how to support a family with some peace of mind?

[abel majeed]

The time i set is up to actually try to plan the move to indonesia with my children from my ex and my indonesian wife currently with me in north africa and my 2 children from her.

Honestly i am developing sm worries. Even tho am an experienced person who overcome s wide range of challenges in life but i hv a hard time imagining my self doing well if evrtything i will do will hv to go thru my wife. Any small business any property any this any that she has to be involved men not knowing the languge etc. Am used tobe in control (not a complete control freek but i always need least distraction to do my job as head of family and will not do unjustice to anyone.) . I have saved over the years about 50k to 60k dollars that i intend to take to indo with me 10k will be gone for plane tickets. If i use the rest to set up a small bisiness and home farm and and possibly hv small house in a village area if just about evetything will involve my wife and may need to be in her name what happens in the unprobable but never impossible scenario of marital problem? Altho not expecting such case but what if she decides to put pressures on me that am not used to. She never did before but i never lived with her in her country. That situation was never put to test.. what if i resist that and she decides or be pressured by others to throw me under the bus. Its easy in theory and practice.i will be completly screwed bz we will all be under her sponsership and if something happen i wd loose all my funds which are not a lot to beguin with and i will be thrown out with my other children add to that i may not be with my children from her...these thoughts are hard to bear...should i hv an honest conversation with her about my fears ..how could that be logical to talk to her if the fears relate to her directly? What if she gives me sm comfort just
enough to move there..bz she will be motivated to live in her country. It is a nice country after all by the way and thats why i hv desires to move there, i will probably end up doing it. But i admit i feel un easy about it and think this feeling will intensify as time gets closer. Any thoughts on game plans and strategies on how to survive from the ppl of this wonderful forum?

 

[jstar]

I guess plans changed somewhat (e.g. with the ex)?

The title does your question not really justice; financially it should be fine if you can start a blooming business. I don't see how you would want to spend $10K on one-way tickets for 6 people (of which one baby) btw.

Nobody knows your wife but you, so it's difficult to answer how things will evolve. And whether she's open to listen to your confessions and have those honest heart-to-heart discussions. (In certain cultures that could be an issue.) But in a solid relationship and with having children together, I don't see why anyone would want to plan to kick the partner out the moment they would move to her home country.

What I do see happening, is -if you live close to them- a pull from her family on her. So get involved with them and make sure you don't put yourself at the sideline.

 

[jukung11]

I am not used to reading text speak. Also, many forum members are not native English speakers. Writing words more completely instead of shorthand and complete sentences would be easier for many people to understand.

Assets lost to an Indonesian spouse in a divorce is a consistent complaint in the expat community. The majority of the time it is from a foreigner falling for an Indonesian looking to take advantage of the foreigner's wealth or from the foreigner taking additional lovers and the Indonesian spouse getting a divorce. Any assets you put in your spouse's name will be that of your spouse.

I assume you have a prenuptial agreement if you plan on putting property and business assets in your spouse's name. It appears that you already treat your assets as separate. It is completely reasonable because you will have two additional children to provide for if this marriage fails.

I can make a few counter arguments to assuage some of your fears.

First, you have two children with and I assume a few years of marriage to this woman. You should be able to see some of the personality and if she is more concerned with your wealth. Even so...

Second, you will be a primary provider for the family. Even if she was concerned about the wealth, she would be hurting her ability to provide for the children you share.

Third, divorce carries a lot of shame in Indonesia for women. The society usually puts the blame on them. They are known as "janda" or widows. There is a whole slew of negative cultural stereotypes about divorced women in Indonesia.

For visa fears, if you are educated and experienced, you can try to get legal sponsored employment for foreigners. For the two children you share with your wife, you can register them as dual citizens, entitling them for permanent residence in Indonesia.

For property, the Indonesian market may be different than what you are used to. Indonesia has had many periods of hyperinflation, and still has regular inflation. People like to store wealth in tangible assets. Property is a simple and easily understood form of investment. There are very little property taxes. There is usually no motivation to sell land at a loss. If you are a good negotiator, you will probably be able to rent cheaper than you can buy. I have done discounted cash flow methods for real estate investments in Indonesia and a lot of the property market doesn't make financial sense. I would recommend renting in Indonesia until you get to know the local market. You can browse your region on https://www.olx.co.id/ to see rentals (properti disewakan). It will be a good exercise for you to start familiarizing yourself with the language.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Yes, often the gross rental income on a property is less than 2% of its market value.

