Electric Motor Scooters - Are they the future trend?

[jstar]

Which parts are we talking about Harry? A new electro motor?

That’s one of the advantages of electric vehicles btw, the lack of complexity and parts (turbo, timing belt, piston rings, valves, oil, …) to be able to break down or needing maintenance. And the rest (suspension, brakes, …) is all the same anyway.

That Outback or yearly wintersport or south of France argument is also getting somewhat old; in western countries people drive on average 2x 30 km per day. That’s to work. In the worst case scenario you could rent or share a car for special occasions. It’s a paradigm shift.

 

[Balifrog]

to save our planet Now!

Can we stop this "save the planet" B.S. please.
The planet managed since millions of years. Remember the ice age ? The extinction of the dynosaures, the Sahara was green, etc ...?
The planet always survived.
Humans is less sure !

 

[harryopal1]

Which parts are we talking about Harry? A new electro motor?

That’s one of the advantages of electric vehicles btw, the lack of complexity and parts (turbo, timing belt, piston rings, valves, oil, …) to be able to break down or needing maintenance. And the rest (suspension, brakes, …) is all the same anyway.

That Outback or yearly wintersport or south of France argument is also getting somewhat old; in western countries people drive on average 2x 30 km per day. That’s to work. In the worst case scenario you could rent or share a car for special occasions. It’s a paradigm shift.

Basically I mean any parts and then finding someone who is familiar with this new technology. Maybe I am at Warburton in the central desert and then what????

 

[jstar]

Basically I mean any parts and then finding someone who is familiar with this new technology. Maybe I am at Warburton in the central desert and then what????

Not that new though; didn’t Faraday invent the electric engine 200 years ago or so?

Anyway, my point is simple; something which is not there, can not break. If you think about it; an ICE (internal combustion engine) is a complex and rather difficult to maintain piece of technology.

 

[Hawk256]

Yes it is unfortunate that solar panels are still quite expensive, ut they do last many years, enough and more to cover the cost. The small solar night light you mentioned is not built to be efficient. It is too small, to work properly. In my opinion, the governments should subsidize solar energy instead of at the moment, fossil fuels. New research should be promoted and subsidized, to develop cleaner and more efficient batteries.
Everyone knows that the use of burning fossil fuels, is over polluting our Planet. It is imperative that all countries need to create and use cleaner sources of power, to save our planet Now!

You don't see all these poisonous batteries as a threat to the environment? They aren't exactly clean to make and even worse to dispose of. You can say they are recycled but we all know the truth about recycling. It's not how it was promised. How is solar with battereies any cleaner than say nuclear energy? You are comparing tons of poisonous compounds to a few grams of radioactive waste. Tons vs grams.

 

[harryopal1]

Not that new though; didn’t Faraday invent the electric engine 200 years ago or so?

Anyway, my point is simple; something which is not there, can not break. If you think about it; an ICE (internal combustion engine) is a complex and rather difficult to maintain piece of technology.

It isn't just the motor breakdown concern but any item on completely a new brand of car may present part replacement problems. If I stick with familiar, say Toyota, cars then I know that getting parts and repairs done would not be a problem.

 

[pantaiema]

The primary challenge with EVs lies in the battery, which is not only one of the most costly components but also adds significant weight, creating extra load on the vehicle.

There is potential in replacing traditional batteries with solid state batteries, but these have yet to be mass produced or made commercially viable. If they do reach large scale production, and commercially viable that might be the end of internal combustion engines (ICE).

However, the question is when? I am sceptical, as efforts to achieve this have been ongoing for many decades. It is similar to the case with superconductors, where no companies has reached the mass commercialization.

 

[Hawk256]

The primary challenge with EVs lies in the battery, which is not only one of the most costly components but also adds significant weight, creating extra load on the vehicle.

There is potential in replacing traditional batteries with solid state batteries, but these have yet to be mass produced or made commercially viable. If they do reach large scale production, and commercially viable that might be the end of internal combustion engines (ICE).

