I finally got KITAP - yaayy

[Anglian]

Our KK came with me on as a bachelor, my wife took it back to get it changed, the new one came back, guess what I'm still a bachelor,

 

[Daniel50]

If Bali is so impossible to get a KTP how can any Retirement Kitap holder even comply with Indonesia's national law that everyone needs a KTP.
I was told by my sponsoring agent that it was not necessary to have a KTP but many others say it is necessary...what can a poor fool do?

http://dispendukcapil.surabaya.go.id/layanan-kependudukan/514-info-document-wajib-oa

This link is for foreigners needing Civil Registry/Catapan Sipil. You can print this and show your wife and/or agent.

Someone has to go to Civil Registry, where you live to apply. You need to apply for Family Card and KTP-OA

 

[Daniel50]

Apparently this still says you need a Family Card i.e. a head of a family whose address would be used for applicant' residence. If your property is in a relatives name then they could provide the Sponsor Letter. Yet you are here on a Retirement Visa. It seems confusing but could work.

 

[jstar]

I was told by my sponsoring agent that it was not necessary to have a KTP but many others say it is necessary...what can a poor fool do?

Well, if someone says that YOU with your KITAP don't need a KTP, just refer to this law (translation):

KTP Orang Asing - UU no 6/2006 Civil Adminstration

Article 21
1. Foreigners who convert ITAS to ITAP are required to report to the implementing agency (in this case Catatan Sipil) within 14 days of the issuing of ITAP.
2. Based on the report in 1., the implementing agency will register and issue KK and KTP.

Article 89
2. Administrative sanction for failing the above is at maximum Rp 2.000.000,-




And on the electronic version, see article 63 the first paragraph.

 

[jstar]

With a KITAS the KK (family card) was not relevant. With a KITAP you will get your own KK. (Yes I know, many get on their spouse's KK now.)

 

[Davita]

I'm looking at the SKPPT my wife and I both received after we were interviewed by our Kelian of local Banjar (walking distance from our villa) when we first moved to Bali in 2014. We had a friendly chat, contributed a sum of money and we were processed. We received the SKPPT some time later signed/stamped by the Kelian/Dinas of Banjar and Kades/Lurah of Kerobokan and I note our Nama/Alamat Penanggungiawab is someone in Mengwi, Badung. Since then our maid has annually extended and made further contributions and she returns saying everything is OK. I don't think we formally advised of changing from Kitas to Kitap.
There is no NIK on that SKPPT document.
I also keep the SKLD (expired) we were issued in Jakarta when living there on Sosbud but it doesn't have any NIK.
Other than the small Kitap card we have no other documents.

My Dutch brother-in-law in Jakarta has a KTP-OA as he is married to my wife's sister, who is still WNI, but who lived/worked in Holland for many years.

I haven't met anyone on a Retirement Kitap who does have a KTP-OA and I'd be interested if any members could respond to that issue.

To me it seems Law is one thing and Practice is another. They create a Law then make it impossible to comply. My agent warned me to not interfere and refer all immigration issues to him...I think that's why I pay him big bucks.

 

[klaatu]

My first sktt from banyuwangi didn't put a NIK number on it,but that's typical for a small time corrupt office,who charged me 300,000 but Denpasar did and it was free,even no fine for being 10 months late on application

 

[jstar]

.
Yes, not providing that info is incompetence or blackmail.

If not on the SKTT(S), normally the NIK should be on the second line of the SKSKPS. Look for a form you might have gotten with the red letterhead.

This is the form. Unreadable, sorry

 

[klaatu]

.
Yes, that is incompetence or blackmail. Normally the NIK should be on the second line of the SKTT.

Lack of adult supervision

 

[klaatu]

I will say this,Denpasar kantor dinas and pendudukan/ catatan sipil is the most profesional place i have been in,easy to just go there and enquire about application,they dont muck around

 

[Daniel50]

I haven't met anyone on a Retirement Kitap who does have a KTP-OA and I'd be interested if any members could respond to that issue.

