Human Rights and Campus Rules

[mauricio]

Perhaps you could explain how this is going to be a problem for you.
Thanks in advance.

Not exactly my problem but problem for Indonesia and the future of the country as it is a sign of growing religiosity (please see post #34).

 

[IndoTom]

30 years ago, I cannot imagine Indonesia could become an Islamic Republic someday. It seemed impossible, so I decided to invest here. Some expats even married locals and have children here. But now, it is NOT impossible anymore as you can see the growing religiosity amongst the population. I did not come here to invest, retire and live under sharia laws. Non-Muslim expats married to Indonesians also do not want their children and grandchildren to live in a theocratic Indonesia. So we care about Indonesia like an Indonesian cared about his country. The only way to preserve secularism and pluralism in this country is to stop the growing religiosity and the Arab influence. Even Prabowo mentioned about the book which predicted the demise of Indonesia by 2030 https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/st...ly-sci-fi-techno-thriller-called-ghost-fleet/

Did you complain about the Hindu Nyepi Day of silence on March 16th that practically shuts down Bali one day every year? Read about Nyepi LINK HERE. Or do you just complain about Muslim practices? Sorry you moved to a Muslim country, but didn't you know this in advance. Have the evil Muslims cut off your hand yet?

So what secularist country would you want to move to where religion is not in the public space? The USA perhaps, where there are national Christian and Pegan holidays every year. Singapore, oh yes the business city state. They must be secular without any weird religious things that will be seen in public. Why isn't there a floor number 4 in the elevator there? Oh that's because in Chinese culture, the number 4 means death. Is culture and religion similar? Dam oppressive culture. How could I live without the number four?

Just to set the stage for bigger things, a large number of Indonesian Muslims practice their culture, not their religion. What is the difference you might ask? Religion is typically based on a set of non-changable rules that are somewhat "written in stone". A religion that changes it's own fundimental rules is an oxymoron. Where culture is a way of doing things not based on anything but historical practices which can change. The "dangdut" music and sexy dancers in Muslim villages during a wedding is an example of culture trumping religion. Those things are the reverse of Islamic teachings but they do it anyway.

What I think you are complaining about is a move away from culture to religion. I'm not saying it's actually happening though. Perhaps it's just your perception. Jokowi is a perfect example of a "Muslim" that doesn't follow his religion, yet the Muslim majority voted him in as President. Go figure!

 

[Fred]

Not exactly my problem but problem for Indonesia and the future of the country as it is a sign of growing religiosity (please see post #34).

Yes, religion is such a mess because of all these rules, praying and being nice to people.
Religious extremists such as ultra right Christians in the US, extremist Jews in Israel, extremist Buddhists in Burma, and not forgetting the Muslim terrorists we have seen here, share one thing - none of the silly bastards follow their religion properly.
Religion isn't the issue, it's corruption of religion for whatever reason the nutters decide is correct.

As for your favourite target, Muslims, the issue of extremism was pretty much a nothing thing, ignored and rejected by all but a few until The Russians invaded Afghanistan and the US counted by arming resistance groups. These brave freedom fighter were immediately named 'terrorists' as soon as the US invaded because a bunch of Saudis attacked America on 9/11.

Whilst I would never argue the Saudis attacking civilians was justified in any way, I do understand their reasons for attacking, that being US support for Israel. You can confirm that be looking at terrorist attacks in the US, none committed by Muslim groups until the States started support for Israel. Before the US supported Israel, all terrorist attacks were either domestic right/left wing idiots or people from countries the US had attacked in one way or another, not forgetting the Jewish defence league's many actions (Oh, they have been forgotten - Wonder why that is)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Defining terrorism is also bent. Attacking civilians, as the US did with CIA bomber aircraft in Indonesia, is always a crime, but attacking an invading army is war, exactly as the French resistance were terrorists in the eyes of the Nazis in WWII France. The upshot is, attacking invading forces is commonly defined as terrorism, but only be the invading forces.
Much as I think ISIS are a set of sweaty twats without a clue (and in it for the oil money anyway), their attacks on US troops are not terrorist attacks. Saying that, that bunch of extremist idiots are a great bonus for the world, but only as fertiliser when they die.

I've already given a passing mention to the US CIA mass terrorist murders in Indonesia, perhaps posters would enjoy a full list of known US terrorist attacks around the globe. Ner, that wasn't Muslims so you won't give a shit.

Here's the big thing, I've been looking at how the extremists work, especially their propaganda, and that very much focuses on people aiming comments at Islam.
In other words, the haters here and elsewhere are feeding the extremist elements with propaganda, thus helping their twisted cause.

That, in my honest opinion, means those who spread hate are a bunch of bloody idiots.

 

[mauricio]

@IndoTom , @Fred
Thank you for your comments. Maybe I lived here too long and felt like an Indonesian already. That is why I am so concerned with the growing religiosity. Moderates are not doing enough, and I see fundamentalists increasing their numbers every year. If this continues, it will be goodbye to secularism and pluralism. By then, too late to hate the fundamentalist.

