How do you guys invest?

[make_batik_great_again]

Do government bonds type ORI and FR both fit one of these descriptions?

„a. surat berharga Negara Republik Indonesia dan surat berharga
syariah Negara Republik Indonesia;
b. obligasi atau sukuk Badan Usaha Milik Negara yang
perdagangannya diawasi oleh Otoritas Jasa Keuangan;
c. obligasi atau sukuk lembaga pembiayaan yang dimiliki oleh pemerintah yang perdagangannya diawasi oleh Otoritas Jasa
Keuangan;
d. investasi keuangan pada bank perseps1 termasuk bank
syariah;
e. obligasi atau sukuk perusahaan swasta yang perdagangannya
diawasi oleh Otoritas Jasa Keuangan“

If I understand those words correctly, I think government bonds type ORI and FR are included here (probably they fit „c“)!?

And here, in my view, ORI and FR are included. Probably „a“ fits them. Do I understand that correctly?

a. efek bersifat utang, termasuk medium term notes;
b. sukuk;
c. saham;
d. unit penyertaan reksa dana;
e. efek beragun aset;
f. unit penyertaan dana investasi real estat;
g. deposito;
h. tabungan;
1. giro;
J. kontrak berjangka yang diperdagangkan di bursa berjangka di Indonesia; dan / atau
k. instrumen investasi pasar keuangan lainnya termasuk produk asurans1 yang dikaitkan dengan investasi, perusahaan pembiayaan, dana pensiun, atau modal ventura, yang mendapatkan persetujuan Otoritas Jasa Keuangan.

 

[jstar]

You took a very generic almost all inclusive description (even sharia versions and other investment tools and issuers )? Need to take one stap back: The FR and ORI are obviously part of governmental bonds. Now there are two types of governmental bonds (SBN); the Surat Utang Negara (SUN) and Surat Berharga Syariah Negara (SBSN).

So I think the SUNs (ORI and FR both) would fall under a. in both lists. The sharia (sukuk) version SR* would be categorized differently; under a. and b.

General Info on those FRxx and ORIxx bonds:

The FR (fixed rate) bonds are securities (in IDR of course) issued by the government. The (fixed) coupon payments which are taxed at 15% are made periodically every 6 months. Of course as investor you could benefit from capital gains in the secondary market if you plan to sell.

That ORI (Obligasi Negara Ritel) is issued specifically for non professional and individual investors (retail). Just like the FR you can trade them and they offer fixed rates to investors. In general, ORI is for three years, the minimum is 1 juta and maximum is 2 milyar. Those coupon payments are made monthly.
.
.

*I don’t know how the SR exactly works. Obviously the sharia (sukuk) version does have underlying assets as ‘insurance’, but that’s probably not so relevant for the investor and the results are similar as the ORI.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

You took a very generic almost all inclusive description (even sharia versions and other investment tools and issuers )? Need to take one stap back: The FR and ORI are obviously part of governmental bonds. Now there are two types of governmental bonds (SBN); the Surat Utang Negara (SUN) and Surat Berharga Syariah Negara (SBSN).

So I think the SUNs (ORI and FR both) would fall under a. in both lists. The sharia (sukuk) version SR* would be categorized differently; under a. and b.

General Info on those FRxx and ORIxx bonds:

The FR (fixed rate) bonds are securities (in IDR of course) issued by the government. The (fixed) coupon payments which are taxed at 15% are made periodically every 6 months. Of course as investor you could benefit from capital gains in the secondary market if you plan to sell.

That ORI (Obligasi Negara Ritel) is issued specifically for non professional and individual investors (retail). Just like the FR you can trade them and they offer fixed rates to investors. In general, ORI is for three years, the minimum is 1 juta and maximum is 2 milyar. Those coupon payments are made monthly.
.
.

*I don’t know how the SR exactly works. Obviously the sharia (sukuk) version does have underlying assets as ‘insurance’, but that’s probably not so relevant for the investor and the results are similar as the ORI.

Yes, what I posted is from the regulation which determines which financial instruments you can use to reinvest in Indonesia in order to have your abroad income (at least some sorts of income) tax-free in Indonesia (18/PMK.03/2021).

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I did not know that FR is taxed by 15%. ORI is only 10%, right?

But the FR are also issued by the government. Am I right?

 

[jstar]

ORI is only 10%, right?

But the FR are also issued by the government. Am I right?

Yes and yes.

Specs example of an ORI via BNI (a government bank):

ORI022 : Pilihan Berharga untuk Meracik Masa Depan!

Yth, Nasabah BNI.Obligasi Negara Ritel Seri ORI022 adalah Surat Utang Negara yang dijual oleh Pemerintah kepada investor ritel di Pasar Perdana Domestik, diterbitkan tanpa warkat, dan dapat diperdagangkan di Pasar Sekunder.Spesifikasi Produk OR

www.bni.co.id

 

[snpark]

Yes, what I posted is from the regulation which determines which financial instruments you can use to reinvest in Indonesia in order to have your abroad income (at least some sorts of income) tax-free in Indonesia (18/PMK.03/2021).

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I did not know that FR is taxed by 15%. ORI is only 10%, right?

But the FR are also issued by the government. Am I right?

If you have npwp here you pay less tax on your interest
Even Hsbc savings account will credit interest
Then deduct tax
Then credit back your higher allowance difference

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Thanks for the information.

I tried now to buy ORI bonds via the secondary market. But there is an error on the app which says that this product is for WNI only. I thought ORI on the secondary market is also available for WNA (I have a KITAP).

