HAPAs

[sumyunggai]

Some interesting points here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hapas/comments/58rwna/read_before_posting_the_2017_eurasian_half_asian/

HAPA = half Asian, half white, with particular focus on the issues:

(a) the overwhelming majority of Asian/white relationships where the woman is Asian, the man white

(b) related to the above, the tendency of 'loser' (ugly/fat/unsuccessful), often racist, white men to seek out Asian females

(c) fethisization of Asian women as better concepts of femininity ('they are petite', 'they are docile/do what you tell them') by the men

(d) a similar concept of Asian women preferring white men

(e) children with confused identity, often just appearing 'Asian', and not 'white', with this presenting significant problems for male children with both parents potentially preferring a white identity for boys Asian for girls, e.g., https://halfasianhalfdead.wordpress...urasian-children-from-your-eurasian-daughter/ Conversely children may try to present as exclusively white and reject their Asian identity.

 

[Puspawarna]

Not eveyone will be able to view that first link, since Reddit is blocked by some Indonesian ISPs (not mine). Here's a taste of what's there:

How many times have you seen Asian women paired up with white men in the media? How many times have you heard "Ew, Asian guys", from Asian women themselves? How many times have you seen Asian women refusing to defend against racism towards Asian men, which can be some of the worst in the world? How many times have you seen white men lust after Asian women but hate or make fun of Asian males? How many times have you heard Asian women talk about how handsome white males are while disregarding the long legacy of racism? Why is it that Asian women marry out of their race more than any other race on the planet? Why does it seem that Asian women tolerate extremely racist / negative behavior in their white partners? How come no other interracial pairing is so vitriolic or unbalanced? How come no other interracial pairing is so obsessed with biracial children?
Asian women are the only women on earth to favor men other than their own...

Methinks somebody has a bone to pick...(Not that there isn't a lot of truth to some of the characterizations, but if anyone lets it destroy their peace of mind, that's on the individual, not society.)

 

[sumyunggai]

A side issue, but I think Indonesian ISPs tend to merely redirect Reddit on the DNS level, it's not blocked as such. You can use an alternate DNS provider or add it to your hosts file. (IP is currently 151.101.113.140)

 

[Felicity]

I think this is a nice article to understand more about the phenomenon in the first place which strongly influenced by society. ​http://veskocholakov.com/en/blog/2450

I could not find data on point (b) and seems to be opposite with my observation.

Point (e) shows there is parenting style issue. Not necessarily about the mixed race the children owned. How old is she? The blog seems to be unreliable

 

[Minuteman]

My Son, now 15 years old, knows his American/Indonesian mix. He has no problem with this and is very aware of his nationality...a US Citizen. He is looking forward to graduating high school and going "home".

 

[Zavia]

On the other hand,
I've met a few asian friends(mostly girls) who went overseas and found out they arn't into white people (don't mind me generalizing colours here, sorry).
I believe theres a good balance of asian girls liking asian and non-asian guys. Some girls just have some perception of other cultures that may not be fully complete, thats all.

An interesting observations:
I've heard for the first time log ago, shockingly i might add cos i was in late teens then, my indian friends saying they don't want an indian bf. 10 years later in indonesia, it was dejavu. (Not a "I prefer xxx race", but a "I do not accept my race" declaration). I do not know what why such a thing happened, but it does kinda suck to hear someone say that of their own people.

 

[Tocean]

I've always wanted to ask a couple of my male Asian friends that married white girls if they actually wanted a relationship with difficult, disobedient, insubordinate, control freak white women that don't cook, clean and or do any house work what so ever.

 

[Daniel50]

Some interesting points here:

HAPA = with particular focus on the issues:

(b) related to the above, the tendency of 'loser' (ugly/fat/unsuccessful), often racist, white men to seek out Asian females

I can only speak for myself and the males I know some points: incredibly handsome, very high IQ, an even higher EQ (incredible really).

Does this happen to sound like any current President in waiting?

 

[Puspawarna]

I've always wanted to ask a couple of my male Asian friends that married white girls if they actually wanted a relationship with difficult, disobedient, insubordinate, control freak white women that don't cook, clean and or do any house work what so ever.

Oh, I think you should work up your courage and ask, preferably with the wife standing right there.

