Indonesia set to introduce strict new law banning sex outside of marriage

[Will_M]

Can ane ane lama report on ane ane baru ?

 

[fastpitch17]

From the reporting I have seen concerning wording, it seems like any 2 males or 2 females, no matter their sexual orientation, living together for economic reasons could be reported.

3 years from now there should be a large group if people who have figured out how to profit from this.

 

[snpark]

Adultery, or sexual intercourse not between a husband and a wife, is a crime punishable by up to one year in prison under RKUHP. Only close relatives (spouse, parents, or children), who may be negatively impacted by adultery or sex outside marriage, can report people for this crime.

 

[snpark]

Only close relatives
Not bitter ex's

 

[Vlerkprauw]

Can't really see this happening unless it is in certain areas of the country. On top of that, a number of different ministries would have to approve it before going to the president. Also, don't believe everything the media says. The only quotes I see are coming from a guy whose background is criminal law and is a deputy minister. Plus only selected groups can 'report' it. even if it were somehow to pass.

Can you explain what you mean exactly? See what happening? What would need to be approved by several ministries and the president? The new Criminal Code law? This aspect of the new Criminal Code law? My understanding is that it has now already been ratified into law. Is that a process you expect to be reversed somehow? Or is the process not final yet? Or do you expect it not to be acted upon, at least in most parts of the country?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Only close relatives
Not bitter ex's

Well a bitter ex can still report as long as the divorce has not been finalised, since legally speaking they are still married. Not sure how they would prove such a "crime" though. Imagine how much it would cost to take it to the police as well.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Oh great, yet another BBC front page article, so I'm sure I'll be getting lots of concerned messages from back home, just like whenever there is an earthquake or something.
Can't Indonesia do something to get on the front pages of Western newspapers that does not include natural disasters or weird laws?

 

[harryopal1]

According to local TV news this evening the parliament approved the new laws which will come in to effect within two or three years.

 

[snpark]

The new criminal code will come into effect within three years of its passing, i.e. before Dec. 6, 2025. That’s more than enough time to get acquainted with some of the newest provisions so we can all stay out of trouble.

 

[snpark]

Adultery, or sexual intercourse not between a husband and a wife, is a crime punishable by up to one year in prison under RKUHP. Only close relatives (spouse, parents, or children), who may be negatively impacted by adultery or sex outside marriage, can report people for this crime.

 

[pantaiema]

Indonesia in the spotlight today

Indonesia bans sex outside marriage as parliament passes sweeping new criminal code | CNN

Indonesian lawmakers unanimously passed a sweeping new criminal code on Tuesday that criminalizes sex outside marriage, as part of a tranche of changes that critics say threaten human rights and freedoms in the Southeast Asian country.

edition.cnn.com

Indonesia passes criminal code banning sex outside marriage

New laws will disproportionately punish women, LGBT people and religious minorities, critics say.

www.bbc.com

Indonesia bans sex outside marriage in new criminal code

By Ananda Teresia and Kate Lamb JAKARTA (Reuters) -Indonesia's parliament approved a new criminal code on Tuesday that bans sex outside marriage with a punishment of up to one year in jail, despite worries the laws may scare away tourists from its tropical shores and harm investment. The new...

www.swissinfo.ch

Indonesia passes legislation banning sex outside marriage

Rights groups say amended criminal code underscores shift towards fundamentalism

www.theguardian.com

Ehmmm, Not going to happen oi ....
The law will be there and ready to punish everyone who break it. The development of forensic science make it easy to find evidence. Nowadays even a cold case more than a hundred years ago could still be revealed ....................

 

[Bob]

@pantaiema
I think that you are missing the bigger picture and focusing on a single issue, The whole package coming is in the form of a completely new (not change or amendment) of the Criminal Code.

The present Criminal Law is from 1918, so the change of this kind is a once-in-a-century event, considering the slow work of the Indonesian legislation and reaching a consensus.

So the country's ruling elites have reached a consensus to consolidate their power, and impose controls over the society, to the detriment of human and civil rights. The new Criminal Code does just that, criminalizing offenses to the government in the widest sense, right to protest, reducing penalties for corruption, and some morality clauses such as the prohibition of cohabitation, ban on selling any contraceptive devices sto minors etc.

In the prohibition of cohabitation the ones who can report you are your parents or your own children, no matter that the "perpetrators" could be fully consenting adults. This will create a situation of widespread intergenerational societal control, where kids can report fathers/mothers, fathers/mothers can report their kids, etc for the whole lifetime.

This change does not come in form of some government regulation that can easily be reversed, but in a form of a law change that is sending the country back to the factory "New Order" settings. Last time in 2019, the law was removed from the parliament session only because of serious backlash and demonstrations with death casualties, the one that is now missing.

