INFORMATION AND COMMUNITY FOR EXPATS IN INDONESIA
How do you guys invest?
- Thread starter Ruserious
- Start date
I agree for blocking all of the VPNs it is highly unlikely. What I am thinking is that they might only do that for a very critical issue such as national security, supporting separatism, etc. But it is too small and not worthy to do that just to block access to offshore account, preventing capital flight.
It is structurally simple for VPN providers to reroute traffic. So if the Indonesian authorities naively starts clamping them down, it will trigger an endless cat-and-mouse game. The VPN Providers won't give up easily, the higher the censorship, the more demand skyrockets, giving them a massive financial reason to maintain their service.
For international tourists, they might still do it without access to their account online. For instance withdrawing money using foreign and credit & debit card via Indonesian ATM network. They could also call their overseas bank via telephone banking.
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Helpful Herbert
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2019
- Messages
- 1,894
What you write doesn't make any sense. You seem to think that Indonesia is capable of blocking all the thousands of banks and trading platforms worldwide, and also all VPNs? And that they would want to?
While anything is possible, for example in a very high surveillance society like China or North Korea, the chances of that happening in Indonesia are so small as to be irrelevant.
Technically, they have the ability to block access as much as they want and not that hard to do that. But I never said they would block 'all the thousands of banks and trading platforms worldwide, and also all VPNs' especially since doing so it would also cause self harm and economic damage.
They have been blocking access to hundred of apps, trading platforms in the past, and you never know which platforms they’ll block next, and it might end up being yours, so having a plan B is just important to know.
Don't forget that using an account outside its allowed region usually breaks the platform's T&C. Since these providers aren't licensed by the OJK/Bappebti, you won't have a leg to stand on if your account gets flagged or shut down.
Someone confidently claim that
"You can't block a phone application for a bank. Trading your securities is a feature built within the bank website or app'
USA Versus China in Science & Technology
Interesting fact, even with 300mill peeps here, Amex cannot even issue 5,000 platinum cards yet I know because I know the PD and asked her when will they do Centurian even issued through SG, she said we have to issue 5,000 platinum cards first before we are allowed black, so even with all the...
www.expatindo.org
If you rely on that information especially from someone who said to have worked in financial industry for decades in the past, to assume your offshore apps are safe, you're mistaken. It's technically not that hard to do it, and indonesian authorities have already done it in the past . There are multiple ways to implement it and access can be cut off at the account, institution, or network level even if the app itself remains technically installed.
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Aren't you a bit too much paranoid ?From these links
USA Versus China in Science & Technology
Interesting fact, even with 300mill peeps here, Amex cannot even issue 5,000 platinum cards yet I know because I know the PD and asked her when will they do Centurian even issued through SG, she said we have to issue 5,000 platinum cards first before we are allowed black, so even with all the...People talk about using offshore bank and trading accounts, but no one discusses a backup plan for when Indonesian regulators (OJK, Bappebti) inevitably block them. Past experience shows these technical blocks are easy to implement and very plausible. Just because an account is accessible today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow.How do you guys invest?
I hear that some kind of substance in wine that can reduce noise sensitivity. Needs approximately a bottle though to hear (or not hear) the effect though. Some people (like me) needs less, some people need more. It's called cork. One in each ear
Additionally, operating an account outside its approved jurisdiction often violates the broker's Terms & Conditions. If your account gets flagged for this, the platform isn't at fault, and you won't have access to ombudsman protection.
Ad-hoc workarounds like (post #787) placing trades while travelling or having family abroad execute them via WhatsApp messaging are too slow. Also you are relying on your next trip outside Indonesian territory and/or other people to manage your trading. Trading demands instant execution and making overseas trip and/or third-party dependency is a major risk.
I read from other forums and social media that some people in Indonesia are using VPN to bypass restriction. If the authorities block one VPN they will switch it to another VPN which has not been blocked. It is relatively easy to switch the VPN but not so easy to switch the offshore Banks, Trading accounts. But this solution is not ideal either.
Does any practical contingency plans still exist if access to offshore accounts from Indonesia is cut off?
At the moment it are mainly the US and EU who block accounts, seize accounts and property, block access to the SWIFT system etc..for people they have decided they don't like. Russians for exemple...
harryopal1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2016
- Messages
- 2,709
Pantaieima does often seem rather intensely didactic but it seems a valid point in this context to have a plan B in case the government were to suddenly widen its range of blocks. As someone not investing, my underlying concern is the vulnerability of banks that caught by corruption within.
