How do you guys invest?

make_batik_great_again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
190
I am waiting for Boeing to reach $100.

I am a bit sceptical regarding that field. But if I had to choose, I would prefer Airbus since Boeing still has a big problem beside this corona crisis (737 max) and, at least, Airbus did not have any cancellations in April.

In your opinion, what speaks for Boeing compared to Airbus? I think Boeing has a better market position reagrding armor supply. That might speak for Boeing.
 

Will_M

Active Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
52
I find it all pretty fascinating, this thread.

I’m a very naive investor and use a investment advisor and my aims to determine my investment.

I have two portfolios, one has heavy penalties for early exit. The other is more of a “current account” type deal that I top up as and when. The cash is then allocated to the different funds within, set by a ratio I pre determined.

I don’t really have the knowledge or time to buy low, sell high move funds, withdrawal funds etc.. I guess I’m losing a certain % to the fund managers and my advisor for this privilege. They always take a handling fee regardless of market performance. Not sure if I’m right or wrong ?
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
846
I don’t really have the knowledge or time to buy low, sell high move funds, withdrawal funds etc.. I guess I’m losing a certain % to the fund managers and my advisor for this privilege. They always take a handling fee regardless of market performance. Not sure if I’m right or wrong ?

[In the US] Studies have consistently shown that a significant majority of active fund managers have poorer returns than following the whole market (like an S&P500 mutual fund). A whole market fund with low fees (0.1% is easily attainable) is typically the best choice, better than active managers.

Financial advisors can be helpful to give guidance with the investment vehicles (like 401k versus IRA), and determine how to balance your portfolio for your risk tolerance and the amount of time you have until retirement (higher risk, heavier in stocks/equities when young, lower risk, heavier in bonds as you approach retirement). Though a few days of reading a book or two, or many free online articles, would help you to understand those issues as much as needed, unless you are very wealthy or have very unusual tax considerations.
 

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,458
I am a bit sceptical regarding that field. But if I had to choose, I would prefer Airbus since Boeing still has a big problem beside this corona crisis (737 max) and, at least, Airbus did not have any cancellations in April.

In your opinion, what speaks for Boeing compared to Airbus? I think Boeing has a better market position reagrding armor supply. That might speak for Boeing.
737 Max is back in service in the USA at least as of December 29 by AA on the Miami to LaGuardia route. Other airlines are waiting to see if it falls out of the sky before they follow suit. Stock price was up a small fraction yesterday, but a looser on this, the last trading day of 2020.
 
Last edited:

Balifrog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
341
For those "playing" on the NYSE, have a look at SPAC's.

They have becoming very popular in 2020, and for small investors a way to get in early, before a company becomes public.





Many multibaggers in 2020, but of course due diligence is required.
Although if you buy at the creation of the SPAC (usually 1 share = 10USD), you have little risk as you can "reclaim" you 10$ if a deal / merger is not done within the preset time limit.
 

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,458
I am not into faddish alternatives, especially those that have a scam-like odor.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
Okay guys, so I read much of this threat. I think it may have gotten derailed. So I want to ask again, if you all don't mind, with more details.

The Question:

I'm an American, with a little bit of cash, living in Indonesia seeking to invest. I have a KITAS and my wife is Indonesian. I'm not worried about investing in the US, at this moment. I'm seeking to learn the ropes of investing in Indonesia for 2021. I'm not try to get rich quick. I'm looking for intelligent ways of investing in Indonesia.


Thank you all in Advance I appreciate this community and all the great help.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,104
Define "invest"
For time being just keep it cash / liquid
Buy some bonds at least get 7-8% p.a
Avoid buying property and any online trading bitcoin blah blah etc

What amount do you have to invest? $50,000? $200,000?

I have some small business ventures in guest house / kos style things where I have invested / lent to indonesian partner for construction and rental out so I get my money back like half 2022 and half 2023 and then 5% of the annual income for 25 years (example)

Depends how much you have and how long and who you know
Stick to things you can "control"
Don't be a partner. Be a lender. Lend the money and agree get X back after Y years instalment etc rather than as a partner shareholders etc profit share cos then if it goes tits up u will lose

Better to agree to just lend money like a bank would
Lend example 300jt for 3 years and they pay back 10jt a month
 

Banana72

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
559
I just got into swing trading using TD Ameritrade’s Thinkorswim platform. I lost thousands a couple of months ago when the market tanked while I was holding MSFT and GOOG. Thankfully I have recouped those losses through TSLA and UBER.