In terms of the discussion above, I believe the signature of the husband is also required to sell an asset, even if there is a prenup. The notary would ask for that. It would be hard for the wife to sell a house if her husband disagrees, unless through some informal way like ajb.

 

[jstar]

No, the wife is the owner and a signature from the husband is not necessary in case there's a prenup. Same at purchase of course, I never ever had to sign.

 

[cestpasmyjob]

Life is always a risk.

 

[Dominique]

Things also depend on which region your wife is originated. In West Sumatra for instance this is Minangkabau (matrilineal) and no matter what your marital contract says at your point of origin, here whatever you build, finance or produce is hers entirely. So the type of concern you are having is not ridiculous at all, and worth a serious thought before going ahead. There are still many regions in Indonesia with a clanic organisation of the society, in particular in the countryside as you seem to be considering. From a foreign country you can easily joke about it, but in situ the pressure can be really hard. It's enough to have one gridy person in the clan with a position of influence to ruin the whole experience.
Besides, if it is easy to mingle in cities like Jakarta or Jogja, finding your way as a foreigner in the countryside is quite a challenge !
You also need to consider the education of your children. International schools are in big cities only. In the countryside you are left with the local schools plus eventually a remote educational system, meaning that you also need a sound internet connection.
I can only encourage you to explore in details the cultural particulars of the region you are considering to move to, and in your place I would like to have a plan B just in case something would go wrong with time.

 

[jstar]

^ I don't think anybody ridiculized the OP above. And whether the spouse belongs to a 3% minority in this country is not really relevant, since a property would be hers anyway.

You can worry and think and overthink and contemplate and research and query and reflect and deliberate and sweat over whatever, but on a certain moment you need to take the step. So many things can go wrong, but it can also work out fine. That's life.

 

[Dominique]

^ I don't think anybody ridiculized the OP above. And whether the spouse belongs to a 3% minority in this country is not really relevant, since a property would be hers anyway.

You can worry and think and overthink and contemplate and research and query and reflect and deliberate and sweat over whatever, but on a certain moment you need to take the step. So many things can go wrong, but it can also work out fine. That's life.

Sure Jstar
It was more a personal thinking that one should not necessarily feel guilty or ridiculous for having such questionings, I was not suggesting anyone thought it was ridiculous. I think we are here to share our various experiences, they can be relevant or anecdotic... As it happens I live in the countryside and in a very traditional society, yet in a secluded environment. Honestly I don't think I could share a village life here on the long term, even if I pay immense respect to way people live here.

 

[jstar]

I know what you mean and i would also have major problems adjusting to the life in certain areas of Indonesia.

The advantage the OP has over many of us, culturally speaking, is that he comes from a northern African country. So that would mean Tunisia, Morocco, or the likes. Now those countries are in many aspects rather similar to developing countries with Muslim majorities in Asia.

 

[abel majeed]

Write your reply... I hv to thank the ppl running this forum and its active members such as those who replied to my OP and to other posts. It amazes me how you guys help others who you dont even now. I personally need to be more like that.

as for my possible move to indonesia if it does happen it will not be as good as it can be bz of the severity in my case of the risks i mentioned in my OP.

I know the laws they hv are there for reasons whatever they are and us as foreign spouses of their citizens can only either accept and comply or leave their country alone.

Unfortunitly in my case these children who are basically indonesians will either way pay a price:

I will either:

1. Refrain from moving there: Which will deprive kids from seeing living and enjoying their country that they hv automatic rights to be part of

2. I move there and will have to hold back some if not most of my funds for the worst case scenario and provide to them later when they grow. Which means i will dedicate a smaller amount of money to work with which means they will hv a lower quality of life than othetwise possible but at least they will hv both parents around til they are grown. Thid will reduce/eliminate the funds/property etc to become a reason for conflicts. And this will not be known by others and will just be that way. This means as an example will hv to rent (i was happy to hear from sm of u that it make sense anyway to rent esp perhaps if i wont be in big cities) and basically will just hv the basics and hv a small business that doesnt require big investment and we will hv to keep it simple and tight which by the way how we live now and is not a bad thing to live with contentment. but i was hoping to move on to another phase where we can enjoy having a slightly higher more comfortable life like good house a car an -all in- small business etc.but At the end of the day we could just live like average indoesians and maybe the power above wants it to be that way. By the way we all can live in village or small town bz we tried country life b4 sucessfully. Also am not worried about kids education bz they are home schooled.