To me it seems Law is one thing and Practice is another. They create a Law then make it impossible to comply. My agent warned me to not interfere and refer all immigration issues to him...I think that's why I pay him big bucks.

I think talking to someone on a Retirement KITAP who has one is a good idea. You haven't met anyone yet, who has one. I wonder if this is anything like their world tax system "on the books" but not on retirees and a multitude of others. I just tried to come up with a quick answer and was not very helpful. I wish I could be of some help but I can not.

 

[fastpitch17]

My agent warned me to not interfere and refer all immigration issues to him...I think that's why I pay him big bucks.

The KTP-OA is not an Immigration issue so perhaps your agent who get's the big bucks isn't current on the things he should be. If you interfere, you may find that out.

 

[jstar]

Yeah, I remember the same BS at time (>6 years ago) with the SKTT for KITAS holders. Agents had no idea, even the CatSip and Lurah were not aware of anything. (Huh? Foreigners reporting?) Everybody thought a STM and SKLD from the police were all you needed besides the Imigrasi stuff.

 

[klaatu]

Yeah, I remember the same BS at time (>6 years ago) with the SKTT for KITAS holders. Agents had no idea, even the CatSip and Lurah were not aware of anything. (Huh? Foreigners reporting?) Everybody thought a STM and SKLD from the police were all you needed besides the Imigrasi stuff.

No one knows till you go to extend kitas,maybe you need ktp_oa to extend kitap..trouble is if you use an agent anything goes,they just slip a handfull of cash to imigrasi and i doubt half of the required paperwork is submitted..all comes unstuck when you decide to do it yourself next time without agents incompetence..no such luck on retirement itas/itap to save a dollar

 

[Daniel50]

Thanks Jstar but, as a retiree Kitap holder, I don't have a National ID Number nor a Family Card.
Clearly a spousal Kitap holder use their WNI spouse/family for sponsorship and can DIY but, by law, a retirement Kitap holder cannot.

Davita any regrets that your wife gave up her citizenship to become Canadian? I imagine there are some costs eg. Retirement Visa, property ownership but overall would it have been worthwhile to keep Indonesian citizenship?

 

[Davita]

Davita any regrets that your wife gave up her citizenship to become Canadian? I imagine there are some costs eg. Retirement Visa, property ownership but overall would it have been worthwhile to keep Indonesian citizenship?

Except for your mentioned visa and property ownership, and we don't have a pre-nup anyway, we haven't found that being Indonesian has much advantage. She would have liked to work as she has a skill much desired in Bali (Aesthetician) but I reckon that would interfere with her daily gym routine and 'doing lunch' with her gal-pals.
She became quite an activist in Jakarta political circles and I kept telling her to 'calm down and keep a low profile' as she's a foreigner....and, before she was age qualified for her own Retirement Kitas/P, as her sponsor, I'd need to have her deported.

We could not have done the travelling we have if she only had an Indonesian passport and certainly could not have lived in Scottsdale, AZ...which we did for 8 years. Travel was the primary concern for us in retirement.
Indonesia was not the same place 27 years ago when we both left Hong Kong and immigrated to Canada...it never crossed our minds that we would return for anything but a visit...let alone make it our primary residence.

In your case I'd suggest, if your wife wishes to have Canadian citizenship, she gets a new RI passport before converting...and don't say anything to the Indonesian Embassy/Consul. Canada doesn't care if you have two passports and they don't report to any other country...they just take away the PR (in our case Landed Immigrant) card. If she needs a renewal RI passport do it when in Jakarta and not in an Embassy. She will have to lie on the application....but she'd be one of many on that score.

