Have I made a mistake?

[Felicity]

You sound like a sex tourist. Maybe she was just another fling, and if she knew this I am sure she would move on easily. What makes it uneasy because you have built false hope to her mind about the future. And she eagers to reach that.

 

[ScottyBoy]

Glad you made it home safe and sound, with no relationship. As you know depending on what you want in a relationship, a person needs to go in with their eyes open. If you want a lifetime commitment then both people need to be prepared for this, to have a "healthy" relatively stable relationship.

Thanks Daniel. Yes, I agree with you. I said it to her, a relationship has to be built on a solid foundation if you want it to last. But she seemed to want to just gloss over the cracks, which raised further suspicion.

You sound like a sex tourist. Maybe she was just another fling, and if she knew this I am sure she would move on easily. What makes it uneasy because you have built false hope to her mind about the future. And she eagers to reach that.

Definitely not a set tourist. Just a young single guy out on holiday and having a good time when the opportunity literally came over and grabbed me by the arm. (The only time I instigated things was with this girl in Hong Kong.) She was not another fling, maybe the first night but if that's all it was I wouldn't have even asked for her number. It felt different with her, we had more of a connection and spent a good part of the night just talking. That's why I let it get more serious. I don't think I was giving her false hope as I meant what I said to her. The only thing that stopped me continuing it was the doubts that came from her words and actions, and the agreement of everyone else on here that she was just using me. I was eager for the idea of the future she gave me too but it seems the general opinion by an overwhelming majority is that this was a lie. I was nothing other than honest with her at every stage but it seems like she fed me a whole pack of lies. I don't really see how she is the victim in this case. When I broke things off I was as nice as possible about it to stop her from getting hurt, on the slight chance that she was sincere and genuine, although it f has been made pretty clear on here that I am deluding myself with that hope.

 

[ScottyBoy]

A story so often repeated, with often sad endings. I know this link may not assist now, but I think it is compulsory reading for any male visitors to Sth East Asia. http://nordbo.me/private-dancer/a

Hope all ends well Scotty

Sorry Colroe, just realised I didn't respond to your post. I was interested to read the link but it redirects to a different page which I think may not be the intended one. Thanks for your good wishes, much appreciated!

Edit: I got the link to work and have downloaded the book. It sounds very interesting from the review of it. Looking forward to reading it, thanks!

I also found the life of Suzie Wong online so will probably watch that tonight when I get home.


I still find myself occasionally questioning my decision, especially since her contacting my sister yesterday. It could just as easily be a tactic because she is not ready to give up on her "mark/target" or it could be that she really does care. Whether that is about losing me or losing a meal ticket isn't clear but it's go t me thinking again.

Maybe for balance I should put up a list of the things she said or did which would point to her being genuine. I realise the first post was mostly a list of the negative points, so may have left people with a biased or skewed view. Although it seems that information alone was enough for a lot of people to be certain based upon their own knowledge and understanding of these things, so perhaps I would just be wasting my time and torturing myself even more by doing this.

 

[Felicity]

Even sometimes when two people are about to get married after years together, the doubt will still strike them for whatever reason. It is always there and you might not give time or chance and decided to shut down everything all of sudden.

 

[ScottyBoy]

Even sometimes when two people are about to get married after years together, the doubt will still strike them for whatever reason. It is always there and you might not give time or chance and decided to shut down everything all of sudden.

Well the doubt was always there but I chose to ignore it and hope for the best. But it became too much and I ended up on here (after getting some advice from someone on the old forum who has a lot of knowledge of this area who was talking a lot of sense). I tend to always look for the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. My niceness is sometimes taken for stupidity or weakness and some people like to try and take advantage of that. The doubts in this situation though were pretty serious and weren't something I could build a marriage on. I gave it time to see if the doubts went away or could be proven wrong but although I wanted to believe the good in her, more reasons to doubt her came along and I realised I had a serious decision to make. I think it should be pretty clear that this isn't a decision I took lightly.

You seem to have changed your tune a bit since your first response. Your first few messages actually helped me feel that I had made the right decision. You later admitted you had already forgotten some of the details: "Now I do not really remember the real issue of your relationship with her that cause to end". Now you seem to be making out that I'm the bad guy and she's the victim. Maybe if you remembered the details your attitude toward me would be different. If your point of view was consistent or not based on incorrect assumptions, I would give it more consideration. I am open minded enough to consider the fact that she may have been genuine, which is why I am on here and still torturing myself about this decision. But I was the only one who seemed to think/want to believe that there was a chance she wasn't just playing me.

