House Construction Questions

[serious_fun]

I've been looking through the posts here regarding the construction of housing and related issues, (some great suggestions and tips ), but I haven't yet seen any comments re: sets of architectural/engineering drawings and inspections.

Is it normal practice in Indo to be given access to a set of drawings before purchasing a property?

Have any of you requested/demanded that a clause be included in ownership/sales documents which declares that national building standards (Standar Nasional Indonesia) have been met?

Have any of you had inspectors check the property during construction? Is a house inspection common practice in Indonesia, or is it only something done to satisfy a bank if applying for loan(s)?

FYI: My concern is about the safety of two-story homes using single masonry brick walls and lightweight rebar.

makasih banyak

 

[jstar]

No, no and no.

Seriously. Expect the worse and you could be pleasantly surprised. Or not.

For new developments there are drawings and plans of course. Obviously if it’s a new built and you select your own architect and developer, it’s a different story and you can choose your own materials and strict building standards. But very often it’s the execution that goes wrong. And will you be on site every day?

I might have said this before: I have used a friend and contact from Europe who is certified in electrics / plumbing / building and heaters (naturally not so relevant here) and a teacher at a technical high school. Had him come over for a paid vacation and check the execution towards the plans, do some testing on the grounding and electrical installation, check the plumbing, etc. etc.

 

[jstar]

Obviously the technical plan needs to be part of the IMB submission. Which is -since two years- called PBG.

There is a technical appraisal team from the government that checks during the application phase if the architectural, structural, mechanical, electrical and plumbing plans meet the technical standards.

That is the theory.

 

[jstar]

For more info:

SIMBG

simbg.pu.go.id

It‘s quite interesting to read about the SLF for instance. Nobody here knows about that (renewal), I’ve never seen it done either.

Have any of you had inspectors check the property during construction? Is a house inspection common practice in Indonesia

SIMBG

simbg.pu.go.id

Loot at job description of Inspector (Penilik). Never met the guy/gal.

.

 

[centurion]

I've been looking through the posts here regarding the construction of housing and related issues, (some great suggestions and tips ), but I haven't yet seen any comments re: sets of architectural/engineering drawings and inspections.

Is it normal practice in Indo to be given access to a set of drawings before purchasing a property?

Have any of you requested/demanded that a clause be included in ownership/sales documents which declares that national building standards (Standar Nasional Indonesia) have been met?

Have any of you had inspectors check the property during construction? Is a house inspection common practice in Indonesia, or is it only something done to satisfy a bank if applying for loan(s)?

FYI: My concern is about the safety of two-story homes using single masonry brick walls and lightweight rebar.

makasih banyak

You can ask to everything be done by SNI, or above, and it can be done with a good contractor. That goes with the price, of course, and expect much higher costs.

It is advisable to have a supervising person from your side.

 

[Samoerai]

You can ask to everything be done by SNI, or above, and it can be done with a good contractor. That goes with the price, of course, and expect much higher costs.

It is advisable to have a supervising person from your side.

You mean a 'mandor'?

 

[jstar]

A foreman is -as daily supervisor- working for the developer/builder/contractor.

 

[centurion]

You mean a 'mandor'?

Building supervising person out of the contractor and mandors that checks in your name what the contractor or workers are doing.

 

[serious_fun]

Thanks for all of the replies. We're looking at a number of new structures within various 'Kompleks rumah minimalis' where, as you know, the construction is similar to this video . I assume that the developer of the kompleks would have the approval of local authorities when applying for the work.

BUT: it's the structural integrity of the rebar that still worries me. Not being an engineer, the act of casting the concrete on site (versus using precast reinforced concrete or steel beams) seems to be much less sound...but, as I wrote, I'm not an engineer.

Thanks again - if/when I learn anything from these developers I'll post the information to this thread.

 

[Pak Tani]

I think it is safe to assume that the developer of the perumahan has his papers in order, although you'd better make sure.
Is it a type of perumahan with fixed building types or do they give you the freedom to build whatever you like? If they have set building types, do they allow you 'minor' changes like kitchen layout, electrical wiring, choose your own tiles, etc? Depending on what direction your house faces, you may want to pay attention to the window placement and the roofing to prevent the sun from turning your bedroom into an oven. Is there any chance of banjir? A nearby mosque?

If the developer has developed any previous complexes, I would go there and look around. Have a good look at the state of the buildings (any crooked walls/roofs, visible leaks/water damage on the outer walls ceilings, cracks in the walls, how is the paint holding? etc.) Have a chat with the people who live there and ask if they are satisfied with their houses.
Does the developer give you any warranty, what if you run into problems after several months? And, what is he charging you per square meter? He must have detailed drawings of the building (necessary for the building permit) with all the dimensions and types of materials used. You could show these drawings to someone who can tell you if the price is alright, and get a second opinion.

I don't think you need to worry about the structural integrity of the rebar-reinforced concrete that they cast on site. As long as they build according to SNI specs, this should provide enough strength to withstand the forces that act upon it. This means they use the correct size of the rebar, the right amount of them in each beam and the dimensions of the concrete beams and columns. When they mix the concrete, they use proper sand, the right amount of semen, water, and gravel.

But when in doubt and you have a little extra to spend, just discuss it with your architect and ask him to use larger rebars, and design stronger columns and beams.
Good luck!

 

[Samoerai]

the construction is similar to this video

I am not an engineer, but that kind of shallow foundation and footing is only suitable for sand soil. I know this, because in the Netherlands millions of houses built on peat soil are at risk because of the groundwater sinks and the wooden foundation piles rot away. Only those houses build on sand soil in The Netherlands are safe. Ask an soil engineer for more advice.