Technically, they have the ability to block access as much as they want and not that hard to do that. But I never said they would block 'all the thousands of banks and trading platforms worldwide, and also all VPNs' especially since doing so it would also cause self harm and economic damage.
They have been blocking access to hundred of apps, trading platforms in the past, and you never know which platforms they’ll block next, and it might end up being yours, so having a plan B is just important to know.
Don't forget that using an account outside its allowed region usually breaks the platform's T&C. Since these providers aren't licensed by the OJK/Bappebti, you won't have a leg to stand on if your account gets flagged or shut down.
Someone confidently claim that
"You can't block a phone application for a bank. Trading your securities is a feature built within the bank website or app'
USA Versus China in Science & Technology
Interesting fact, even with 300mill peeps here, Amex cannot even issue 5,000 platinum cards yet I know because I know the PD and asked her when will they do Centurian even issued through SG, she said we have to issue 5,000 platinum cards first before we are allowed black, so even with all the...
If you rely on that information especially from someone who said to have worked in financial industry for decades in the past, to assume your offshore apps are safe, you're mistaken. It's technically not that hard to do it, and indonesian authorities have already done it in the past . There are multiple ways to implement it and access can be cut off at the account, institution, or network level even if the app itself remains technically installed.
We know you mean me. I'm living rent free in your head 24/7 so obsessed with me and my career lol. Don't understand why you so fascinated with my life and what I do and did.
I can prove everything I said and did. Not that I should have to. Thank god you only know 10% of my life because I know for sure you would die of jealousy if you knew my showbiz part of my life lol.
Still. Here I am fighting an anonymous troll on some expat forum on the internet. More fool me for engaging with you and allowing myself to get triggered by you
TBH, I can't understand why many people on here like to complicate their lives and judge people they have never met.
Maybe one day a "board members meeting" would be an in interesting way to clear things and to build some cohesion ?
Hopefully you never net me....you would be in for a shock ?
The only shock would be that it wouldn't be a shock. I don't hang out in Eastern Promise so that's a good start.
Not many people cares about or envy's another person's career, especially if it is just an online, not face to face. But some people also seek information via the forum. When someone posts information in an open forum and uses their credentials to push their point you believe is incorrect, it needs to be called out and challenge them to defend it. Noone is asking or care someone's private life, personal information, but you will need to proof, or at least defend your points.using authoritative, verifiable sources.
Here are a few examples involving finance and investing:
You can't block a phone application for a bank. Trading your securities is a feature built within the bank website or app
For a credit card, you will need to clear your statement balance each month, even it is zero fee for purchase credit card. I doubt anyone with basic financial sense will ever do that.
Give a challenge to people to comeback in one year to see whether the open banking system such as 'True Layer' 'Plaid'' will still exist. The challenge has been answered they even exist beyond one year with more banks, financial institutions are adopting it.
It is difficult to withdraw even GPB2,000 in the counter in the UK and Europe.
Giving the wrong Information about how to calculate the return on investment on property renting, where many other costs related to investment are not counted, ending up try to mislead people a good return with 100% ROI on property investment in Bali when in fact that figure come out from the miscalculation.
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I don't know your nationality but the problem is you don't fully understand the concept of literal.
Trump: let's nuke those Iranian bastards
Security of War: Sir we can't do that!
Again obviously physically he could and can. But the SoW saying you can't maybe means legally and morally.
As many others here have also said, we are not disputing the technical abilities but the reality of something.
When saying can't do that. Please understand the intricies of the English language before you go off screaming on about me being wrong all the time.
If you say you want to f#*k a horse I will say ugh gross you can't do that. Please prove me wrong. Happy to wait. Take tiktok for proof
Now again withdrawing sums of cash in London for example. Please remind me of the last time you were in the UK and walked into a physical branch of a high street bank and asked to withdraw £10,000 in £50's. Within minutes. Should be easy right? No. Even £2,000 they will ask you so many questions and even claim not to have that much cash available "at short notice"
Even BCA here to withdraw more than100jt they will ask you to pre-order it a day before or at least a few hours. Why? Because they money they take in has to be sent to Central Bank for verification, cleaning etc etc. They have a limited pile of notes to pay out so if you walk in and ask for 500jt in cash it's physically a lot so you might have to wait an hour or only take 100jt unless you have the w/a of the manager and text him you need money etc etc the same way I text him and say please expect €50,000 from my client this week. Heres his passport and the transaction details why who when and his passport copy even the invoice I've sent him.
What else. Oh yeh you and your damn RoI. So what exactly is your problem?
Jealousy?