 

[Felicity]

Now I'm wondering what kind of Asian women who are with those 'losers' type kind of white men sumyunggui describe

 

[Tocean]

Oh, I think you should work up your courage and ask, preferably with the wife standing right there.

I would but, they might know karate.

Hopefully you realize I was making light of this white man/Asian fetish bullcarp

 

[Felicity]

I've always wanted to ask a couple of my male Asian friends that married white girls if they actually wanted a relationship with difficult, disobedient, insubordinate, control freak white women that don't cook, clean and or do any house work what so ever.

someone had traumatic relationship?

 

[Puspawarna]

Hopefully you realize I was making light of this white man/Asian fetish bullcarp

Honestly, I wasn't sure. So I thought that if I made a joke about it, you might come back and clarify matters a bit. (Imagine my relief now that you have.)

 

[Dan]

Some interesting points here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hapas/comments/58rwna/read_before_posting_the_2017_eurasian_half_asian/

HAPA = half Asian, half white, with particular focus on the issues:

(a) the overwhelming majority of Asian/white relationships where the woman is Asian, the man white

(b) related to the above, the tendency of 'loser' (ugly/fat/unsuccessful), often racist, white men to seek out Asian females

(c) fethisization of Asian women as better concepts of femininity ('they are petite', 'they are docile/do what you tell them') by the men

(d) a similar concept of Asian women preferring white men

(e) children with confused identity, often just appearing 'Asian', and not 'white', with this presenting significant problems for male children with both parents potentially preferring a white identity for boys Asian for girls, e.g., https://halfasianhalfdead.wordpress...urasian-children-from-your-eurasian-daughter/ Conversely children may try to present as exclusively white and reject their Asian identity.

I hear about (b) a great deal. There's two sides to this canard. The first is what was stated, that only "beta males" land an Asian woman because they're losers incapable of getting the "real prize" of a woman from their home country. However, by embracing this the authors are themselves expressing white supremacy by suggesting that Asian women are "trading up" to a beta male white man as a superior alternative to an Asian man.

(c) is mostly just something that annoys me coming from other men. I have had so many conversations with other men, of all sorts of backgrounds, talking about how and why they prefer Asian women, how they're extra hot. I have had to bring more than one guy down to earth about the "submissive" thing, because my wife has never been a doormat. My wife is the only Asian woman I've ever had a relationship with. I've never been a "rice queen." Excluding any group of women from your interest is fundamentally stupid, because there are hot women of every background.

(d) My personal theory as to why white men are seen as desirable largely has to do with height. We're significantly taller on average, and height is the most important determinant of a man's attractiveness. Short males are seen as unacceptable mates, while the taller a man is up to a point (freakishly tall men are also at a disadvantage) is seen as progressively more attractive.

 

[Tocean]

Honestly, I wasn't sure. So I thought that if I made a joke about it, you might come back and clarify matters a bit. (Imagine my relief now that you have.)

Sorry should of worded it different or put a little wink or nudge in thereguess the emoticons I used wasn't clear.

I was thinking of that other thread(maybe on the other forum) where the guy was spouting similar nonsense on how Asian women make better wives

 

[jukung11]

I have seen these tropes again and again over the years. Many of these are continued by people that believe everyone should stick to their own race and not intermix. There seems to be a lot of hate in that reddit. Well that is reddit generally.
I am not a fan of a lot of anecdotal evidence, but I will offer some of my own. Felicity posted a great article with a scientific approach.

First, I don't judge anyone on what they find sexually attractive. People want what they want. What turns on one person may not work for me and vice versa.

These are a few of my observations:

What some people frequently overlook is there are some cultural influences that push some Asian women to date outside of their own cultures that are not race based. I will point out a few that are specific to Indonesia and other Asian cultures in general.

Indonesian culture is not gender neutral. The women that are more likely to want to be seen equally will seek out men from different cultural backgrounds that put a greater value on that. I have met many women over the years that have expressed that interest. (maybe Dan's wife is one )

Asian cultures value virginity in general and Indonesia is obsessed with it. There seems to be a double standard with the genders that it is more reserved that a woman is "bad" for desiring sex. This has fallen out of favor with many western attitudes. Because of the gender standards this will push more sexually active women towards western partners. This includes women that are divorced or may have a child from another father.