 

[centurion]

Thanks for all of the replies. We're looking at a number of new structures within various 'Kompleks rumah minimalis' where, as you know, the construction is similar to this video . I assume that the developer of the kompleks would have the approval of local authorities when applying for the work.

BUT: it's the structural integrity of the rebar that still worries me. Not being an engineer, the act of casting the concrete on site (versus using precast reinforced concrete or steel beams) seems to be much less sound...but, as I wrote, I'm not an engineer.

Thanks again - if/when I learn anything from these developers I'll post the information to this thread.

The developer usually would have all papers in order, however, in reality, many cutting corners are applied, even with reputable developers (saw by myself):

-steel bellow specification (8 or 9mm instead of 10mm or 12mm) for walls/columns/foundations, windows/doors often executed without lintel beam above.
-dirty/salty sand, giving mediocre strength of cement and mortar
-thin walls (concrete or tiles), max 10cm+plaster
-too much water in the mortar, to make easier smooth edges, resulting in cracks after 6 months
-electrical installations executed out of standard, no ground done, copper in cables from inferior recycled copper alloys(resulting in lower Amperes/mm2 than specified).
-sewage pipes executed without siphons, resulting in a smell in the house from the septic tank.
-windows/doors from inferior wood, resulting in termite attacks


This all results in low structural integrity and low quality of finished building and that is the norm.

 

[Samoerai]

The developer usually would have all papers in order, however, in reality, many cutting corners are applied, even with reputable developers (saw by myself):

-steel bellow specification (8 or 9mm instead of 10mm or 12mm) for walls/columns/foundations, windows/doors often executed without lintel beam above.
-dirty/salty sand, giving mediocre strength of cement and mortar
-thin walls (concrete or tiles), max 10cm+plaster
-too much water in the mortar, to make easier smooth edges, resulting in cracks after 6 months
-electrical installations executed out of standard, no ground done, copper in cables from inferior recycled copper alloys(resulting in lower Amperes/mm2 than specified).
-sewage pipes executed without siphons, resulting in a smell in the house from the septic tank.
-windows/doors from inferior wood, resulting in termite attacks


This all results in low structural integrity and low quality of finished building and that is the norm.

All true, what I have seen and experienced.

 

[jstar]

the construction is similar to this video

That’s a bit a dime in a dozen; all project houses here are like that.

And then; ultra thin single bata walls, cracks, water seeping in, inferior materials,, leaking, smelly sinks, etc. etc.

You need to adjust your expectations if you go for a project house from Sedayu, Sinar Mas, Giantara or Summarecon or so. It will look beautiful at first and then you find out it’s not that great. But even if you choose a developer for a custom designed and made house, you will encounter many issues.

But hey, on the foundation, it could be worse..

 

[Samoerai]

To be fair .. contractors of perumahan also drill down piles for the foundation.

 

[jstar]

Yeah, esp. if they’re big houses with three floors or more. And if they were flooding areas before.

The concept here is very simple; concrete pillars and fill up the space in between with a single layer of brick.

 

[Samoerai]

Yeah, esp. if they’re big houses with three floors or more. And if they were flooding areas before.

The concept here is very simple; concrete pillars and fill up the space in between with a single layer of brick.

Or sawah's before.

 

[Pak Tani]

I am not an engineer, but that kind of shallow foundation and footing is only suitable for sand soil. I know this, because in the Netherlands millions of houses built on peat soil are at risk because of the groundwater sinks and the wooden foundation piles rot away. Only those houses build on sand soil in The Netherlands are safe. Ask an soil engineer for more advice.

There are no measurements mentioned in the video, but from the way it is portrayed it does seem somewhat shallow, yes. Besides that, i think it is an interesting video for people who want to acquint themselves with building their own house.
I quite like the design; it's not easy to build something nice of around 6x8m on a rather small plot of land.
High ceilings and a void/2nd floor where the warmer air will flow to with enough angin² (ventilation holes) to ensure good air flow. The higher walls have extra beams imbedded for structural integrity and the footplates in the back of the house allow an extra room on the 2nd floor. No lack of rebars in the concrete cast beams, columns and plates. In my area I doubt many developers will meet these standards.
The talang dalam (gutter) is bound to give one a headache, probably sooner than later. But that's the trade off you have to make in designs like these.

 

[jstar]

When a roof has an overhang a gutter is often not deemed necessary. Which is forbidden in most western countries. If (big if) the houses have a talang here, it is done the way of in the video; a tub-like integrated area which is made from cement or concrete. Of course it looks rather good. You will practically not find external gutters, they are available in PVC but no way you can get them in zinc or copper. The plastic versions always parish after some time, the harsh sun is a killer, just like for plastic garden furniture. The problem with the integrated versions in semen is they always start leaking, concrete obviously is better but more difficult to apply. Then the water gets through the cracks, under the roof and will flow through the gypsum ceilings where you don’t expect it, sometimes even two floors down. So then they treat the gutter area with Aquaplan or so (the rubber-like compound) and three years later the leaking starts again.

 

[Samoerai]

The plastic versions always parish after some time, the harsh sun is a killer, just like for plastic garden furniture. The problem with the integrated versions in semen is they always start leakin

Do you mean plastic gutters integrated in the walls start leaking after awhile? Or the the gutters directly made in the mortar/cement? In The Nerherland nowadays they build / intergrate the gutter pipes also in the walls. Drama.