Indonesia Second Home Programme - All Retirement Stay Permits Abolished and Existing Holders Scheduled for Expulsion in Case of Non-Compliance

[kripik-pisang]

Another part of this law which I don't think has been mentioned is that freedom of speech will be seriously curtailed with this law its no longer permissible to "insult" the president or vice president which can be interpreted as any kind of criticism. Punishment can range from fines to prison sentences, The Financial times quoted, " Andreas Harsono, an Indonesia researcher for Human Rights Watch, said the new legislation could endanger sexual, religious and ethnic minorities and was a “sad day for freedom of expression and press freedom”. “The problem with this oppressive law is it cannot be broadly enforced,” Harsono said. “It can only be enforced selectively, meaning that it will provide an avenue for extortion. It is a political weapon to jail opponents and creates an atmosphere of fear.”

 

[harryopal1]

Another part of this law which I don't think has been mentioned is that freedom of speech will be seriously curtailed with this law its no longer permissible to "insult" the president or vice president which can be interpreted as any kind of criticism. Punishment can range from fines to prison sentences, The Financial times quoted, " Andreas Harsono, an Indonesia researcher for Human Rights Watch, said the new legislation could endanger sexual, religious and ethnic minorities and was a “sad day for freedom of expression and press freedom”. “The problem with this oppressive law is it cannot be broadly enforced,” Harsono said. “It can only be enforced selectively, meaning that it will provide an avenue for extortion. It is a political weapon to jail opponents and creates an atmosphere of fear.”

Indonesia seems to have been lucky with Joko as President who comes across as benign and without the arrogance of many leaders. As to what happens with the next president....????

 

[jstar]

Yep, can you imagine Prabowo or even Anies? And the two Java governors are also rather traditional. A nice return to Soeharto times.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I can't help thinking there are dark times coming for Indonesia post-Jokowi

 

[kripik-pisang]

Indonesia seems to have been lucky with Joko as President who comes across as benign and without the arrogance of many leaders. As to what happens with the next president....????

Strange then that Jokowi supported this law.

 

[harryopal1]

It was part of that omnibus bill that also carried reformist laws that Joko hoped would streamline and modernize employment issues. I imagine that pressures to get that through enabled conservatives to agree as long as these other laws that endanger freedom of speech were included. At the same time the attempts to streamline employment processes have also stirred up labor unions. I guess one might develop an academic career and a book teasing out all the issues and deals around this package of contentious laws. Such is the entangled nature of politics and politicians that people outside these intrigues seem to offer freshness and hope. Those dynamics apparently engendered the feeling that made Trump so appealing in the US and the dreadful Pauline Hanson in Australia. A tricky path to tread for someone like Joko whose heart seems in the right place but is necessarily enmeshed in these political processes. No straight path to follow without your foot falling into a pile of mud along the way.

 

[pantaiema]

Indonesia seems to have been lucky with Joko as President who comes across as benign and without the arrogance of many leaders. As to what happens with the next president....????

What I could easily see here is that he is fighting against corruption seriously, He is not using the religious sentiment for his advantage like many other Indonesian politicians did in the past.
Corruption and religious extremism are among the major causes that hinder the Indonesian development, a country with large natural resources.

 

[centurion]

Yep, can you imagine Prabowo or even Anies? And the two Java governors are also rather traditional. A nice return to Soeharto times.

I disagree at this point. Jokowi was elected by the people to uphold democracy and develop the country.
Under Joko, the country saw the new Criminal Law reducing many liberties., constitutional standards are bent, the country is governed with decrees instead of laws (New Presidential Regulation on Omnibus Law), and nonloyal constitutional judges are replaced by unconstitutional means. Pepper that with reducing the power of KPK, widespread corruption, and increased use of criminalization of the public speech via UU ITE law. Economical reforms are a story of their own, but SBY beats him by a lot in this part. The business became more complicated to operate during the incumbent. The positive part, a lot of infrastructures has been built.

If this is how the Jokowis mandate will end, it was better to elect Prabowo in the first place. It is very likely that with him, none of the above would happen, as the public would be much more critical of him.