I invested x amount in my friends project. 12 months later not only shee returned my original initial capital but to her and my delight the guest house had been so successful and busy that she had been able to treble the monthly rates and therefore made so much profit that I was about to make the same amount back as I had lent. She has just finished the construction on the 4th property without any extra cash by simply reinvesting the monthly income / profit to the building of each subsequent property. It's all down to the design also.
She very cleverly designed all the guesthouses with a minimalistic design just using concrete for the shelves and what not so there is no addition costs for wooden furniture. Each property is only 2 floors with a large co sharing kitchen and a big pool. 2 floors of 8-10 units each and 2 large 1 bed apartments at one end.
Takes less than 6 months to build such a thing. Small 30sqm room goes for 10jt a month and the 2 apartments 50sqm rent for 22jt a month and both are booked paid for a full year and have a waitlist and indeed for the smaller units. Meanwhile Jakarta a small kos room is 3-4jt only and my 3 bed 104sqm unit in Bellagio I pay monthly 15jt since 2015
Bali is ridiculous prices
So yes it is possible if you are clever to genuinely make a good return on money in Bali not being a crypto boy.
In fact even the fickle world of f&b I have friends and clients who opened a bar in Kuningan in 2016 and a year later it had paid for itself and after that year it was easily covering itself from turnover and the rest was profit. 500jt on a busy weekend night and monthly around 5b rupiah.
So in reality all your BS return on investment is all fictional made up numbers because you have no idea what will happen e.g COVID or banning tiktok or tariffs etc etc.
In Senopati area and I need to watch what I'm saying here but no one is opening a venue there to make money primary objective. It's a way to be creative with questionably acquired funds
If one bar has been a bar previous six times in 6 years in the same location and same concept as it's previous lives why on earth does some one else open a similar style prohibition etc cocktail bar.
Maybe because the same group or owner has a lot of cash they need to spend so they open a new bar and spend billions on reno and refurb etc.
You should check out the car park below the Four Seasons apartments and see what luxury cars are stored there with no licence plates all covered up and no tax paid. Even at nights only 25% of the apartments have tenants. Look at the lights. All off. Bought and paid for in cash.
I know ceweks and ani2 who don't work and live in Setiabudi kos and "own" a Range Rover. Go figure.
As for giving incorrect info certainly on this forum and the previous one I pride myself on always giving correct info regarding visa and other such.
Marcus particularly on the old forum was a superstar and here also is highly respected for his advice and opinion
Atlantis also but he's a lot quieter.
And even the Bali contingent have decades of knowledge and experience but not the energy or desire to argue with you
Shadrach rip had a few attempts but sadly is now AWOL
Marcus tried but is SMH in frustration
And you love to copy paste and post YT videos about random irrelevant topics and then hours or days later edit your posts when you get called out for errors or inconsistencies
Marcus particularly on the old forum was a superstar and here also is highly respected for his advice and opinion
Atlantis also but he's a lot quieter.
And even the Bali contingent have decades of knowledge and experience but not the energy or desire to argue with you
Shadrach rip had a few attempts but sadly is now AWOL
Marcus tried but is SMH in frustration
And you love to copy paste and post YT videos about random irrelevant topics and then hours or days later edit your posts when you get called out for errors or inconsistencies
MSCI proposed that Indonesia become 'a standalone market'. Following the proposal, the JCI plummeted on October 16th, leading to a trading halt.
Indonesia gets 'wake-up call' as MSCI prepares to expel it from global indexes
Indonesia stocks plunge after MSCI says market could be cut from indices
Indonesia's stock market is currently at risk of a major downgrade by MSCI from an Emerging Market straight down to a Standalone Market, skipping the Frontier tier entirely.
While this is still just a proposal under review, dropping two tiers at once is extremely rare. Previous examples include Argentina, Ukraine, and Zimbabwe. If it happens, it could trigger severe market fallout. Because mainstream global indexes will typically not include Standalone markets, passive index funds and ETFs would be forced to sell off their Indonesian holdings, potentially sparking indirect massive capital outflows.
Indonesia gets 'wake-up call' as MSCI prepares to expel it from global indexes
Indonesia stocks plunge after MSCI says market could be cut from indices
Indonesia's stock market is currently at risk of a major downgrade by MSCI from an Emerging Market straight down to a Standalone Market, skipping the Frontier tier entirely.
While this is still just a proposal under review, dropping two tiers at once is extremely rare. Previous examples include Argentina, Ukraine, and Zimbabwe. If it happens, it could trigger severe market fallout. Because mainstream global indexes will typically not include Standalone markets, passive index funds and ETFs would be forced to sell off their Indonesian holdings, potentially sparking indirect massive capital outflows.
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