 

[Daniel50]

Except for your mentioned visa and property ownership, and we don't have a pre-nup anyway, we haven't found that being Indonesian has much advantage. She would have liked to work as she has a skill much desired in Bali (Aesthetician) but I reckon that would interfere with her daily gym routine and 'doing lunch' with her gal-pals.
She became quite an activist in Jakarta political circles and I kept telling her to 'calm down and keep a low profile' as she's a foreigner....and, before she was age qualified for her own Retirement Kitas/P, as her sponsor, I'd need to have her deported.

We could not have done the travelling we have if she only had an Indonesian passport and certainly could not have lived in Scottsdale, AZ...which we did for 8 years. Travel was the primary concern for us in retirement.
Indonesia was not the same place 27 years ago when we both left Hong Kong and immigrated to Canada...it never crossed our minds that we would return for anything but a visit...let alone make it our primary residence.

In your case I'd suggest, if your wife wishes to have Canadian citizenship, she gets a new RI passport before converting...and don't say anything to the Indonesian Embassy/Consul. Canada doesn't care if you have two passports and they don't report to any other country...they just take away the PR (in our case Landed Immigrant) card. If she needs a renewal RI passport do it when in Jakarta and not in an Embassy. She will have to lie on the application....but she'd be one of many on that score.

Okay thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Daniel50]

In your case I'd suggest, if your wife wishes to have Canadian citizenship, she gets a new RI passport before converting...and don't say anything to the Indonesian Embassy/Consul. Canada doesn't care if you have two passports and they don't report to any other country...they just take away the PR (in our case Landed Immigrant) card. If she needs a renewal RI passport do it when in Jakarta and not in an Embassy. She will have to lie on the application....but she'd be one of many on that score.

I don't even know why you would have to apply for an Indonesian Passport if you have a foreign passport. You don't need a passport to maintain citizenship. I guess if a person has never written or informed them they have no way of knowing. If you are living in Indonesia again you can always apply for a passport, unless I am missing some things (it has been known to happen). You can't use your Indonesian passport to fly back to Canada as you need to present a PR card which you don't have.

She may decide to keep her Indonesian citizenship and even if not there is not much she loses. She can always live here just not own property, in her name.

 

[Davita]

1. I don't even know why you would have to apply for an Indonesian Passport if you have a foreign passport. You don't need a passport to maintain citizenship. I guess if a person has never written or informed them they have no way of knowing. If you are living in Indonesia again you can always apply for a passport, unless I am missing some things (it has been known to happen).2. You can't use your Indonesian passport to fly back to Canada as you need to present a PR card which you don't have.

1. That's correct... but, on return, if you wish to apply for a new passport you need to present the old one...it makes it so much easier if the old one was current and was last stamped with a date of arrival back in RI. If the last stamp in an 'out of date' passport was leaving RI questions may be asked..."where have you been living."
It's also wise to keep the KTP and KK current.
Any countries passport is usually accepted to verify citizenship ID....otherwise, a search for some other document is troublesome. I'm just saying if everything looks normal it avoids conflict. I'm aware it isn't legal but I know many who maintain RI citizenship when visiting RI and otherwise travel on their other passport.
The immigration computer is far more sophisticated now so maybe maintaining dual-citizenship isn't as easy as in the past. It's about time they offered dual to the RI citizen diaspora....they keep talking but never doing.

Btw...They managed to find the newly appointed 'Minister of Energy' was a USA citizen....clearly he didn't listen to my advice...

2. Also correct and why you cannot apply for an RI passport in Vancouver RI Consulate as they want to see that PR card. We know that from experience....big mistake.

 

[Daniel50]

1. That's correct... but, on return, if you wish to apply for a new passport you need to present the old one...it makes it so much easier if the old one was current and was last stamped with a date of arrival back in RI. If the last stamp in an 'out of date' passport was leaving RI questions may be asked..."where have you been living."
It's also wise to keep the KTP and KK current.

There must be people who apply for a passport and no longer have the prior one after say 10 years.

I suppose the easiest way is to go according to the law. Canada doesn't care but Indonesia does. If a person chooses not to notify them then I guess you can cross the what should I do bridge if the decision to permanently return arises.