Indonesia Second Home Programme - All Retirement Stay Permits Abolished and Existing Holders Scheduled for Expulsion in Case of Non-Compliance

[snpark]

Why waste 2b. Just be a digital nomad. There's no difference.

 

[Banana72]

Wow that article has so many errors:

"The policy allows foreigners to buy both land and apartments and gives them permanent ownership and the right to resell." [no it doesn't]
"The visa is available to anyone who can show proof of funds in their bank account of USD 130,000." [not "their" bank account but a state bank]
"an opportunity for those who have forfeited their Indonesian citizenship in favor of stronger international passports due to work, family, or relationships and those who were born into the Indonesian diaspora" [there is already an ex-WNI path for these people]
"The visa targets high earners, retirees, and highly skilled digital nomads to invest in building a life in Indonesia." Building a life then after 10 years get kicked out?

I think I even saw a 'short video' from either Imigration's Instagram or facebook about the Indonesia Second Home being an alternative for 'ex-wni' to go back to Indonesia...

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Tourism Ministry collabs with AirBnB to lure digital nomads to Bali | Coconuts

The Ministry of Tourism and Creative Economy recently announced their collaboration with popular rental platform AirBnB with the launch of the latter’s page, Live and Work Anywhere Bali.

coconuts.co

"It pointed out that since September 2022, remote workers in Bali have been able to obtain a B211A visa (for tourism/business purposes) to work remotely for up to six months, income tax-free."
Surely that is also incorrect?

 

[centurion]

B211 is the "nomad visa".

 

[Ruserious]

(for tourism/business purposes) to work remotely for up to six months

There used to be a real distinction between business purposes and work but it seems like the tourism ministry is purposly trying to blurr that line.

 

[snpark]

Yeh they can use the B211 now but it has changed, its 2jt for 2 months plus the fee plus the agent etc, no more 60 days and the 4x30
Now its 60 days, new, 60 days new etc which yes we argued about this is exactly the same really lol but more expensive

So retire, cost 2b rp and 1 x year go to immi
Or 2jt every 2 months dont even need to fly out
Neither of them have to pay income tax

I suppose if you are retired once a year you go to SG Mt Liz for your medical and buy a bottle
Or Maybe go to Monaco on your yacht for a month etc

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I just checked the website for the B211A visa:

Visa Kunjungan Satu Kali Perjalanan- B211A - Direktorat Jenderal Imigrasi

www.imigrasi.go.id

There is nothing about being able to work. And certainly nothing about not having to pay tax.

It seems to be like the old business visa where you can have meetings but not work. This is what is allowed under the B211A:

Business talks and meetings	Discuss, negotiate, or sign business contracts but not supervise production activities to producers/sellers as a regular activity
Government official visits	Visiting a place or carrying out a duty as a government official
Government official visits for specific events	Visiting a place or carrying out a duty as a government official for Indonesia's presidency in the G20 , the 144th International Session of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) , or the 2022 Global Platform for Disaster Risk Reduction (GDPRR)
Meetings	Participate in meetings held by the head office or representative office in Indonesia.
Purchasing goods	Purchasing goods but not supervising production activities to producers/sellers as a regular activity.

Also:

Tourism purposes

Foreign nationals can visit places for recreational and personal development or learn about the uniqueness of cultures and tourist attractions. The visa also includes visitors using a yacht.yacht).

 

[R Cameron]

Actually, it looks like the retirement visa has been canceled with the Omnibus Law-it went unnoticed:

It did not go unnoticed, myself and many others noticed, but it has been given very little explanation before this news last week.

 

[R Cameron]

The Indonesian Tourism Ministry (headed by Sandiaga Uno) and the Bali government (particularly the governor and province tourism board) frequently promote working remotely in Bali, but they have no agreement from Immigration, Manpower, or Tax departments which supercede them in important ways.