 

[Wally]

I disagree at this point. Jokowi was elected by the people to uphold democracy and develop the country.
Under Joko, the country saw the new Criminal Law reducing many liberties., constitutional standards are bent, the country is governed with decrees instead of laws (New Presidential Regulation on Omnibus Law), and nonloyal constitutional judges are replaced by unconstitutional means. Pepper that with reducing the power of KPK, widespread corruption, and increased use of criminalization of the public speech via UU ITE law. Economical reforms are a story of their own, but SBY beats him by a lot in this part. The business became more complicated to operate during the incumbent. The positive part, a lot of infrastructures has been built.

If this is how the Jokowis mandate will end, it was better to elect Prabowo in the first place. It is very likely that with him, none of the above would happen, as the public would be much more critical of him.

Yes, I agree that SBY was strict in tackling corruption and refused to weaken the KPK. Jokowi makes concessions to his opponents to keep them on his side, weakening the fight against corruption and reducing human rights. (I hope I don't get sent to jail for crticising the president)

 

[pantaiema]

Yes, I agree that SBY was strict in tackling corruption and refused to weaken the KPK. Jokowi makes concessions to his opponents to keep them on his side, weakening the fight against corruption and reducing human rights. (I hope I don't get sent to jail for crticising the president)

SBY seriously fighting against corruption ??? Let see ...
A few to name corruption involving his chorines, E-KTP Graft, Bank century, Hambalang, A Project Worth IDR 2.5 Trillion In The SBY Era Corrupted By The Democrat Elite: State Losses Reach IDR 706 Billion ???
google it there are tons of them.

 

[Wally]

SBY seriously fighting against corruption ??? Let see ...
A few to name corruption involving his chorines, E-KTP Graft, Bank century, Hambalang, A Project Worth IDR 2.5 Trillion In The SBY Era Corrupted By The Democrat Elite: State Losses Reach IDR 706 Billion ???
google it there are tons of them.

Yes, all true!

 

[centurion]

Thrue, but he did not institutionally weakend

SBY seriously fighting against corruption ??? Let see ...
A few to name corruption involving his chorines, E-KTP Graft, Bank century, Hambalang, A Project Worth IDR 2.5 Trillion In The SBY Era Corrupted By The Democrat Elite: State Losses Reach IDR 706 Billion ???
google it there are tons of them.

Thrue, but he did not institutionally weakend the KPK. That is a reason the mentioned people are in jail, btw.

 

[jstar]

Don’t forget in 2014 the KPK was the demanding party to alter the criminal code & law procedure and SBY(‘s government) did not go along. So the cards here can change rapidly.

The point is not so much if or how Jokowi ‘paved the way’ for potential dictators but what his successor is gonna do.

 

[Digitarius]

Any further updates on this Second Home project??

 

[IndoTom]

Any further updates on this Second Home project??

My guess is it is a popular as the revised Malaysian "My Second Home" project that was changed last year. Basically a complete failure that none applied.

 

[londo]

This thread seems to have meandered off into politics and then petered out, but I thought I'd try to revive it a bit since I didn't find any other thread with newer info on the retirement visa situation.

I recently renewed mine with all the same prices and requirements as before. I assume others have had the same experiences?

Friends sometimes ask me for info on this visa, but I realized I don't really know if they are still giving new ones out. Has anyone got a NEW retirement visa recently?

Any other news or rumors on this front would also be of interest!

 

[snpark]

Well you just renewed yours right? So more accurate you tell us how long it took and cost you and what exactly you got? Because this thread relates to a new possible potential visa.

 

[londo]

snpark, are you saying this thread isn't about the situation of the retirement visa? Sure looked like it started out that way, and yes I read the whole thing, much of it soon after it was posted. Nothing had been added since January. If there's a more appropriate thread on this topic, please point me towards it.

Otherwise I was hoping to hear from anyone who recently received a first retirement visa, or knows someone who has, as I don't want to tell friends who might be interested to check it out further if they are not giving them out anymore.

Price was as you can find on the internet. Renewal was very quick. Less than a week. One year visa, just like before, including multiple entries.

 

[snpark]

Actually I thought it was about the new one coming soon with the 2b rp requirement supposed to be for digital nomads etc but became entwined with the existing retirement kitas/p ?

Because the new one is not launched yet ? So I presume you renewed the old existing version?

 

[snpark]

Sorry if my tone came across harsh