied for a Dutch citizenship, which is a formal process in The Netherlands.

Well I think you have answered your own question

 

[fastpitch17]

We, my wife and I, are in Indonesia. She has ktp, kk and passport, all valid. Still, we want to check if there is a possibility that she lost her Indonesian citizenship. Logically thinking, she did not, but then again .. .. ..

She has not lost it. NIK works so she must be in the system. Suggest you find a different lawyer to talk to since the one you have been talking to is rather lost on the laws. Funny, a lawyer that doesn't know the law. Like that's an oddity. Once they stop lawyering they get jobs in the government where their experience with not knowing the laws is a prerequisite.

 

[Samoerai]

She has not lost it. NIK works so she must be in the system. Suggest you find a different lawyer to talk to since the one you have been talking to is rather lost on the laws. Funny, a lawyer that doesn't know the law. Like that's an oddity. Once they stop lawyering they get jobs in the government where their experience with not knowing the laws is a prerequisite.

Agree, it's odd .. but then again .. I am not surprised.

 

[jukung11]

Took me a bit to find this.

Article 39
The Minister shall announce names of the persons loosing citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia as meant in Articles 34 and 38 in State Gazette of the Republic of Indonesia.

Refworld | Indonesia: Government Regulation No 2 of 2007 Procedures for Obtaining, Losing, Nullifying and Regaining Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia

This is an unofficial translation.

www.refworld.org

Any Indonesian that loses citizenship must be submitted to the President of Indonesia and published publicly. Any Indonesian lawyer or law librarian should be able to look it up.

 

[pantaiema]

Any Indonesian that loses citizenship must be submitted to the President of Indonesia and published publicly. Any Indonesian lawyer or law librarian should be able to look it up.

A strong wording here "Must". It seems to me if this procedure has not been completed those Indonesian citizen who have taken another citizenship have not officially lost their Indonesian citizenship, do they ??

 

[Nimbus]

It seems to me if this procedure has not been completed those Indonesian citizen who have taken another citizenship have not officially lost their Indonesian citizenship, do they ??

They may not officially lose it, but I’m certain that the lack of official declaration wouldn’t stop the Indonesian government from treating them as foreign citizens in legal matters.

 

[Nimbus]

The law is kinda long, but basically you can only lose Indonesian citizenship if you gain another citizenship and/or swear allegiance to and serve in a government/military of a foreign country. The law specifically says that you cannot lose Indonesian citizenship if it makes you stateless.

 

[sumyunggai]

A strong wording here "Must". It seems to me if this procedure has not been completed those Indonesian citizen who have taken another citizenship have not officially lost their Indonesian citizenship, do they ??

The process of loss of citizenship is automatic in the case you taken on foreign citizenship. No need for publication.

Determined in 2021.

https://www.mkri.id/public/content/persidangan/putusan/putusan_mkri_7794.pdf

 

[Samoerai]

The process of loss of citizenship is automatic in the case you taken on foreign citizenship. No need for publication.

Determined in 2021.

https://www.mkri.id/public/content/persidangan/putusan/putusan_mkri_7794.pdf

Is there an English version? Plus: in which paragraph exactly is this mentioned?

 

[Nimbus]

The process of loss of citizenship is automatic in the case you taken on foreign citizenship. No need for publication.

Determined in 2021.

https://www.mkri.id/public/content/persidangan/putusan/putusan_mkri_7794.pdf

That is quite a long document. Thankfully it has interesting parts, like quotes by U.S. Supreme Court justices. I expected a ton of Dutch terms, but I found more English terms, even Latin. Clearly some of the panitera (clerks) are American law school graduates.

Anyway, the relevant passage is on page 168.

“Kepemilikan paspor Amerika Serikat demikian, maupun paspor negara asing lainnya, jika merujuk pada Pasal 23 huruf h junctis huruf a dan huruf b UU 12/2006, membawa konsekuensi bahwa yang bersangkutan, yaitu Orient Patriot Riwu Kore, seharusnya secara serta-merta kehilangan statusnya sebagai Warga Negara Indonesia tanpa harus melalui mekanisme administratif pelepasan kewarganegaraan. Terlebih pada tahun 2017 diterbitkan paspor Amerika Serikat atas nama Orient Patriot Riwu Kore (berlaku 2017-2027) sebagai kelanjutan paspor Amerika Serikat sebelumnya. Terbitnya paspor tersebut menurut Mahkamah meneguhkan status yang bersangkutan sebagai Warga Negara Amerika Serikat.”