However, the question is when? I am sceptical, as efforts to achieve this have been ongoing for many decades. It is similar to the case with superconductors, where no companies has reached the mass commercialization.

I used to be close friends with the lead battery engineer at Motorola back in the day. Long before lithium ion batteries (think in the days of nicad) they were working on a battery that would charge almost instantly and last for days. One minor problem though, when it failed, it exploded violently. I'm sure there are dozens of similar stories in the develpment of modern batteries that we don't know about. If it was easy, it would have likely been done by now. Surely a breakthrough will happen at some point though. Still not sure how environmentally friendly the next step will be but it would be hard to be worse.

 

[Shadrach]

You don't see all these poisonous batteries as a threat to the environment? They aren't exactly clean to make and even worse to dispose of. You can say they are recycled but we all know the truth about recycling. It's not how it was promised. How is solar with battereies any cleaner than say nuclear energy? You are comparing tons of poisonous compounds to a few grams of radioactive waste. Tons vs grams.

I never said that batteries are not a pollution problem. I said they should be more made more efficiently and environmentally safe. And you wonder how solar energy with batteries is any cleaner than nuclear energy? If you think nuclear waste and emissions are OK. Then think about the victims of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima! Look at Chernobyl, and Fukushima. These people can never safely return home. If you think this deadly energy source is great, the beauty of having forums, is everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we might not agree, but that's democracy.

 

[pantaiema]

I never said that batteries are not a pollution problem. I said they should be more made more efficiently and environmentally safe. And you wonder how solar energy with batteries is any cleaner than nuclear energy? If you think nuclear waste and emissions are OK. Then think about the victims of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima! Look at Chernobyl, and Fukushima. These people can never safely return home. If you think this deadly energy source is great, the beauty of having forums, is everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we might not agree, but that's democracy.

From an energy efficiency standpoint, EVs are certainly more efficient than ICE due to fewer transmission losses. EVs deliver instant power and torque, allowing them to reach top speeds without the need for gear shifts.

However, from energy conservation POV, unless the charging network are powered by renewable sources like PV, there is little difference. The main distinction is that fossil fuels in ICE comes from individual vehicle fuel tanks, while for the power plants it comes from large fossil fuel tank in the power plants.

From a scientific perspective, considering energy conservation law. In the close loop system, the energy could be converted/transformed but can not be generated/created. Generally speaking, while fossil fuel is a form of energy sources, a rechargeable battery is only an energy storage, you will still need to get one form of energy from somewhere else to be stored into the EV battery though the charging network. That energy might come from fossil fuel in the power stations.

The main benefit of EVs is the improvement in city air quality. Whether we like it or not, some big cities around the world are already enforcing restrictions on which vehicles can freely move within inner city areas and they keep tightening the rule. In cities like Jakarta or Bali, where congestion and city air quality is a significant issue, this can be particularly beneficial.

As for battery recycling, some companies are already separating key components for reuse. While this process is not yet profitable; with government incentives and increased battery volume to leverage economies of scale, this could become a viable options in the future.

 

[Hawk256]

I never said that batteries are not a pollution problem. I said they should be more made more efficiently and environmentally safe. And you wonder how solar energy with batteries is any cleaner than nuclear energy? If you think nuclear waste and emissions are OK. Then think about the victims of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima! Look at Chernobyl, and Fukushima. These people can never safely return home. If you think this deadly energy source is great, the beauty of having forums, is everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we might not agree, but that's democracy.

I'm not talking about a battery in the distant future, I'm refering to what we have now. Most people don't understand nuclear energy or the waste it actually makes. Research on your own if you like. Hard to compare a weapon of war to a power plant but you know that. The others were accidents that wouldn't have taken place if proper procedures had been followed. But if you feel safer with batteries burning down houses with 3 fires a day (even with there low usage) in the UK alone in addition to enviromental impact, that's up to you. Imagine every house having battery backups for their solar power. What would happen then? My point with this whole argrument is that there are no perfect answers. There is nothing for free when it comes to energy. A price will be paid in one way or another.