Armed with the knowledge gained after hundreds of hours reading, watching video tutorials, and practicing paper trade, I feel much better about my investments regardless of market direction.

I’m watching MRNA (maker of Covid vaccine) and CODX (maker of Covid test kits). Might get in if I see a good entry point.
Time flies! Hope you're still holding on to TSLA....I disregarded my niece's input on Nio (at $4)...and spread some funds on various Covid stocks (big hope on VXRT), it went up couple hundred percent..I felt like a genius...of course it went down again..and now hovering near $7..although I'm still up quite a bit, but it hurts looking at Nio's price of $60+ I do okay with my AMD though...from the lowest low of $1+ I managed to sell little by little as it climbed higher...now at $92 waiting for Earnings early next week. Never used Thinkorswim...was that the one that they decided to shut down after a while?

I tried Marijuana (just the) stocks...that didn't go well...and missing the boat on solar/EV...but decided to buy F (Ford) as it's one of the last EV play that's still affordable...we'll see if 2021 will be the year of Covid stocks again..
 

Banana72

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
559
Okay guys, so I read much of this threat. I think it may have gotten derailed. So I want to ask again, if you all don't mind, with more details.

The Question:

I'm an American, with a little bit of cash, living in Indonesia seeking to invest. I have a KITAS and my wife is Indonesian. I'm not worried about investing in the US, at this moment. I'm seeking to learn the ropes of investing in Indonesia for 2021. I'm not try to get rich quick. I'm looking for intelligent ways of investing in Indonesia.


Thank you all in Advance I appreciate this community and all the great help.
Well, since you said 'not try to get rich quick'...just do combination of CDs, FR (Government obligation), and a bit of blue chip mutual fund (reksa dana). CDs I think still earn you about 5% (minus 20% tax), FR..you can get about 6-8....reksa dana can probably get you into the double digits..but if you might occasionally get a heartburn with Indo market volatility. I have about 25-30% of my funds in Indonesian stocks now, but I do have somebody manage it for me (but I set my objective in the beginning and we meet/talk once a month to review/revise strategies and she'd update on what she'll do next, etc...so far I'm about 15% in a year..not too bad.
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,521
Time flies! Hope you're still holding on to TSLA....I disregarded my niece's input on Nio (at $4)...and spread some funds on various Covid stocks (big hope on VXRT), it went up couple hundred percent..I felt like a genius...of course it went down again..and now hovering near $7..although I'm still up quite a bit, but it hurts looking at Nio's price of $60+ I do okay with my AMD though...from the lowest low of $1+ I managed to sell little by little as it climbed higher...now at $92 waiting for Earnings early next week. Never used Thinkorswim...was that the one that they decided to shut down after a while?

I tried Marijuana (just the) stocks...that didn't go well...and missing the boat on solar/EV...but decided to buy F (Ford) as it's one of the last EV play that's still affordable...we'll see if 2021 will be the year of Covid stocks again..
I wish I still have TSLA. Live and learn.

Made a little money with NIO, now looking for another entry point.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
Define "invest"
For time being just keep it cash / liquid
Buy some bonds at least get 7-8% p.a
Avoid buying property and any online trading bitcoin blah blah etc

What amount do you have to invest? $50,000? $200,000?

I have some small business ventures in guest house / kos style things where I have invested / lent to indonesian partner for construction and rental out so I get my money back like half 2022 and half 2023 and then 5% of the annual income for 25 years (example)

Depends how much you have and how long and who you know
Stick to things you can "control"
Don't be a partner. Be a lender. Lend the money and agree get X back after Y years instalment etc rather than as a partner shareholders etc profit share cos then if it goes tits up u will lose

Better to agree to just lend money like a bank would
Lend example 300jt for 3 years and they pay back 10jt a month


Invest: put some money in and back some money.


So Im married to an Indonesian, and we have our own project. We have a passion so we don't really get paid. We just do our own thing. So I don't know any big shots.


However, I have savings and I do invest. But I'm scared. Indonesia is interesting to say the least.