I tried again but, no matter which type of bonds I choose now, there comes a general error message on the myBCA/Welma app now that my request cannot be processed, I should try on the next working day.

Oh man, I am so annoyed by BCA. I already went 4 times to their office because the registration process was so complicated and because they had to invite me again for asking me questions to create an investor profile and then to activate some kind of ID for me. And in the end I cannot even buy the financial product I wanted to because I am WNA!? Why didn‘t they tell me before I had to go through all that registration process effort? And the second day in a row there is this error message which says my request cannot be processed.

 

[jstar]

As so often here, it could be ‘elucidated’ multiple ways…

 

[snpark]

BCA you need to instal "welma" app
Are you registered on OJX yet? Stock exchange?
I buy all my Bonds through Hsbc just because my RM is awesome and she is who I started with

I did see bca had offers but doing online also wasn't sure how to get it
My RM used to send the courier to my apartment and I'd squiggle next to the yellow tape

 

[snpark]

Are you buying on the secondary market?

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Are you buying on the secondary market?

Yes, I tried on the secondary market. But did not work out because, referring to BCA‘s app, only for WNI. I also tried to open a deposito (just to check if anything is working out), but also the message „only for WNI“ Deposito is definitely not only for WNI, I could open a deposit at Danamon for example, even when I only had KITAS.

I don’t know why BCA is giving me so much trouble. I also have Welma. Also mybca. So far, I already have installed four BCA apps (also halobca and mobilebca or so) because those consultants in the BCA office told me I needed all of them for this process of registrating as an investor being able to buy bonds. Unbelievable story...never experienced such a registration process anywhere in the world.

 

[snpark]

Try a Prioritas branch. They might be more helpful. I think Menara Kadin or Karya has a big prioritas lounge.
Or Menara BCA.
Go there and say you want to open another new account and invest etc

Maybe they are more used to bule and buying bonds etc
Plus you will get prioritas account anyway. Good for the free coffee etc

 

[make_batik_great_again]

My last try actually was in an office with a big prioritas lounge. Coffee was fine, the Oreo also They also successfully applied my SID, only had to wait one banking day. But the problem that I have now occurred then.

I‘ll probably give them one more try. I am really more than surprised that I cannot even open a deposit via mybca and Welma because the apps‘ error message claims it is only for WNI. Don‘t know if it is a problem with my account only...but I would be even more surprised if all orang asing cannot open a deposit there at the moment. Hard to believe...

 

[serious_fun]

Istri ku spoke with one of the people who help us with accounts at bank x, and he assured us that our accounts were insured by LPS for 4 billion!

Hmmm...we don't believe him, but we were impressed by the local bank employee who was able to double the government's deposit insurance for us.

 

[snpark]

Half for him that's why

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Maybe they raise LPS now in reference to Argentina‘s inflation rate

 

[gemima]

Yes, I tried on the secondary market. But did not work out because, referring to BCA‘s app, only for WNI. I also tried to open a deposito (just to check if anything is working out), but also the message „only for WNI“ Deposito is definitely not only for WNI, I could open a deposit at Danamon for example, even when I only had KITAS.

I don’t know why BCA is giving me so much trouble. I also have Welma. Also mybca. So far, I already have installed four BCA apps (also halobca and mobilebca or so) because those consultants in the BCA office told me I needed all of them for this process of registrating as an investor being able to buy bonds. Unbelievable story...never experienced such a registration process anywhere in the world.

My RM with HSBC handles everything - if I need to sign anything she sends me the docs directly using her office boy who waits for me to sign them and he directly brings them back to her - I live in the city so not sure where you are. If you have a priority account I think you should expect the same level of support with BCA. I have literally only been into the branch once to set up my account!

 

[make_batik_great_again]

My RM with HSBC handles everything - if I need to sign anything she sends me the docs directly using her office boy who waits for me to sign them and he directly brings them back to her - I live in the city so not sure where you are. If you have a priority account I think you should expect the same level of support with BCA. I have literally only been into the branch once to set up my account!

Sounds good. I gave them one last chance now, went to the office again. ORI bonds still not possible. But at least opening a deposit (which I am not interested in since the interest rate at BCA is not attractive to me) and FR bonds are possible now. Before, the app claimed that even a deposit is only for WNI. I don’t know what was wrong there. But they seemed to have solved it now.

FR takes up to 2 or 3 days until it is visible in my app‘s portfolio section. So, I hope this marathon of buying bonds ends in the middle of next week after visiting bca offices 5 times and downloading 4 different apps.

 

[snpark]

My RM with HSBC handles everything - if I need to sign anything she sends me the docs directly using her office boy who waits for me to sign them and he directly brings them back to her - I live in the city so not sure where you are. If you have a priority account I think you should expect the same level of support with BCA. I have literally only been into the branch once to set up my account!

Maybe we had the same girl hahaha

 

[make_batik_great_again]

One question popped into my mind after doing my tax declaration. I was surprised that they ask for the received interest in the e-filing formular. Why do you have to declare your interest (bunga)? I mean it is already taxed when you receive interest from a bank (for a deposit for example). Why do you have to declare it in the e-filing then although it has already been taxed?

 

[snpark]

One question popped into my mind after doing my tax declaration. I was surprised that they ask for the received interest in the e-filing formular. Why do you have to declare your interest (bunga)? I mean it is already taxed when you receive interest from a bank (for a deposit for example). Why do you have to declare it in the e-filing then although it has already been taxed?

To see if your numbers add up