Fires caused by lithium-ion batteries up 46% last year | British Safety Council

The number of fires linked to lithium-ion batteries in the UK increased by 46 per cent in 2023, compared with the previous year, new research from business insurer QBE has shown.

www.britsafe.org

 

[jstar]

I feel more safe with some lithium batteries in my cars and a solar system then a nuclear power plant in Indonesia.

 

[jstar]

The whole “fires in car batteries” thing is part of the big oil and certain press efforts to fight the BEV advance. An el cheapo phone charger or power bank made in China is not really comparable to the battery management system in electric cars.

They always forget to mention that most car fires are not in parking garages but on highways with cars that have combustion engines. It’s rather easy to find numbers on that.

 

[Pak Tani]

... a nuclear power plant in Indonesia.

Yeah, about that:

There is some modest ambition, probably in Bangka Belitung.

 

[Shadrach]

I agree with Jstar about having Nuclear power plants in Indonesia. This country is far too volatile with so many Earthquakes! Just this month in Bali there have been two.
I also had solar power in my home, and due to living next to Canada, Because the long cold winter months, I had to have my deep cycle battery bank in my home. Never a problem! Of course, no one wants any more pollution, that's why I suggested more government sponsored research to develop more efficient, longer lasting, lighter, hopefully non toxic batteries.
It was mentioned that those nuclear power plants that had meltdowns were due to human neglect. That still doesn't make the radiation released any less toxic.
What ever happened to fusion non radioactive energy? Was it even possible? If it was viable, I would be supportive of that.

 

[John indonesia]

Scooters like mini-motorbikes are getting really popular in my area.
They say they don't need a SIM, pay tax, or wear a helmet (do motorbike riders ?).
Whatever legal status they have, the things are everywhere. They have pedals but most I've seen don't bother putting them on. They have gel or lead acid batteries (I don't really know), and they seem to have a range from around 40 to 60 km.
For local travel, they seem like a very cheap and sensible option.

 

[jstar]

Those mini electrical bikes that you can buy everywhere here (even TransMart) are extremely popular with young kids, age 7-12. Even more so on Bali than Jakarta. They are a bit the equivalent of the electric steps (scooters) in European cities that you can rent.

I guess even the parents realize it’s not a good idea to have them use the motorcycle -they can after reaching 14- but they forget with these things going 35 km/h on public roads is irresponsible for that age group

Don’t forget you are screwed when you hit them, traffic rules are completely irrelevant.

 

[jstar]

For scooter, I choose EV scooter Selis Emax (very disappointed - no power, terrible suspension, poor handling and battery, )

We have a Volta 401 here. Not bad, dual battery slot and 1.500 watt. It doesn’t make the advertised 120 km, but 100 is feasible. I prefer it over the Scoopy for a quick trip to the IndoMaret…

 

[Hawk256]

Don't count out ICE just yet. This type of engine could be made to power even small things in the future. No large, bulky battereis needed.

Company creates revolutionary new car engine with 'unprecedented' efficiency: 'Groundbreaking engine technology'

"Designed to usher in a greener and more sustainable future."

us.yahoo.com

 

[harryopal1]

Don't count out ICE just yet. This type of engine could be made to power even small things in the future. No large, bulky battereis needed.

Company creates revolutionary new car engine with 'unprecedented' efficiency: 'Groundbreaking engine technology'

"Designed to usher in a greener and more sustainable future."

us.yahoo.com

I may be confusing the technology but I recall over 50 years ago a fellow in Melbourne modified a conventional sedan to use a hydrogen powered engine. He could also drive it remotely but the big problem was storage for the amount of water needed and he had storage in the door frames and so many other places in the car that the car was very heavy. As best I can remember he never did get any government support for further development.