When I said I had some cash to invest, I meant a very small amount. I work because of passion, not for money. Nevertheless, I know that passion won't sustain us. Therefore, I would like to learn to invest in Indonesia so that I can continue doing what I do.


At the moment, I only have 20k to invest. I'm a poor "bule" not a rich one:)

Currently, I have two investments that get a fixed 12% per year.


Im also invested in the IDX. I tried swing trading, and am at a little over 16% per year... But if I would have just left it alone I would have been at 30% or more.


So I switch to long term investing, hoping to get a bigger return.


I was considering crypto and property but you mentioned not to...


I'd like to hear more. I'm opened minded and open to hear other perspectives.


I just don't know how you can trust to lend out your money. I have heard so money testimonies of people running off.


I'm looking to beat my 12% passive income. I'm not sure if that's realistic. Especially since it's fixed and low risk.


I appreciate your input and thank you for responding, I know it takes time.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
Well, since you said 'not try to get rich quick'...just do combination of CDs, FR (Government obligation), and a bit of blue chip mutual fund (reksa dana). CDs I think still earn you about 5% (minus 20% tax), FR..you can get about 6-8....reksa dana can probably get you into the double digits..but if you might occasionally get a heartburn with Indo market volatility. I have about 25-30% of my funds in Indonesian stocks now, but I do have somebody manage it for me (but I set my objective in the beginning and we meet/talk once a month to review/revise strategies and she'd update on what she'll do next, etc...so far I'm about 15% in a year..not too bad.
Thank you for responding. I appreciate it. Would you kindly look at the response to snpark. It will give a better idea of where I'm at and what I'm working with .



Once again, thank you for your input and advice.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,104
12% is good and not to be sniffed at
You'd be doubling your money every 6-7 years and it's safe and accessible

Moral is don't be greedy!
 

Banana72

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
559
I second what snpark said....12% per year (assuming it's a pretty safe investment) is a good return. Is it pretty liquid? If it's at least semi-liquid, and safe...you got a pretty decent investment imo...if you feel the need to be more actively involved...maybe just use 10-20% and play with stocks but know that higher reward=higher risk.

If you still like doing the swing trading..just use a smaller percentage of your whole portfolio...and keep some of it in the index and let it be...(like you said you wanted a long term investment). I think you got all three working for you...the swing trading, the index, and the 12% all good to go in my opinion.
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,521
Look, the S&P index fund return for 2020 alone was about 15%, including the huge crash in March with the first wave of Covid. The return since January 4th up to date is about 4%, that has only been 3 weeks!
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
Hmmm,


Perhaps you guys are right. I thought I read somewhere that the IDX, on avargae, returns about 25% per year. So I was a little concerned. I tried to look it up today, and couldn't find that info. So I may have been mistaken.


Good moral, I pray I'm not being greedy. Will reevaluate. The human heart is deceitful.


As for the 12% it's safe, very liquid and backed up. If I take it out before a year's time, I only get like 8 percent.



@snpark


I'm sincerely interested in hearing what you have to say about stocks, bitcoin and buying property. Why not?




@Banana


I think I will take your advice and pull some money out of IDX. Only leaving about 20 percent of my portfolio in stocks.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,104
I dont want to get into a long commentary but:

Stocks, best via a mutual fund for medium long term depending on your age and risk
Bitcoin: I just not a believer in such a virtual finite thing. Far too volatile with no reasoning for the ups and downs. It could lose 20% tomorrow and gain 20% the week after for no apparent reason

Property. Not liquid and in Indonesia it's a renters markets. There's limited if any capital appreciation, vague ownership rules and prices are over valued. And you will struggle to find any tenant let alone a 10% or 5% yield.
My $300,000 apartment that I rent for only 15jt a month is a good example. My tower is half empty. No one is going to pay $2000 a month these days for where I live (30jt a month?!) And that's only 7% yield
And no way in 10 years is it going to be worth $450,000
Plus the rules here of ownership and if expats are suddenly expelled overnight or banned from ownership etcetc. Better to have $300,000 in the bank cash making you 7% and use that to pay rent
Just my view
Of course if you're married and planning to live and retire here, buy some land and build your own new villa from foundations up, western style with drainage, a/c, electricity, broadband, sewage etc
That's it
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,802
Messages
73,490
Members
2,131
Latest member
67nature17
Top Bottom