3. I am hoping for a third possibility which is to do independently sm business online like trading stocks or other things even if its as a family but thru my personal accounts i dunno or a passive partnership with sm1 outside indonesia to help out a little, and that may not be easy to set up bz it has its own risks and may or may not be possible but that safeguards the family from money/greed/temptations/pressures related to money and goodies which u all know this risk to a degree or another is real no matter how nice a person is. Small amount of pressures long term on a not so strong or emotional human being could give way to a wrong choice. There are so many ppl surrounding us who intentionally or sometimes unintrntionally push us to do things so bad a lot time it happens to the weaker side in the family but the whole family ay the price.
money/materials are tools/means to help us raise good kids tobe good citizens of the world, if money turns soley into a goal . Its turns into a destructive force thru the weakest link..

Thx all to yr replies. I know there is no magic answer/solutiin but If hv other thoughts reply

 

[colroe]

You are wise to have doubts. My immediate thought is to stay where you are, and your wife and kids adapt to the certainty of a stable environment. If you do move, and your concerns arise, you will have created a monster from which there will be little escape. Whatever choice you make I wish you the best.

 

[harryopal1]

If you have a reliable banking system where you are presently living then you might avoid impressions of wealth by just transferring monthly funds to a local bank here after you get started.

 

[cestpasmyjob]

Also am not worried about kids education bz they are home schooled.

Home schooling is legal in Indonesia - but note that they then won't have a high school diploma, which is needed to get into college/ work overseas. Their life options will be very limited.

 

[serious_fun]

Home schooling is legal in Indonesia - but note that they then won't have a high school diploma, which is needed to get into college/ work overseas. Their life options will be very limited.

A polite correction: the children can sit the exam for the IGCSE, no coursework requirement:

International General Certificate of Secondary Education - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jstar]

These IGCSE exams look a bit like a mock to me (he makes an 'interesting' mistake as well):




Perhaps since it's considered to be as of year 10? (16 year old.) In many countries 12 years education is the minimum to start at a university and then the level is obviously much higher.

That's also my fundamental problem with homeschooling; unless the parent was a professional teacher, it will never get to the required level on maths (statistics, logarithms, ...), physics, languages, economy, ....

 

[cestpasmyjob]

A polite correction: the children can sit the exam for the IGCSE, no coursework requirement:

International General Certificate of Secondary Education - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is that recognised as a high school diploma by Indonesia? Seems to be a commonwealth thing. And homeschooling to pass exams when it is a second language for all involved will be a challenge...

Can be done of course.

Abel, if you are homeschooling for religious reasons, note that there are many pesantren in Indonesia, which combine islamic studies with national curriculum. My BIL went to one as a teenager when he was in a religious phase, and the education was OK (though not as good as the 'normal' high schools my wife and sister in law went to)

 

[jstar]

^ I think you're right; that IGCSE might be promoted by British organizations and institutes as EF (which is in my eyes* not a reference at all), but it doesn't mean Indonesian higher education recognizes the diploma.

I do know of some selebriti who because of their roles in sinetron and hectic schedules do home schooling as well. But still, they do their exams at established schools at the same time as the regular students.

*The fact it's often used by students in private schools to bypass the GCSE doesn't help

 

[serious_fun]

The IGCSE is recognized internationally.

Its academic worth is comparable to many secondary school curricula worldwide, such as England's GCSE, the North American GED or high school diploma, Hong Kong's HKCEE,[10] Singapore's O-Level,[11] and the Indian CBSE or ICSE courses. The IGCSE prepares students for further academic study, including progression to A Level and BTEC Level 3 study, Cambridge Pre-U, IB Diploma Programme and other equivalents. It is recognised by academic institutions and employers around the world and is considered by many institutions as equivalent to the standard GCSE.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_General_Certificate_of_Secondary_Education

 

[jstar]

^ perhaps yes, but looking at your link and the comparable studies, now I realize it is similar to an O-Level and for access to (most) universities and many colleges an IB or A-Level is a prerequisite.

So then we return to the crux; even without considering the necessary level of tuition and knowledge needed, with homeschooling it becomes rather complicated to enter universities.


Something else that is perhaps even more relevant to the OP, is that to become fluent in the language, to socialize, get friends and become integrated in society, a great way is to attend the local schools. And it even offers advantages for (newly arrived) parents.
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