 

[sumyunggai]

You sound like a sex tourist. Maybe she was just another fling, and if she knew this I am sure she would move on easily. What makes it uneasy because you have built false hope to her mind about the future. And she eagers to reach that.

Haha.

No.

This girl is a pro and she is probably doing this to other men at the same time.

Indonesia doesn't really have the situation like in the West where a woman is equal to a man and can have sex with different people and gets drunk, but then gets married and is a faithful wife. In Indonesia both men and women understand very clearly that such behaviour makes that women a whore (literally and figuratively). So there really isn't any ambiguity here.

 

[waarmstrong]

Haha.

No.

This girl is a pro and she is probably doing this to other men at the same time.

Indonesia doesn't really have the situation like in the West where a woman is equal to a man and can have sex with different people and gets drunk, but then gets married and is a faithful wife. In Indonesia both men and women understand very clearly that such behaviour makes that women a whore (literally and figuratively). So there really isn't any ambiguity here.

That sort of justification does put you all that high on your adopted caste system, either. Again, no ambiguity.

 

[Daniel50]

Maybe for balance I should put up a list of the things she said or did which would point to her being genuine. I realise the first post was mostly a list of the negative points, so may have left people with a biased or skewed view. Although it seems that information alone was enough for a lot of people to be certain based upon their own knowledge and understanding of these things, so perhaps I would just be wasting my time and torturing myself even more by doing this.

Keep moving forward and let go. Trust the information presented, as well as your intuition. Quit trying to create something which does not exist. It was brief and intense. There is a part of a person that can be compelled toward this but it tends to not work out well. You need someone more stable. The main rule to remember is: you can not change others but you can spend a lifetime of frustration, hurt and anger trying. ( Again you can not change others but you can use fantasy to repeatedly try to make things into something they are not, let go).

 

[fastpitch17]

Haha.

No.

This girl is a pro and she is probably doing this to other men at the same time.

Indonesia doesn't really have the situation like in the West where a woman is equal to a man and can have sex with different people and gets drunk, but then gets married and is a faithful wife. In Indonesia both men and women understand very clearly that such behaviour makes that women a whore (literally and figuratively). So there really isn't any ambiguity here.

And the boys are just good boys?
Someone else that seems lost in a very old system it seems. Who are you to have any right to judge a Woman on a societal measure? I would never think of a Woman who has had some experience as a whore? Far from it. Liberated, thinks for herself, know what she wants and is best for her would be more like it.

 

[Euc-]

And the boys are just good boys?
Someone else that seems lost in a very old system it seems. Who are you to have any right to judge a Woman on a societal measure? I would never think of a Woman who has had some experience as a whore? Far from it. Liberated, thinks for herself, know what she wants and is best for her would be more like it.

I don't think that he in particular thinks that way, but is referring to a large portion of the Indonesian population who think that way.

 

[fastpitch17]

I don't think that he in particular thinks that way, but is referring to a large portion of the Indonesian population who think that way.

Then he should be clear on his statements.

 

[Ruserious]

I don't think that he in particular thinks that way, but is referring to a large portion of the Indonesian population who think that way.

If that was the case then he would say that Indonesians "think" that way. Instead he said that they "understand" that this is what it means. Sorry but he seems to very much support that view and I agree with the other posts that he is taking a very outdated position. Is the implication that only a virgin wife can be faithfull?

That being said I believe in the OP's case that the situation is bad news, way over the line and time to run

 

[William King]

OP, my lord, there are a 1,000,000 OP's EXACTLY the same as that. It's actually really boring to read.

All the best.

oh yeah, and run.

 

[sumyunggai]

If that was the case then he would say that Indonesians "think" that way. Instead he said that they "understand" that this is what it means. Sorry but he seems to very much support that view and I agree with the other posts that he is taking a very outdated position. Is the implication that only a virgin wife can be faithfull?

Not so much a virgin wife, but when you marry someone who society would perceive to be a prostitute, the chances are not good that she will stop being one.

 

[fastpitch17]

Not so much a virgin wife, but when you marry someone who society would perceive to be a prostitute, the chances are not good that she will stop being one.

So, are you saying that if a Woman had more then one sexual experience before marriage and that if society deems that a negative for her, she has to follow what society tells her? In your argument, all of us married to Indonesian Women who may have had some experience with others before we were married are condemned to be what you consider a whore because you think that and that there is no way they could be faithful to us because society says they won't. That we should immediately confront our wives because, well, you say they are whores and are unfaithful to us even though you know none of them and in all likelihood, neither does society.

