Identifying serious offers - what to pay attention to when purchasing land

waarmstrong

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The discussion is pretty much devoid of reality. The buyer, the seller, the notary will each accept the deal that provides the greatest benefit to themselves, which usually means the exchange, as reported to the tax office, takes place at the assessed value.
 

HappyMan

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Access to water is also to consider but, regarding negotiation with neighbors, probably a less problematic topic since in most cases you can drill for water - and in most areas it is also possible to have water delivered in case of road access.
If there is no water access, then finding out about the local drilling situation is exactly the sort of thing you would want to do. Turns out the local well depth here is around 100 meters and I've had several offers to drill for around 800,000 per meter. So, 80 jt for a well... We actually have PDAM, so this is not a pressing matter, but if the land had been purchased with the intention of drilling a cheap well, I would have a problem.
 

make_batik_great_again

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Number 2 if you want to stay 100% legal.

Yes, Notary should moderate, but in the end, what they really care about is that the transaction goes through so that they get paid.

I just wonder why the notary would do so and why the notary would not insist on everything going by the rules. I mean, the notary would get in quite a trouble as well if it comes to light that an incorrect amount was declared, wouldn´t he/she?
 

make_batik_great_again

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If there is no water access, then finding out about the local drilling situation is exactly the sort of thing you would want to do. Turns out the local well depth here is around 100 meters and I've had several offers to drill for around 800,000 per meter. So, 80 jt for a well... We actually have PDAM, so this is not a pressing matter, but if the land had been purchased with the intention of drilling a cheap well, I would have a problem.

Fair point. In some areas, I heard, it is also possible to get water delivered by a water truck which fills up the water tank of the house then. Might also be a solution if drilling leads to financial (or other) problems. But I don´t know the average costs of the water delivery suppliers. And probably also not the most environment friendly solution :p
 

Pak Tani

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Fair point. In some areas, I heard, it is also possible to get water delivered by a water truck which fills up the water tank of the house then. Might also be a solution if drilling leads to financial (or other) problems. But I don´t know the average costs of the water delivery suppliers. And probably also not the most environment friendly solution :p
You'll be needing one or more large water containers then. And worse, probably, you'll be dependable on the delivery of water.
In the past we used to have electricity outages every now and then when the PLN was rearranging the grid. The worst thing to me was that if it took too long, the tandon (water tank that's filled up with water from the well using an electrical water pump) upstairs became empty and there was no more water. No electricity is a bummer, but having no water for a longer period of time is very uncomfortable.
 

dafluff

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I just wonder why the notary would do so and why the notary would not insist on everything going by the rules. I mean, the notary would get in quite a trouble as well if it comes to light that an incorrect amount was declared, wouldn´t he/she?

Did you really just ask why corrupt people do corrupt things in Indonesia? :ROFLMAO:

The notary does it out of habit (ie. everyone does it), and because of course, the local Dispenda is in on it. I have had a Notaris literally tell me that "the Dispenda wants x fee if you want to pay 2N taxes, or 2x fees to pay N taxes"...
 

Helpful Herbert

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Fair point. In some areas, I heard, it is also possible to get water delivered by a water truck which fills up the water tank of the house then. Might also be a solution if drilling leads to financial (or other) problems. But I don´t know the average costs of the water delivery suppliers. And probably also not the most environment friendly solution :p
We used to have one of those companies very close to our house, on the mountain here. There was a pipeline coming from a spring further up, and the water trucks would be constantly filling up with water for apartment blocks in Jakarta.
If I remember correctly, they told me that the apartments would pay 400,000 rp per truckload, but that was a few years ago.
 

HappyMan

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Fair point. In some areas, I heard, it is also possible to get water delivered by a water truck which fills up the water tank of the house then. Might also be a solution if drilling leads to financial (or other) problems. But I don´t know the average costs of the water delivery suppliers. And probably also not the most environment friendly solution :p
I'll just flesh out my experience regarding water supply a bit, since there seems to be a bit of interest in the subject.

My place here is a bit far from town, but we do have PDAM (a water utility). The water is turned on in the evenings around 5 and turned off again in the morning at around 7. There isn't a lot of pressure and you need a pump to get it up to a cistern in the roof. The water is always our for at least a day after the first big rains of a rainy season. Sometimes the water is just out for no known reason, which has lasted as long as 4 days, if I recall correctly. Not having any water in the middle of the dry season was a big problem for my garden.

So, it seemed like a good idea to drill a well, with the water being cheaper in the long term and to having to worry about the utility going out. When I started asking around about how deep to drill, I just asked two local people I know, neither of whom own a well. They both suggested that they know someone who can drill a well, so I talked to the two prospective drillers. Both wanted around 800k per meter (just the hole, no casing) with one of them suggesting that I should drill 2 parallel holes to 30m and the other saying 40m would do it. Turned out neither of them was right.

Wanting to be a bit more through, I googled local-ish well drilling companies and started calling them up. Highest was 1.2 million per meter. Lowest was 900k reduced to 700k after negotiations. A couple of them said I would need 100 meters. Turns out the father-in-law had a well done recently in town (an hour away) and his guys would take a crack at it for 450k per meter. Hired!

