How do you guys invest?

[harryopal1]

Who was posting about trusting the Indostock market ?

https://jakartaglobe.id/business/prabowo-furious-over-stock-market-rout-after-msci-warning-brother-says

I find this report is blocked. Can you paste and copy here?

 

[Balifrog]

I find this report is blocked. Can you paste and copy here?

How can it be blocked for you and not for me ?
I am in Indonesia also

 

[harryopal1]

How can it be blocked for you and not for me ?
I am in Indonesia also

I had a VPN open locating me in Australia. Closed that temporarily and the link then opened. In an earlier post I had said, "It seems any entity involving large amounts of money is like a dead body attracting blow flies."

 

[snpark]

Jakarta. President Prabowo Subianto was “furious” after Indonesia’s stock market plunged following a warning from MSCI over transparency and potential trading manipulation, his brother Hashim Djojohadikusumo said on Wednesday.

Speaking in Jakarta, Hashim said the government received four letters from MSCI highlighting concerns in Indonesia’s capital markets.

“President Prabowo was extremely angry about what happened that week, especially because the nation’s honor was at stake and many retail investors suffered losses,” Hashim told the ASEAN Climate Forum at the Indonesia Stock Exchange building.

On Jan. 28, MSCI postponed its review of Indonesian equities and raised the possibility of downgrading the country from emerging market to frontier market status. The announcement triggered sustained pressure on the benchmark index and sparked calls for tighter scrutiny of market regulators.

During the final week of January, the Indonesia Stock Exchange index slid nearly 7%, wiping tens of billions of dollars off market capitalization. IDX Chief Executive Officer Iman Rachman later stepped down, followed by the resignations of two senior officials at the Financial Services Authority (OJK).

“The Indonesian government is determined to protect the credibility and honor of this country. For Mr. Prabowo, the dignity of the republic is paramount. That’s why he will monitor the capital market very closely,” Hashim said.

He warned that fraud risks always emerge when supervision is weak, underscoring the critical role of regulators in ensuring that no parties attempt to deceive investors.

Hashim also sought to reassure foreign investors that the government remains committed to safeguarding market integrity.

“So the president and the government hope you stay vigilant,” he said, addressing OJK Commissioner Hasan Fawzi and acting IDX CEO Jeffrey Hendrik, who were attending the event. “The government will be watching you very closely — and I mean it.”

 

[Pak Tani]

I haven't been to any gold sellers here lately but i hear that if you try to buy using the Antam's price the answer usually is 'barang kosong', unless you're willing to pay 10% over the Antam's price.

Yes, physical gold, the gold bars, are sometimes difficult to obtain. A month or three ago, the smaller Antam bars of 20g or less were completely unavailable here in East Java.
The premium you pay for Antam bars has been high for a long time. This morning I checked with us, and it was Rp640,000 per gram (24%, for a 10g bar). The gold price at that time was Rp2,675,000/gram, so this bar would have cost Rp33,150,000.
UBS is another well-known brand in Indonesia. In the past, their premium was a quarter to a third of Antam's, but it could be higher now. Unfortunately, it was unavailable today. The premium on the private label gold from a large gold store chain here was Rp175,000/g (10g bar), Rp180,000/g (5g bar), and Rp210,000 (2.5g bar). This 6 to 8% premium is almost a threefold increase in just a few months.
In my experience, if you buy gold bars in a regular store, you have to show ID. You always receive a sales receipt from the store in your name and a store will not buy any gold (bars) back without this receipt. And I believe you also have to file a tax return. Perhaps for this reason, but certainly also because of the high premium on Antam gold bars, there's a fairly vibrant gray market for them. Buying and selling is done through an intermediary. You can get a better price because of a rather large margin on that premium, and some may prefer it for anonymity.

 

[pantaiema]

Yes, physical gold, the gold bars, are sometimes difficult to obtain. A month or three ago, the smaller Antam bars of 20g or less were completely unavailable here in East Java.
The premium you pay for Antam bars has been high for a long time. This morning I checked with us, and it was Rp640,000 per gram (24%, for a 10g bar). The gold price at that time was Rp2,675,000/gram, so this bar would have cost Rp33,150,000.
UBS is another well-known brand in Indonesia. In the past, their premium was a quarter to a third of Antam's, but it could be higher now. Unfortunately, it was unavailable today. The premium on the private label gold from a large gold store chain here was Rp175,000/g (10g bar), Rp180,000/g (5g bar), and Rp210,000 (2.5g bar). This 6 to 8% premium is almost a threefold increase in just a few months.
In my experience, if you buy gold bars in a regular store, you have to show ID. You always receive a sales receipt from the store in your name and a store will not buy any gold (bars) back without this receipt. And I believe you also have to file a tax return. Perhaps for this reason, but certainly also because of the high premium on Antam gold bars, there's a fairly vibrant gray market for them. Buying and selling is done through an intermediary. You can get a better price because of a rather large margin on that premium, and some may prefer it for anonymity.

In modern day of investing, people don't need a physical gold. People can now gain exposure to gold’s price movement (both the wins and the losses) without ever touching the metal itself. People could for instance easily track and gain (or loss) similar returns by investing (or trading) in gold as a commodity through major investing / trading platforms. Alternatively, buy ETFs that track gold and other precious metals, such as SPDR Gold Shares (GLD) or iShares Gold Trust (IAU). Some investors also combine this approach with shares in reputable gold mining companies to track the price of gold more closely but with improved diversification to lower the risk.

In the past, only large investment firms and hedge funds could participate because of the significant capital required. Today, with the emerging of low cost investing platform any retail investors can invest in gold through commodities or the stock market with as little as $10, often with very low or even zero fees, as some platforms earn revenue from the bid-ask spread.

