Hot Subject 2016 Sept - Tax Amnesty

[jstar]

For some of the ASEAN countries including Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, there is no need for ASEAN to compel them - they have already agreed to reporting under the global CRS program

Can you elaborate on this? I thought that was about bank accounts only? So not properties and other investments, etc.

I also had read somewhere Singapore had not signed yet?

 

[Davita]

For some of the ASEAN countries including Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, there is no need for ASEAN to compel them - they have already agreed to reporting under the global CRS program

Thanks BAJ...that's what I was referring to in my post #138. It is the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) but, as I submitted, doesn't go into effect until 2018.....

Wiki....Starting to report in 2018: Albania, Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Australia, Austria, The Bahamas, Belize, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, China, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Ghana, Grenada, Hong Kong (China), Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Marshall Islands, Macao (China), Malaysia, Mauritius, Monaco, Nauru, New Zealand, Qatar, Russia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Samoa, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Saint Maarten, Switzerland, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Vanuatu

 

[jstar]

Ha. Something like that will not be implemented in your lifetime David. In the EU, it took many years and it's not even fully operational. (Only that the tax guys can get the info when they require it. They should have reasons or suspicions. Now it is being replaced by standard reporting.) Can you imagine what it means to adopt and use a common reporting format, deal with law suits about privacy, etc. etc.?

 

[Davita]

Ha. Something like that will not be implemented in your lifetime David. In the EU, it took many years and it's not even fully operational. (Only that the tax guys can get the info when they require it. They should have reasons or suspicions. Now it is being replaced by standard reporting.) Can you imagine what it means to find a common reporting format, deal with law suits about privacy, etc. etc.?

I would agree that it may be a while before implementation is effective but I know the FATCA system works. Every investment I own (Bonds, Mutual Equities, Managed Funds and Bank Accounts) required me to declare I am/not a USA Citizen.

I believe this is because, when I used to live in Arizona over 15 years ago, I had to file for an IRS Income Tax Identifier No. (ITIN)...but I haven't lived in the USA in over 5 years nor have any property, bank accounts nor income.

BTW...please don't be so cavalier identifying things that wont happen in my lifetime...I'm a little bit sensitive about that ........:lol:

 

[jstar]

That's why I did it. And as a virile colt I could hardly take my own expected lifetime now, could I?!

Of course FATCA is a very special animal. Requiring individual financial institutions worldwide to report on the own citizens to the IRS, does make the US customer not so popular anymore in countries as Singapore; it's a big burden.

And the US will not participate in that reporting system. Can you imagine, providing financial information on their own citizens on their own banks to foreign tax authorities? Wkwkwk.

I have a SSN but I'm only required to report on US stocks etc. W-203 in a special version.

 

[Davita]

That's why I did it. And as a virile colt I could hardly take my own expected lifetime now, could I?!

Of course FATCA is a very special animal. Requiring individual financial institutions worldwide to report on the own citizens to the IRS, does make the US customer not so popular anymore in countries as Singapore; it's a big burden.

And the US will not participate in that reporting system. Can you imagine, providing financial information on their own citizens on their own banks to foreign tax authorities? Wkwkwk.

I have a SSN but I'm only required to report on US stocks etc. W-203 in a special version.

If you are a USA citizen isn't it required to file for annual tax to the IRS...no matter where you reside?

 

[jstar]

Yes, but I'm not a citizen and only have 'certain income' there....social security number makes the reporting a bit different from those who never lived there.

 

[Davita]

Yes, but I'm not a citizen and only have 'certain income' there....social security number makes the reporting a bit different from those who never lived there.

If not a citizen don't you need to be employed to get an SSN...that's what I was told and, as retired, got an ITIN. I still paid capital gains tax when I sold the house I owned in AZ.

 

[jstar]

You're right.

 

[jukung11]

If you have a green card (permanent resident visa), all laws and requirements of taxes and fatca (and almost all other U.S. laws) apply regardless of living in the United States. This is a mistake that I get a lot of work out of. I am surprised how many people deliberately subject themselves to the international jurisdiction of the U.S. for the ability to get on a plane and go the U.S. because the rule of law and political stability of so many countries does not compare to the U.S.

I believe a green card is good for 10 years? I can see why they are asking you to fill out forms.

The U.S. government will also issue Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITIN) to beneficiaries of direct family members of U.S. citizens. FATCA can apply in these situations too.

 

[Davita]

If you have a green card (permanent resident visa), all laws and requirements of taxes and fatca (and almost all other U.S. laws) apply regardless of living in the United States. This is a mistake that I get a lot of work out of. I am surprised how many people deliberately subject themselves to the international jurisdiction of the U.S. for the ability to get on a plane and go the U.S. because the rule of law and political stability of so many countries does not compare to the U.S.

I believe a green card is good for 10 years? I can see why they are asking you to fill out forms.