 

[Fred]

@IndoTom , @Fred
Thank you for your comments. Maybe I lived here too long and felt like an Indonesian already. That is why I am so concerned with the growing religiosity. Moderates are not doing enough, and I see fundamentalists increasing their numbers every year. If this continues, it will be goodbye to secularism and pluralism. By then, too late to hate the fundamentalist.

Moderates are moderate by nature, thus don't tend to show up much.
The extremists are using a very well set up propaganda machine to push their point.
Odd as it seems, the extremists' greatest friends are people who rant on pathetically about how Islam is terrible.
Yep, right wing pathetic morons are helping the Islamic extremists get what they want.
What a set of thick twats.

 

[IndoTom]

@IndoTom , @Fred
Thank you for your comments. Maybe I lived here too long and felt like an Indonesian already. That is why I am so concerned with the growing religiosity. Moderates are not doing enough, and I see fundamentalists increasing their numbers every year. If this continues, it will be goodbye to secularism and pluralism. By then, too late to hate the fundamentalist.

You are probably too close to the issue to see it without bias. Myopic vision. I was like that also when living in Indonesia. I had a friend who worked in several Muslim majority countries making a decent living but always complained about them. Islam this, Muslim that, all the while going out on the weekend and partying and drinking in the place they proclaimed to be so restricted. But when it came to the Muslim minority in their home country back in the UK, oh how they would say things like go home if you don’t like here and you can’t wear your hijab here, it’s not Saudi! Such double standards.

Westerners really misuse the term fundamentalist. In my definition, a fundamentalist is someone that follows their belief “by the book”. How much respect do you have for a non fundamentalist follower of a religion. Meaning someone who either doesn’t follow their stated religion properly or perhaps innovates and just makes things up to satisfy themselves?

 

[Fred]

To be fair and reasonable..

There is a growing extremist movement in Indonesia, mostly claiming (stupidly) Jokowi is a commie and the government/police are anti Islam.
These people are intent on supporting a given political party so one has to wonder what those politicians have to promise in return for support.
One suspects some politicians might be bent bastards, but that's only a guess, not fact.

 

[atlantis]

Not bad, but does Canada have any female national heroes or have they ever had a female president?

Read about Nellie Mc Clung and the Persons Case (it's about women being recognized as "persons" and therefore being eligible to Senate and other political functions). Great woman of her time and a national hero.

Also, Canada's real de facto leader is a Prime Minister rather than a President like in France for example where the President is head of the executive. I think that Mrs Kim Campbell has held the function in the 90's, albeit for a short period. For the rest, I think they were all male but I am ready to stand corrected by any Canadian with a better understanding of the politics there.
When it comes to the Head of State in Canada, I think you also know her, at least by name. Another woman: She is Queen Elizabeth II.

 

[Davita]

Read about Nellie Mc Clung and the Persons Case (it's about women being recognized as "persons" and therefore being eligible to Senate and other political functions). Great woman of her time and a national hero.

Also, Canada's real de facto leader is a Prime Minister rather than a President like in France for example where the President is head of the executive. I think that Mrs Kim Campbell has held the function in the 90's, albeit for a short period. For the rest, I think they were all male but I am ready to stand corrected by any Canadian with a better understanding of the politics there.
When it comes to the Head of State in Canada, I think you also know her, at least by name. Another woman: She is Queen Elizabeth II.

Atlantis has it right and Kim Campbell was Prime Minister for a few short months.... but it should be remembered that countries that use the Westminster model of Government do not vote for a Prime Minister. The General Election votes for a political party and the one with the majority forms a government and its leader becomes Prime Minister.
In Campbell's case the previous PM Mulroney (Conservative) retired while in office, so the party voted for a new leader and Kim won... so automatically assumed Prime Minister. The statutory General Election happened a few months later, and the Conservatives lost, so Jean Chretien (Liberal leader) became PM. Kim Campbell even lost her seat so she was no longer an MP.
Queen Elizabeth is represented by a Governor General and there have been three previous female Governors General in Canada (see post # 22). The current GG (also a woman) is Julie Payette who was appointed last October.

 

[Fred]

Didn't Pakistan have a lady in the top job?

Sexism is a global issue, not just local to one country, religious, or social group, and it's ingrained in many men's thoughts.
"I'd like to shag that", being a common sentence heard in many a British pub, and I suspect all over the world.

The sentence assumes women are objects, sex objects at that, and that isn't going to change any time soon. Let's be honest, guys, how many times have you seen a really nice arse and thought naughty, sexually explicit thoughts without so much as a passing interest in the lady's personality, achievements, or anything else past shagging her?

Or am I abnormal? (rhetorical question)

The big question is, do many/most girls like it that way?
Plenty post sexy pictures on the net, so at least some do.

 

[Fred]

One last note that is commonly forgotten, cultural norms and opinions are often ignored by people who are so entrenched in their own opinions, they ignore what the people they're 'saving from oppression' actually want.