Also the age at first marriage from cultures plays a role. The age of first marriage is far lower in Asian countries specifically Indonesia. Women past a certain age are considered unwanted or that something was wrong with them. They are considered undesirable life partners, while the age of first marriage is far higher in developed countries and also of little cultural concern.

Also, do not forget the economic interests. While it may not be a significant factor in sexual attraction, marriage is usually a choice. I read a study that ranked men and women on a scale from 1 to 5 based on income and education. The study was that men tended to marry from a economic class equal or below their own and women tended to marry from an economic class equal or above their own. From study, the most likely people to have difficulty finding a life partner were the category #1 women (high education and income) and the #5 men (low education and income).
From a purely personal observation with no scientific information, in the economic aspect, Western-Asian men don't tend to have difficulty finding marriage partners except by their view of the role of women.


So as the flip side, I tend not to see only the male as the less desirable one for western standards trope, but the female less desirable for Asian standards as women that are stronger willed, sexually independent, more educated, mid 20's and beyond, and more upwardly mobile will seek western (many times white) partners.


(E) This is a problem with all mixed race children. Asian features are very genetically dominant (darker skin, eyes, hair). Many physical traits become recessive the more northern the genetics go. There is simply a higher probability the children will have more Asian features. Every mixed race child has to deal with these issues on appearance. Regardless of Asian, Central American, or African.
The blog is a small snippit into a single woman's life with a racist parent. Very little to go on.

 

[sumyunggai]

I hear about (b) a great deal. There's two sides to this canard. The first is what was stated, that only "beta males" land an Asian woman because they're losers incapable of getting the "real prize" of a woman from their home country. However, by embracing this the authors are themselves expressing white supremacy by suggesting that Asian women are "trading up" to a beta male white man as a superior alternative to an Asian man.

It's not necessarily about trading up in terms of race, but financial. A beta Western male can provide (perhaps if only via the welfare state) for his Asian wife. The same is clearly not necessarily true of all Indonesian men.

 

[jukung11]

It's not necessarily about trading up in terms of race, but financial. A beta Western male can provide (perhaps if only via the welfare state) for his Asian wife. The same is clearly not necessarily true of all Indonesian men.

Not practical. Welfare states generally don't extend over borders. Most western countries have asset and income requirements to sponsor visas regardless of spousal status.

But if you look at the female preference of partnering with someone at equal or greater economic status, men from western countries would increase their likelyhood of finding a partner in Asian countries, while western women would decrease their likelyhood of finding a partner in Asian countries, skewing the partnering gender imbalance.


Has anyone looked into the breakdown if more western males are more likely to travel abroad?
Is there a gender breakdown of Indonesian foreign work permits?
I suspect there is an edge in male travel to Asian countries. I am familiar with the disproportionate amount of western male/Asian female relationships based on U.S. military deployments in many Asian countries.
With the heavy amount of work in the Coal and Oil sectors being a male dominated industry, I would be interest to see if the work permits also skew male in Indonesia.
The simple factor of unequal representations in gender and work could lead to skewed numbers in the intermixing of couples from racial backgrounds.

 

[Puspawarna]

Has anyone looked into the breakdown if more western males are more likely to travel abroad?
Is there a gender breakdown of Indonesian foreign work permits?
I suspect there is an edge in male travel to Asian countries.

I hate to say it, but I think there is a lot more going on than the simple fact that a disproportionate number of foreigners are men, thus making foreign-man-Indonesian-woman marriages more likely. I lived in Egypt for a while, and the gender distribution of foreign workers was probably no different than in Indonesia. Yet there, most of the intercultural marriages consisted of an Egyptian man and a foreign woman.

 

[Daniel50]

There are many reasons and not all will fit inside any box we may construct. For some I am sure part of it can be financial, for others it could be mainly financial. Some still have some deeply embedded ideas about race and culture. It can be a mix of all of these. We are not really one dimensional. Why do some "Western" women try to get a guy with the most resources? How can Mick Jagger find someone to father his child at age 78? What made Hugh Hefner so "attractive" to a 26 year old? These are more extreme but most people tend to look for the best deal they can get. This means different things to different people. Not all Westerners marrying Asian women are losers but there are some who are abusive and controlling. There are many people like this in Western, and Asian, societies as well. In this there are a variety of shades of people, backgrounds and preferences. I would try not to look down on someone trying for a better life. The better life can also go both ways. There are families established and life long bonds formed. There are also catastrophes both here and in the West.