They drilled down about 45 meters with lots of stoppage for water loss, this cost them both time and materials. They were frustrated enough by the water loss that they decided to drill down dry in order to enlarge the size of the bore, so they could install the casing to their current depth and stop the water loss.

They got their drill head stuck. After half a day of fighting to try and get it loose, they broke their pipe off in the well, still attached to the drill head. After asking to be paid by the day rather than the meter, they gave up and went home. Now I have a hole with a pipe stick in it and am still using PDAM. If the driller didn't lose money, he came close.

The next week when I went fishing at the local carp pond, everyone seemed to know that the only two productive wells in the area were at least 100m deep and that they had taken ages to drill with larger rigs than the one I had hired... Pak RT in particular, had rather a lot of knowledge regarding the subject. I would have saved a bit of time and definitely money by asking about a bit more before starting.
 

Bad_azz

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I'll just flesh out my experience regarding water supply a bit, since there seems to be a bit of interest in the subject.

My place here is a bit far from town, but we do have PDAM (a water utility). The water is turned on in the evenings around 5 and turned off again in the morning at around 7. There isn't a lot of pressure and you need a pump to get it up to a cistern in the roof. The water is always our for at least a day after the first big rains of a rainy season. Sometimes the water is just out for no known reason, which has lasted as long as 4 days, if I recall correctly. Not having any water in the middle of the dry season was a big problem for my garden.

So, it seemed like a good idea to drill a well, with the water being cheaper in the long term and to having to worry about the utility going out. When I started asking around about how deep to drill, I just asked two local people I know, neither of whom own a well. They both suggested that they know someone who can drill a well, so I talked to the two prospective drillers. Both wanted around 800k per meter (just the hole, no casing) with one of them suggesting that I should drill 2 parallel holes to 30m and the other saying 40m would do it. Turned out neither of them was right.

Wanting to be a bit more through, I googled local-ish well drilling companies and started calling them up. Highest was 1.2 million per meter. Lowest was 900k reduced to 700k after negotiations. A couple of them said I would need 100 meters. Turns out the father-in-law had a well done recently in town (an hour away) and his guys would take a crack at it for 450k per meter. Hired!

They drilled down about 45 meters with lots of stoppage for water loss, this cost them both time and materials. They were frustrated enough by the water loss that they decided to drill down dry in order to enlarge the size of the bore, so they could install the casing to their current depth and stop the water loss.

They got their drill head stuck. After half a day of fighting to try and get it loose, they broke their pipe off in the well, still attached to the drill head. After asking to be paid by the day rather than the meter, they gave up and went home. Now I have a hole with a pipe stick in it and am still using PDAM. If the driller didn't lose money, he came close.

The next week when I went fishing at the local carp pond, everyone seemed to know that the only two productive wells in the area were at least 100m deep and that they had taken ages to drill with larger rigs than the one I had hired... Pak RT in particular, had rather a lot of knowledge regarding the subject. I would have saved a bit of time and definitely money by asking about a bit more before starting.
Yes, water was #1 when we were buying.
My western ideas were along the lines of Location being priority, good views, being away from potential flooding / landslides.
Hubby stepped up & said no, #1 is water & then the rest.
This seemed odd to me but did make very good sense. No point being in a fab location if there is no water. (Yes one can buy in water deliveries- but it is hardly an ecologically friendly or wise way to live)

The place we bought was well known in the village for having a well that hasn't run dry in the living memory of anyone in the village, yet it is only 8-10 metres deep & is mata air ( spring water ). Apparently it is drinkable but I tend to only use it for cooking or boil it well if making drinks.

Even in the height of dry season to date we have always had lots of water with no loss in pressure.
The pumps & pipes are a different matter though hahaha there always seems to be something leaking somewhere which causes the pump to run sporadically which is in turn very annoying.
So yes when buying a house/land, water should be right up at the top of the considerations list.
 
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Balifrog

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Bloody hell, I cant even think about coping with this kind of shit .....

I mean, I don't move to the other end of the world to face water or electricity shortages..... FFS ...

But hey, to each his own.

3 y in Bali, never any water problem, worst elec cut out was a few hours.
In the Missus Java jungle, never a real water problem, and elec cut out same, only a few hours. (When they service the Gen I guess ?)

Any more than that and I move on.....
An old man need his comfort !
 

Bad_azz

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Bloody hell, I cant even think about coping with this kind of shit .....

I mean, I don't move to the other end of the world to face water or electricity shortages..... FFS ...

But hey, to each his own.

3 y in Bali, never any water problem, worst elec cut out was a few hours.
In the Missus Java jungle, never a real water problem, and elec cut out same, only a few hours. (When they service the Gen I guess ?)

Any more than that and I move on.....
An old man need his comfort !
To my knowledge Bali is one of the places that is in (or about to be in ) dire circumstances re water supply.

Bali's Water Crisis
 

Balifrog

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To my knowledge Bali is one of the places that is in (or about to be in ) dire circumstances re water supply.