The U.S. government will also issue Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITIN) to beneficiaries of direct family members of U.S. citizens. FATCA can apply in these situations too.

Thanks for that info..
In my case I didn't even have a green card. I'm a Canadian who spent more than the aggregate time in USA to be liable to file 1040NR.

I'm not sure that previously having an ITIN is why I was asked to declare my non-USA citizenship to FATCA...it was my assumption.

My original point was to compare FATCA to CRS....and how FATCA does access individuals it seeks.

 

[mauricio]

I though tax amnesty is voluntary, a person with the initial RS is taken hostage (gijzeling) to force him to join the tax amnesty… “Penyanderaan menjadi alat agar wajib pajak bersedia ikut program pengampunan pajak yang berakhir 31 Maret 2017 ini”, second paragraph http://nasional.kontan.co.id/news/diperiksa-disandera-lalu-diampuni

Less than four months ago, the Finance Minister said that they will not use intimidation, violence, fear… fifth paragraph http://kabarindo.site/bisnis/read/2...lyani-janji-tak-akan-menakut-nakuti-pengusaha

 

[jstar]

Hmm, he did not pay his taxes and had a large overdue amount (the 1.8). So they 'offer' him the tax amnesty program (to get everything out in the open and to formalize). That's a bit different from forcing someone with no history of dirty money to participate.

 

[mauricio]

Hmm, he did not pay his taxes and had a large overdue amount (the 1.8). So they 'offer' him the tax amnesty program (to get everything out in the open and to formalize). That's a bit different from forcing someone with no history of dirty money to participate.

Taken hostage for not paying his overdue taxes is one thing, taken hostage until he participates in the tax amnesty program is another thing. Yes, he may have evaded taxes or did have dirty money. So he may be a special case (but I wonder if there are other special cases out there not reported in the newspaper). According to the same news source (Kontan, fourth paragraph), he already paid the 1.8 but will not be released until his tax amnesty is approved (i.e. received his ‘Surat Pengampunan Pajak’). I think he should be released after paying his overdue taxes, and not forced to participate in the tax amnesty. After all, he can be audited whether or not he get the tax amnesty.

By the way, not ALL tax evaders are intentionally evading taxes, or their undeclared assets are obtained with dirty money. Some just made one or two honest mistakes in accounting or book-keeping, some have different point-of-view or opinion (between the tax payer and tax officials), some are simply victims of extortion (believe it or not).

 

[jstar]

Living in Indonesia, I find your last paragraph rather funny.

 

[mauricio]

Living in Indonesia, I find your last paragraph rather funny.

Hehehe... can you elaborate why it is funny?

 

[waarmstrong]

Its like being accidentally pregnant. Funny, no?

 

[Smallworld]

So is the tax amnesty going to work as the gov planned if there is corruption in tax office? If the government cannot clean up corruption in the government bodies like police, military, politics, taxation ect. how do they expect an ordinary tax payer to pay all the required taxes? This is why there is not that much trust between tax payers and government leading to avoid to pay little or none tax.

He said bribery occurs when taxpayers are burdened with high tariffs. They might also become tax evaders or seek loopholes in the system.

....
BTW This is the progress so far.

The tax consultancy firm estimates that full-year tax collection will reach at least Rp 1,148.8 trillion in 2016, about 85 percent of the government target.

http://jakartaglobe.id/business/taxmans-bribery-a-blow-to-the-hard-earned-trust/

 

[jstar]

Not really the progress, that is the estimate. In reality the amount is much lower.

Of course the flight/outflow of capital mainly occurs when the local taxes are deemed too high. (Cf. Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein) I also don't agree at all with Singapore being a so called tax haven. 17-20% and no capital gains? Pff, many countries can counter that, even Indonesia. So I wonder how many people move(d) their capital from Singapore to another country (also outside of RI).

 

[mauricio]

Taken hostage for not paying his overdue taxes is one thing, taken hostage until he participates in the tax amnesty program is another thing. Yes, he may have evaded taxes or did have dirty money. So he may be a special case (but I wonder if there are other special cases out there not reported in the newspaper). According to the same news source (Kontan, fourth paragraph), he already paid the 1.8 but will not be released until his tax amnesty is approved (i.e. received his ‘Surat Pengampunan Pajak’). I think he should be released after paying his overdue taxes, and not forced to participate in the tax amnesty. After all, he can be audited whether or not he get the tax amnesty.

By the way, not ALL tax evaders are intentionally evading taxes, or their undeclared assets are obtained with dirty money. Some just made one or two honest mistakes in accounting or book-keeping, some have different point-of-view or opinion (between the tax payer and tax officials), some are simply victims of extortion (believe it or not).

An Indian expat was arrested this week for bribing a tax official. He is now disclosing that he was a victim of extortion http://ramadhan.inilah.com/read/detail/2341406/rajesh-mengaku-diperas-oleh-oknum-petinggi-pajak