I'd say pre-1998 laws were not nearly as restrictive as this.

 

[Bob]

I don't think it's that different from existing practices. Of course it could be used by irreputable establishments to blackmail customers. Imagine, a tourist goes for a ++massage, then the husband of the lady comes in and demands money from the tourist or he'll go to the police. On the other hand there are always plenty of laws here that people can use against you if they want, for example the pornography law.
Certainly won't be implemented in Bali, that's for sure. Also won't stop people being nakal either.
Now if they passed an Iranian-style law making all women wear the jilbab, with accompanying morality police like in backward places like Aceh, that could get interesting.

If it's national law it will apply everywhere. Don't forget Bali has its share of religious hardliners too, just not primarily the brand you don't like.
As for Aceh being singled out as 'backward', I'd recommend travelling around the country for comparison. You'd find a lot of churches in places with similar or lower social development marks.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I still think this issue is being exaggerated by the Western media. There are already many laws that can be misused to settle personal vendettas. People are already regularly jailed for blasphemy. Places like Dubai have even stricter laws but a thriving tourist industry. I don't really see how this law makes anything worse. For me the worst part is not being able to criticise the president under threat of criminal prosecution, because with the wrong person as president that could definitely prevent an opposition from operating properly. Indonesia is already in a minority in this region, having a functioning democracy, but it may well not last.

 

[dafluff]

Well a bitter ex can still report as long as the divorce has not been finalised, since legally speaking they are still married.

This has always been the case. Extramarital sex by a married person has always been illegal, punishable by jail time if they are reported by the other married party. The only thing that has changed is that the max sentence is now 1 year from 9 months previously.

The new part of the legislation is where sex between unmarried people can now be prosecuted IF REPORTED BY A PARENT OR A CHILD. I submit the number of parents who will report their own children and have them go to jail for having sex is probably very small. Children who will report their parent is probably a bit more likely, if they hate their own parents. Still, dealing with the police is something that all Indonesians avoid as much as possible anyway.

None of the "extramarital" clauses in the new law amount to anything other than western press breathlessly reporting it cause it sells clicks. That stuff isn't even in the top 10 of most concerning things about the law.

Notably, none of these newspapers from bastions of democracy are reporting on the much more problematic articles (not an exhaustive list):

1. No insulting the President or government bodies. You want to vent about your experience with immigration? Better be careful.
2. No spreading of ideolgy contrary to Pancasila. Are you an atheist? Better not mention that in public. Communist? Capitalist? Same.
3. No sedition (makar). If you support an independent Papua, or Aceh or wherever, you may want to keep that to yourself.
4. No spreading fake news. Be careful forwarding WA articles, I guess. Conveniently leaves out who the arbiter of what news is fake is determined.
5. As a bonus, the minimum sentence for corruption has been lowered to 2 years.

 

[dafluff]

Moderation note: The two threads on this topic have been merged into one.

 

[centurion]

. I submit the number of parents who will report their own children and have them go to jail for having sex is probably very small.

Probably, but they could report them for cohabitation-living as an unmarried couple, by parents or children of both sides (interestingly no matter of religion).

Both articles 415 about out-of marriage sex and 416 about cohabitation have a provision that complaints can be withdrawn before the trial. This means that these articles are primarily for societal control and enforcement of virtuous behavior.

 

[Banana72]

last time i went to Vietnam (pre-pandemic) with my wife...nobody asked us about marriage certificate and she didn't take on my last name also. So I wonder if some hotels do a bit of profiling too...(example...say much older guy or foreign..with really young Vietnamese/Asian gf....etc).

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Probably, but they could report them for cohabitation-living as an unmarried couple, by parents or children of both sides (interestingly no matter of religion).

Both articles 415 about out-of marriage sex and 416 about cohabitation have a provision that complaints can be withdrawn before the trial. This means that these articles are primarily for societal control and enforcement of virtuous behavior.

There are a lot of parents in Indonesia that would be unhappy with their kids "living in sin". It's not so long ago since that was the case in the West too, it still is in many places. However trying to persuade them to get married by ... reporting them to the police and asking for jail time, doesn't seem a great way to solve the problem. Even if they hate their daughter's BF and want them to split up, reporting both of them to the police (potentially giving your own daughter a criminal record) again doesn't seem a very likely course of action. Using it as a threat could be something that some people might do?

 

[ukcouple]

No matter how the law is applied and whatever the workarounds are, the fact is that the word is now out in Europe, the US, Australia etc that sex before marriage even for tourists is punishable with a prison sentence in Indonesia.

The consequence is that lots of people will be put off coming to Indonesia for a holiday now.

Indonesia has shot itself in the foot with this move. An alcohol ban hasn't been mentioned but may be coming next.