 

[Davita]

Didn't Pakistan have a lady in the top job?

Sexism is a global issue, not just local to one country, religious, or social group, and it's ingrained in many men's thoughts.
"I'd like to shag that", being a common sentence heard in many a British pub, and I suspect all over the world.

The sentence assumes women are objects, sex objects at that, and that isn't going to change any time soon. Let's be honest, guys, how many times have you seen a really nice arse and thought naughty, sexually explicit thoughts without so much as a passing interest in the lady's personality, achievements, or anything else past shagging her?

Or am I abnormal? (rhetorical question)

The big question is, do many/most girls like it that way?
Plenty post sexy pictures on the net, so at least some do.

Brave man Fred...the last time I posted a picture of a sexy lady turning an aircraft prop to start the engine, so was doing something useful and not just posing, the Mods and the ladies on the forum became hysterically outraged and descended on me like I was some pornographer or misogynist.

 

[Minuteman]

Brave man Fred...the last time I posted a picture of a sexy lady turning an aircraft prop to start the engine, so was doing something useful and not just posing, the Mods and the ladies on the forum became hysterically outraged and descended on me like I was some pornographer or misogynist.

Yeah...let's see if Fred gets by with this.

 

[atlantis]

Didn't Pakistan have a lady in the top job?

Benazir Bhutto was indeed the first woman to head a democratic predominantly Muslim country and we should praise Pakistan for it. However, what is equally important to note to explain her election is that she was the daughter of Zulfikar Ali Bhuto, a much loved former Prime Minister of Pakistan (himself being son of a former Prime Minister) and founder of the predominant political party, who was ousted and executed by the military forces of General Zia (you would love the whole story as there are rumors that the evil CIA may have had an hand in the coup).

In this regard, her election should be regarded as similar to the one of Megawati Soekarnoputri, who, if she wasn't the daughter of Sukarno, would be a nobody on the political world. The difference perhaps being that Bhutto was a very skilled and smart political animal.

 

[atlantis]

Brave man Fred...the last time I posted a picture of a sexy lady turning an aircraft prop to start the engine, so was doing something useful and not just posing, the Mods and the ladies on the forum became hysterically outraged and descended on me like I was some pornographer or misogynist.

Yeah...let's see if Fred gets by with this.

What is it about? For some reason, pics don't upload on my computer. Should there is anything you wish to report, please do so by using the relevant button (look at the bottom of the post).

 

[Davita]

No need for any reporting.
I'm delighted to read Fred's post # 50 and see the picture...as I enjoy looking at pretty Asian ladies.....

 

[Fred]

No need for any reporting.
I'm delighted to read Fred's post # 50 and see the picture...as I enjoy looking at pretty Asian ladies.....

So did I, and posted it.
Whilst not porn, the question is one about how many ladies enjoy male attention that's based solely on sexual attraction, even encouraging it,
The political picture we're fed is all about women being against such things, but a large number of women post very sexy, semi porn pictures of themselves for random men to look at.
I went for a picture that suggested extremely sexy but avoided posting the many selfies showing a woman clearly making sure men knew she's game for bending over a washing machine on fast spin.

 

[Fred]

...as I enjoy looking at pretty Asian ladies.....

What was that in post #52?

Brave man Fred...the last time I posted a picture of a sexy lady turning an aircraft prop to start the engine, so was doing something useful and not just posing, the Mods and the ladies on the forum became hysterically outraged and descended on me like I was some pornographer or misogynist.

No idea where they got those accusations from

As for attacking me for such things, bit pointless because I am, I freely admit it, and don't care if attacked for being human.

 

[Fred]

I suppose we have to explore what women's rights really are, and if the majority of women actually want the rights they're told they need.

I knew a woman who owned a dress shop, often commenting how much I'd like to shag a customer trying on a nice dress. I was, as you'd expect from an English gentleman, very subtle, not actually getting a hard on and asking them if they fancied a sausage sandwich, but they were well aware what I actually meant.
Strange as it might seem to feminists, the women always smiled at the notion they were sexy and men wanted them.
Same goes here - Just last week I told a local school principal she was sexy and I fancied a fun time with her, and she loved the attention, refusing only because she said her husband would go ape if he found out.
That the posh birds sorted, the biker chicks needed no subtle hints, just wanting to know the guys fancied a few minutes in the car park getting sweaty with them.
Odd, not a one moaned on about being a sex object, sticking to just moaning with pleasure.
We need the forum ladies to comment honestly.
Girls, do you enjoy it when a man feels randy and wants a fun fuzzy session when he sees you, or do you get all angry and tell him women aren't just for sex?
Honestly, which one?

 

[Minuteman]

What is it about? For some reason, pics don't upload on my computer. Should there is anything you wish to report, please do so by using the relevant button (look at the bottom of the post).

Atlantis, no worries. A nice pic of a pretty lady. No complaints from here at all!!