Practically speaking, it is easy and very rarely troublesome for foreigners to use B211 in Bali while working for foreign clients doing work that is unrelated to Indonesia. But it is not technically approved, and nothing the tourism ministry says can change that.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The Indonesian Tourism Ministry (headed by Sandiaga Uno) and the Bali government (particularly the governor and province tourism board) frequently promote working remotely in Bali, but they have no agreement from Immigration, Manpower, or Tax departments which supercede them in important ways.

Practically speaking, it is easy and very rarely troublesome for foreigners to use B211 in Bali while working for foreign clients doing work that is unrelated to Indonesia. But it is not technically approved, and nothing the tourism ministry says can change that.

I guess "not technically approved" means "illegal".
Also I don't see any difference in validity of the B211 between Bali and Jakarta or other places - unless Bali has a specific regulation about it that other provinces don't?

 

[R Cameron]

I guess "not technically approved" means "illegal".

By some interpretations, yes, illegal. But this is Indonesia, very little is black and white. By the strictest interpretation an Australian businessman on holiday for 5 days in Bali who answers just one work email is illegally working. Of course that would be absurd to prosecute, but "Digital Nomads" whose work is for a foreign company are doing the exact same thing, just more hours per day and more days per year.

Also I don't see any difference in validity of the B211 between Bali and Jakarta or other places - unless Bali has a specific regulation about it that other provinces don't?

The relevant laws are national, but enforcement is conducted by local offices. I do not know how strictly the immigration offices of most provinces interpret "work", but it is clear that the Bali offices have a very permissive interpretation.

 

[snpark]

Don't forget you shouldn't be sleeping together unless you're married
Cue 5* hotel marketing email campaign for weddings showing a couple checking in and getting married in the ball room

I presume then legally married before the wedding or they took seperate rooms?
Lol

 

[Teabag]

Tourism Ministry collabs with AirBnB to lure digital nomads to Bali | Coconuts

The Ministry of Tourism and Creative Economy recently announced their collaboration with popular rental platform AirBnB with the launch of the latter’s page, Live and Work Anywhere Bali.

coconuts.co

Funny, ".... the collaboration would allow millions of remote workers to find the best places and deals in Bali....." as if millions will come now because of this stupid new visa.

AirBnB deleted the IDR as currency from their portal about 2 years ago. Customers can no longer pay in Rupiah, so AirBnb is no longer a big player in Indonesia. Better they would go with Agoda

 

[snpark]

I thought they banned Airbnb years ago because of the tax issue as in none of the government were getting a cut whereas hotels have to charge 21% etc ?

 

[Teabag]

I thought they banned Airbnb years ago because of the tax issue as in none of the government were getting a cut whereas hotels have to charge 21% etc ?

You still can book apartments or rooms via AirBNB in Indonesia. But not in Rupiah, therefore in USD. At least in Bandung are a couple rooms online.

 

[pantaiema]

Wow that article has so many errors:

"The policy allows foreigners to buy both land and apartments and gives them permanent ownership and the right to resell." [no it doesn't]
"The visa is available to anyone who can show proof of funds in their bank account of USD 130,000." [not "their" bank account but a state bank]
"an opportunity for those who have forfeited their Indonesian citizenship in favor of stronger international passports due to work, family, or relationships and those who were born into the Indonesian diaspora" [there is already an ex-WNI path for these people]
"The visa targets high earners, retirees, and highly skilled digital nomads to invest in building a life in Indonesia." Building a life then after 10 years get kicked out?

The properties developers, property salesmen aiming for big commission have been spreading this information for many years to confuse or might even have a deliberate intention to con the clueless potential foreign buyers thinking they might have got a bargain, they have got the same right similar to what the Indonesian People enjoy e.g "hak milik" (freehold)

 

[Wally]

My visa agent tells me that the South Jakarta immigration office is continuing to process retriement visas

 

[gringotraveller]

it will be madness for the gov to continue with that bill, hoping a renig is shortly coming

 

[londo]

And my agent just assured me that the one year retirement visas are still valid until their original expiration dates.

Has anyone heard differently?

 

[Teabag]

it will be madness for the gov to continue with that bill, hoping a renig is shortly coming

It'll be a full U-Turn, after the G20 BS is over and eyes not on Bali anymore.