 

[Samoerai]

That is quite a long document. Thankfully it has interesting parts, like quotes by U.S. Supreme Court justices. I expected a ton of Dutch terms, but I found more English terms, even Latin. Clearly some of the panitera (clerks) are American law school graduates.

Anyway, the relevant passage is on page 168.

“Kepemilikan paspor Amerika Serikat demikian, maupun paspor negara asing lainnya, jika merujuk pada Pasal 23 huruf h junctis huruf a dan huruf b UU 12/2006, membawa konsekuensi bahwa yang bersangkutan, yaitu Orient Patriot Riwu Kore, seharusnya secara serta-merta kehilangan statusnya sebagai Warga Negara Indonesia tanpa harus melalui mekanisme administratif pelepasan kewarganegaraan. Terlebih pada tahun 2017 diterbitkan paspor Amerika Serikat atas nama Orient Patriot Riwu Kore (berlaku 2017-2027) sebagai kelanjutan paspor Amerika Serikat sebelumnya. Terbitnya paspor tersebut menurut Mahkamah meneguhkan status yang bersangkutan sebagai Warga Negara Amerika Serikat.”

Thanks, to make sure .. a WNI living abroad for more than 5 years, does not lose her Indonesian citizinship automatically, right? Or does, but not in the case that it will make this WNI stateless. I ask this because this thread started with a statement that a WNI lose citizenship in the case of 5 years abroad. See photo.

 

[centurion]

Thanks, to make sure .. a WNI living abroad for more than 5 years, does not lose her Indonesian citizinship automatically, right? Or does, but not in the case that it will make this WNI stateless. I ask this because this thread started with a statement that a WNI lose citizenship in the case of 5 years abroad. See photo.

Does not lose automatically unless it makes you stateless (meaning you lose the citizenship if you are out of the country for more than 5 years without valid reason and you get another citizenship-in that case stripping you of Indonesian citizenship will not make you stateless).

 

[Nimbus]

Chapter IV article 23.i of Law No. 12 year 2006

Warga Negara Indonesia kehilangan kewarganegaraannya jika yang bersangkutan:

i. bertempat tinggal di luar wilayah negara Republik Indonesia selama 5 (lima) tahun terus-menerus bukan dalam rangka dinas negara, tanpa alasan yang sah dan dengan sengaja tidak menyatakan keinginannya untuk tetap menjadi Warga Negara Indonesia sebelum jangka waktu 5 (lima) tahun itu berakhir, dan setiap 5 (lima) tahun berikutnya yang bersangkutan tidak mengajukan pernyataan ingin tetap menjadi Warga Negara Indonesia kepada Perwakilan Republik Indonesia yang wilayah kerjanya meliputi tempat tinggal yang bersangkutan padahal Perwakilan Republik Indonesia tersebut telah memberitahukan secara tertulis kepada yang bersangkutan, sepanjang yang bersangkutan tidak menjadi tanpa kewarganegaraan.

If you only have Indonesian citizenship yet you fail to declare the intent to remain an Indonesian citizen every 5 years, stripping you of Indonesian citizenship would make you stateless, which is specifically prohibited by the law. This means as long as you never got another citizenship, you will remain an Indonesian citizen.

 

[Samoerai]

Chapter IV article 23.i of Law No. 12 year 2006

Warga Negara Indonesia kehilangan kewarganegaraannya jika yang bersangkutan:

i. bertempat tinggal di luar wilayah negara Republik Indonesia selama 5 (lima) tahun terus-menerus bukan dalam rangka dinas negara, tanpa alasan yang sah dan dengan sengaja tidak menyatakan keinginannya untuk tetap menjadi Warga Negara Indonesia sebelum jangka waktu 5 (lima) tahun itu berakhir, dan setiap 5 (lima) tahun berikutnya yang bersangkutan tidak mengajukan pernyataan ingin tetap menjadi Warga Negara Indonesia kepada Perwakilan Republik Indonesia yang wilayah kerjanya meliputi tempat tinggal yang bersangkutan padahal Perwakilan Republik Indonesia tersebut telah memberitahukan secara tertulis kepada yang bersangkutan, sepanjang yang bersangkutan tidak menjadi tanpa kewarganegaraan.

If you only have Indonesian citizenship yet you fail to declare the intent to remain an Indonesian citizen every 5 years, stripping you of Indonesian citizenship would make you stateless, which is specifically prohibited by the law. This means as long as you never got another citizenship, you will remain an Indonesian citizen.

Thank you for explaining this article, which is an extreme long sentence btw. Difficult to understand what exactly is meant.