Sorry, but the way you think and accuse others makes you a complete ass.

 

[sumyunggai]

So, are you saying that if a Woman had more then one sexual experience before marriage and that if society deems that a negative for her, she has to follow what society tells her? In your argument, all of us married to Indonesian Women who may have had some experience with others before we were married are condemned to be what you consider a whore because you think that and that there is no way they could be faithful to us because society says they won't. That we should immediately confront our wives because, well, you say they are whores and are unfaithful to us even though you know none of them and in all likelihood, neither does society.

Sorry, but the way you think and accuse others makes you a complete ass.

I'm not accusing anyone, just pointing out that both men and women are taught that in Indonesia this is the case. Of course people can be escape society's expectations of them, I just wouldn't count on it.

 

[Felicity]

You seem to have changed your tune a bit since your first response. Your first few messages actually helped me feel that I had made the right decision. You later admitted you had already forgotten some of the details: "Now I do not really remember the real issue of your relationship with her that cause to end". Now you seem to be making out that I'm the bad guy and she's the victim. Maybe if you remembered the details your attitude toward me would be different. If your point of view was consistent or not based on incorrect assumptions, I would give it more consideration. I am open minded enough to consider the fact that she may have been genuine, which is why I am on here and still torturing myself about this decision. But I was the only one who seemed to think/want to believe that there was a chance she wasn't just playing me.

I made some points about not respecting her choice working as sex worker which put a big doubt in you, and the fact that she gave you requirements with a certain amount of money bullshit for further relationship which put pressure on you, not to mention circumcision thing which humbug - unless they check it before you convert. But if you have communicated what you thought about and it worked with her, I think it is wrong to shut down all communication. If she was still upset and thought it was mandatory requirements, leaving is the best choice.

Indonesia doesn't really have the situation like in the West where a woman is equal to a man and can have sex with different people and gets drunk, but then gets married and is a faithful wife. In Indonesia both men and women understand very clearly that such behaviour makes that women a whore (literally and figuratively). So there really isn't any ambiguity here.

Women do exchange sexual/virginity for something else like commitment, monetary stuff,etc from men. If that makes women as whore, what men would be?
Do some reading please Social Exchange Theory Applied to Romantic Relationships
Or at least back up your argument with scientific data.
And are you sure those westerners women are faithful? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they're just better at lying about it
And the samples are westerners women (no intention to generalise, however)

 

[Daniel50]

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/psych/intimate-relationships/ch/03/summary.aspx

Keep the door shut. Keep moving forward. There are different "theories" and also plenty of practical experiences. Some of it was shared by practical scholars, schooled in relationships.

 

[fastpitch17]

I'm not accusing anyone, just pointing out that both men and women are taught that in Indonesia this is the case. Of course people can be escape society's expectations of them, I just wouldn't count on it.

Still you are set on the notion that just because a lady was a popular girl she will in all likelihood remain popular with those besides her husband. That's still bull shit.

Not so much a virgin wife, but when you marry someone who society would perceive to be a prostitute, the chances are not good that she will stop being one

Escape societies expectations is a different statement then saying society says they are whores so they will be cheaters. You must live in some isolated corner of your uneducated mind. Maybe Indonesia frowns on girls that are not virgins. I guess some regional education departments, the military, and police to name a few but society is changing I believe in the search for a virgin to marry. There are a lot of Women that don't think too highly of that male dominated rule any longer. They are smart, they know that males out number the females and so there are many hard up males out there. But, just because she isn't a virgin and has had relations prior to marriage would never mean she would cheat on her husband. Girls that have had some experience can be just as committed to her husband as anyone else. I think more so. That new virgin bride might think wow, what have I been missing and makes up for lost time with other outside her marriage. Frankly, being a virgin at marriage or not has no difference on who faithful a wife will be in the marriage. If Indonesia was so against these girls being active they would have eliminated the short term marriages and the second, third, fourth wife crap that happens here with so many of the first, second, third wives being cast aside, now a used women because of religion. You shouldn't blame a girl for premarital activities when the religion allows them to be used, abused, and cast aside.

Oh, and by the way. Besides a physical examination the female can proclaim virginity and fake it really well if they so desire. It's really easy, ask your wife how they can do it. I'm sure she would understand the female mind much better then you.

 

[Felicity]

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/psych/intimate-relationships/ch/03/summary.aspx

Keep the door shut. Keep moving forward. There are different "theories" and also plenty of practical experiences. Some of it was shared by practical scholars, schooled in relationships.

At least someone do reading reliable and valid information. You did read it all didn't you? Lol