In my personal opinion, people who store physical gold at home may have more reason to worry about personal safety than about a potential drop in gold prices.

 

[pantaiema]

For the first time exchange rate EUR/IDR reached 1:20,000 now. For companies which depend on imports from the EU this is probably not a good development. For exporting companies to Europe (and also for tourists from Europe) pretty fine, of course.

Do you also notice that the LPS (Lembaga Penjamin Simpanan) differentiate the saving in IDR vs the saving in major foreign currencies (USD, EUR, SGD, AUD, GBP, JPY, etc) in the government guarantee scheme. For instance as at today 3.5% VS 2.0 %. I think reason is obvious.

 

[pantaiema]

Correct me please if I am wrong:

The Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra cases were serious corruption scandals, but they involved state-owned insurance entities rather than typical publicly listed operating companies. These events point to governance weaknesses in specific institutions, not to the entire Indonesian equity market. Comparable corporate scandals have also occurred in developed markets, so this risk is not unique to Indonesia. In practice, the highest risks are concentrated in small-cap stocks, maybe also politically connected firms, and speculative trading. Large Indonesian blue-chip companies generally have long track records, reputable auditors, and broad institutional ownership. Issues such as the BCA case are often cited without sufficient historical context, particularly the Asian Financial Crisis.

Actually, in all three cases, Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra, officials from the Financial Services Authority (OJK) and the Indonesia Stock Exchange (IDX) were scrutinised, and in several instances, high-ranking officials were named as suspect and some are actually arrested. The core issue in these scandals wasn't just poor investment; it was "goreng saham" (stock manipulation, insider trading) where officials of thee IDX and OJK allegedly turned a blind eye or actively helped facilitate crooked trades. Not to mention, the judicial systems, the judges, officials in the courts are not uncommon to get involved in collusions when the case go to court.

I would not agree with the statement that the stock market in Indonesia is not trustworthy. This conclusion is too general. In my view, major blue-chip companies are relatively safe from large-scale scandals, and classic pump-and-dump schemes are unlikely in these stocks. Small-cap stocks, however, should be approached with caution unless one has detailed company-specific knowledge. Diversification and long-term, index-based strategies can further reduce these risks for retail investors.

I’d also love to believe that but my own research and facts that have been reported in the news tells a different story. Even if this was just a few 'bad apples' rather than the whole system being rotten, we can’t forget that these officials represent the institutions they work for. Their literal job description is to protect the market’s credibility, investors from fraudulent activities and not to jump into the game as players themselves

Another recent case. MIRAE case

Mirae Asset Probes Disappearance of Rp71 Billion in Customer Funds

Mirae Asset affirmed that it will pursue legal action should the investigation uncover any misuse, false reporting, or actions detrimental to the firm

en.tempo.co

https://jakartaglobe.id/business/indonesia-freezes-859-million-in-shares-in-mirae-asset-insider-trading-probe

The fact that the CEO of IDX and some of other higher ranking officials resign (or forced to resign?) before this MIRAE case goes to public tell a lot of things. It is extremely unlikely the IPO, stock manipulation, insider trading (goreng saham) activities in this scale, like the shares suddenly surged 7,150% undetected by staffs in IDX and/or OJK.

It’s also important to note that this is only one of a few cases that have come to light, and even then, not because financial authorities or the stock exchange reported them to law enforcement, but because victims came forward and the media picked up the story. This leads to a troubling question: how many other cases remain undiscovered?.

Now consider a situation where the investors are foreigners who must keep their funds invested to maintain their residence permits. Cases like this are even less likely to come to light. They would have to pursue legal action at their own expense, with uncertain odds of success, and risk being deported before any resolution is reached.

 

[Pak Tani]

In modern day of investing, people don't need a physical gold. People can now gain exposure to gold’s price movement (both the wins and the losses) without ever touching the metal itself. People could for instance easily track and gain (or loss) similar returns by investing (or trading) in gold as a commodity through major investing / trading platforms. Alternatively, buy ETFs that track gold and other precious metals, such as SPDR Gold Shares (GLD) or iShares Gold Trust (IAU). Some investors also combine this approach with shares in reputable gold mining companies to track the price of gold more closely but with improved diversification to lower the risk.

In the past, only large investment firms and hedge funds could participate because of the significant capital required. Today, with the emerging of low cost investing platform any retail investors can invest in gold through commodities or the stock market with as little as $10, often with very low or even zero fees, as some platforms earn revenue from the bid-ask spread.

In my personal opinion, people who store physical gold at home may have more reason to worry about personal safety than about a potential drop in gold prices.

I agree with you, nowadays there are many ways to invest in gold that are very likely to be less risky, easier, cost less and could possibly be more profitable. However, as a muslim, I am somewhat restricted in how to trade this commodity. Under islamic law, gold is a ribawi item, meaning it is subject to strict rules to avoid riba (usury/interest). For a gold transaction to be syari'ah-compliant, the transaction should be in one sitting where the money and the gold change hands. So no futures, paper gold or late deliveries etc.
I am aware that some banks, like BSI and others, have "syari'ah" options where they store the gold you just bought online in a vault and you can then take delivery of the physical bullion whenever you want. I doubt this meets the syari'ah conditions since no gold changes hands in transactions like this. It looks like a scam to me.

 

[snpark]

You better to buy the actual physical stuff and keep it. Don't trust options and trading and all that nonsense. Just buy the coins and little 10g bars. At least it's real and in your hands.

Or have a safety deposit box to store it. Which is what you mentioned.

 

[snpark]

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