Bali's Water Crisis

Agreed, the water supply we have is absolutely unsuitable for consumption.

It is salty, clogs showerheads....

Being located about 1000m from the sea, I guess the well of the resort I am staying is not deep enough.

But there are never cut offs, except due to electricity problems (no elec, no pumps..)

Lucky there is a huge storage ...the swimming pool !
 

waarmstrong

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If there is no water access, then finding out about the local drilling situation is exactly the sort of thing you would want to do. Turns out the local well depth here is around 100 meters and I've had several offers to drill for around 800,000 per meter. So, 80 jt for a well... We actually have PDAM, so this is not a pressing matter, but if the land had been purchased with the intention of drilling a cheap well, I would have a problem.
Relying on PDAM is not particularly reassuring in my world. We are in SE Jakarta, an area not "served" by PDAM, but the cut offs, lack of pressure, green and or brown fluid coming through the pipes, high costs and lack of timely repairs are all repeated subjects of conversations around our neighborhood, emanating from friends and relatives who live in PDAM areas. Our well has its own problems, but we can deal with them immediately and at far less cost than Rp. 800,000/M. The well been punched down further during two past dry seasons, but for the past 5 years or so it has not failed.
 
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HappyMan

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Relying on PDAM is not particularly reassuring in my world. We are in SE Jakarta, an area not "served" by PDAM, but the cut offs, lack of pressure, green and or brown fluid coming through the pipes, high costs and lack of timely repairs are all repeated subjects of conversations around our neighborhood, emanating from friends and relatives who live in PDAM areas. Our well has its own problems, but we can deal with them immediately and at far less cost than Rp. 800,000/M. The well been punched down further during two past dry seasons, but for the past 5 years or so it has not failed.
In Jakarta you should be getting around 300,000-400,000/m, I had heard. Drilling in Bandung is also around that price, maybe a bit lower. I don't really know much about it, but it makes sense, what with my being in rocky hills, Bandung being in a basin and Jakarta being god-forsaken.
 

waarmstrong

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Thanks for the update, HappyMan, on the latest drilling costs. It has been so long since we deepened our well, I cannot recall the actual cost, although if it had been unusually expensive, I probably would remember. (My memory takes note of occasions where I think I am being gouged -- an offshoot of being frugal i.e. a cheap bastard.)

Jakarta is a Godly place. Here I am assuming piety levels are measured in decibels levels of Mosque loudspeakers.
 

make_batik_great_again

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A friend of mine was in the process of buying land. Sporadik certificate already existed and the seller started the process of SHM after they agreed on a contract which was drawn up by a notary my friend chose.

But after SHM was issued, the land was bigger than stated in the sporadik certificate. Therefore, also the price for the land is higher now of course since they agreed on a price per square meter. When I heard that story, I wondered if this is common!? Is that because the land gets measured again when applying for SHM and the size of the land in a sporadik certificate is not always that accurate? Or could he have been victim of fraud?

I think BPN is responsible for the measurement of the land. Are they reliable? At least, I never heard that someone measured the land by himself in order to check if BPN did it correctly.
 
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HappyMan

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I can tell you that BTN used to do measurement manually (on a hill in a forest) and now use GPS. I have also heard of variance between old manual measurements and new GPS measurements.
 

[email protected]

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I just completed drilling 43 meters for water which was through a fair bit of rock. The cost was 13 Juta and they were on site for 4-5 days. They also fully installed the pump and came back after a few days to make sure the water was still clear. Excellent service!

The price included 2 holes if needed but they were lucky the first time.

We are located in North Minahasa (Manado).
 

make_batik_great_again

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I can tell you that BTN used to do measurement manually (on a hill in a forest) and now use GPS. I have also heard of variance between old manual measurements and new GPS measurements.

Thank you for the feedback. That might explain it then.

My friend is thinking about how to deal with this situation now and I am not quite sure what to recommend him because I have no experience in buying land in Indonesia myself - only that information from reading in this forum.

Since, on the SHM, the land is bigger than expected (bigger than on the sporadik certificate) now, he probably has to pay a higher price. Of course, he did not calculate with these extra costs. He is a bit worried now that later there might come up other additional price components or costs that he did not expect before. He is aware of the notary costs and taxes, of course.

But is there something else he should consider? After the SHM is issued, I assume the land cannot get bigger another time ( :p ) since the SHM should contain the official land size, I guess. So, the price of the land as well as the taxes and notary costs should be clear then. If he would not build something on the land in the near future, could there come up any other costs for him nevertheless? For example, if someone (mayor or neighbors or so) decides to build or refurbish a street that also passes his land, could he get forced to participate in the costs? Or if the neighborhood gets connected to the electricity supply system, would he has to participate in the costs (even if he does not live there (yet) and considers the land purchase only as an investment?)
 
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waarmstrong

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Street, drainage, utility, and other improvements of the neighborhood commons, I generally view as a good things. If your friend does not wish to be a participant in the community he is buying into and contribute to improvements that serve all the property owners, himself included, he should really think twice about the purchase. I certainly would not want him as a neighbor.
 

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