E21A chaos

[kripik-pisang]

In my opinion, if you are using an agent, you are already dependent on th

My agent had no objection to me changing my sponsor from her to my wife and ended my previous kitas. Imigrasi seems to have had no issies either. They said my leaving was perfect as I could then enter on a new visa (E31A) sponsored by my wife.

 

[pantaiema]

My agent had no objection to me changing my sponsor from her to my wife and ended my previous kitas. Imigrasi seems to have had no issies either. They said my leaving was perfect as I could then enter on a new visa (E31A) sponsored by my wife.

Will the charges differ if you use your wife as your guarantor/sponsor compared to using them as a guarantor/sponsor?

Keep in mind that when your wife is the sponsor, there is less responsibility or obligation involved for the agent. A guarantor has the financial responsibility to cover all the cost including the repatriation costs if (God forbid) you have to be deported.

So, if your wife is your sponsor, the responsibility is reduced, and the fees should be reduced as it will only cover the agent's processing costs to speed up the process.

 

[centurion]

Will the charges differ if you use your wife as your guarantor/sponsor compared to using them as a guarantor/sponsor?

Keep in mind that when your wife is the sponsor, there is less responsibility or obligation involved for the agent. A guarantor has the financial responsibility to cover all the cost including the repatriation costs if (God forbid) you have to be deported.

So, if your wife is your sponsor, the responsibility is reduced, and the fees should be reduced as it will only cover the agent's processing costs to speed up the process.

Actually,if the spouse is sponor, she has no responisbility for repatriation costs.

 

[m17tgw]

I recently changed my sponsor from a visa agent to my wife as my kitas renewal date was coming up. It all seemed pretty simple. I was going back to the UK for a month, which imigrasi said was good and would make it easier. I left and my wife submitted an application for E31A, received an invoice with "explanatory notes" in English (my wife doesn't speak much English). She paid the amount in rupiah (thinking that the US$ amount was probably for people paying from overseas). When no link to download the visa arrived she went back and they said you haven't paid the dollar amount. Apparently she has to change rupiah into dollars!!! and then take the dollars to Bank Mandiri. When she originally inquired as to the cost of E31A they told her it was 2.7jt, no mention of an additional $150 so I fully understand why she thought it wasn't relevant as she paid 2.7jt.
Because of this she's been told that the 2.7jt is forfeit and she must apply again. If everything goes smoothly she will have to send me the visa via WhatsApp after I have left the UK. If it doesn't go smoothly, then what do I need to do. Apply online for C317? On the evia.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection the page sticks one I get onto the third drop-down box and stays stuck so it appears that the website is designed to make sure no one can do anything.

Hi there, I've noticed if anyone has issues with the website with buttons sticking/ not responding this is possibly down to the website browser you are using to login too, I tried processing my E-VOA back in January and I use Brave, Firefox & Opera GX browsers and all buttons for payment were sticking, I tried again with the Microsoft Edge browser and this seemed to fix the links and the sticking is possibly caused by the built in advert blockers on these browsers, hope this can help people best of luck Marty

 

[centurion]

Hi there, I've noticed if anyone has issues with the website with buttons sticking/ not responding this is possibly down to the website browser you are using to login too, I tried processing my E-VOA back in January and I use Brave, Firefox & Opera GX browsers and all buttons for payment were sticking, I tried again with the Microsoft Edge browser and this seemed to fix the links and the sticking is possibly caused by the built in advert blockers on these browsers, hope this can help people best of luck Marty

This is why people use agents. Call a professional.

 

[Hawk256]

This is why people use agents. Call a professional.

You shouldn't need to call someone else to do the basic bare minimum. A well written web page is more than sufficient. If you can't give someone that, then let them come into the office. Literally what Immigration is there for.

 

[centurion]

You shouldn't need to call someone else to do the basic bare minimum. A well written web page is more than sufficient. If you can't give someone that, then let them come into the office. Literally what Immigration is there for.

Every recent reform of Immigration/Work permit procedure in last 10 years was to make the process more difficultor prone to errors-despite claiming the opposite.

 

[jstar]

You got a point there, C. Even our (Balinese!) neighbor uses an agent for her own passport since they -quote- “make it so difficult”.

When we imported pets the officials were asking why we didn’t use an agent; more convenient (read: duit ).

 

[m17tgw]

This is why people use agents. Call a professional.

Quite so pal, but any advice that can help people save $$$ by a simple solution, & and Improve there Computer literacy can save you stress and money, this is a forum after all

 

[Helpful Herbert]

We haven't used an agent for 10 years. So much easier and more satisfying to do it yourself (at least in south jakarta which is very efficient).

 

[jstar]

That’s the thing; I’m used to the Jakarta immigration offices and used the Balinese and others for extensions for visitors. No issues, perfectly possible without agent. But the moment a Balinese person complains that immigration in Bali makes it very difficult to apply for something…

 

[pantaiema]

Actually,if the spouse is sponor, she has no responsibility for repatriation costs.

Not really. With the new visa index for a wni-sponsored spouse (E31A, previously C317), the guarantor must apply through their guarantor account. If the applicant is not using an agent, the guarantor is the spouse. There is a statement or declaration like this one that the guarantor (in this case, the spouse) must sign, as seen in the example attached. The guarantor's obligations are clearly outlined in Law UU No. 6/2011, so it is not something new. The wording in the example declaration is quite similar to what is stated in the law.
"A Guarantor is responsible for
3. All costs arising as a result of the presence and activities of the person concerned while in Indonesia until his/her return to the country of origin."

If enforcement of the C317 visa was more lenient in the past, or if no Indonesian guarantor has been required to cover repatriation costs so far, that is a different matter.

 

[centurion]

Not really. With the new visa index for a wni-sponsored spouse (E31A, previously C317), the guarantor must apply through their guarantor account. If the applicant is not using an agent, the guarantor is the spouse. There is a statement or declaration like this one that the guarantor (in this case, the spouse) must sign, as seen in the example attached. The guarantor's obligations are clearly outlined in Law UU No. 6/2011, so it is not something new. The wording in the example declaration is quite similar to what is stated in the law.
"A Guarantor is responsible for
3. All costs arising as a result of the presence and activities of the person concerned while in Indonesia until his/her return to the country of origin."

If enforcement of the C317 visa was more lenient in the past, or if no Indonesian guarantor has been required to cover repatriation costs so far, that is a different matter.

Not applied to spouse

Law on Immigration No 6 2011
Article 63
(1) Certain Foreigner who is present in the Indonesian Territory shall be obliged to have a Guarantor that warrants his/her presence.
2) The Guarantor shall be obliged on the presence and activities of Foreigner who is warranted while staying in the Indonesian Territory and shall be obliged to report every change in civil status, Immigration status, and change in address.
(3) The Guarantor shall be obliged to pay any cost arising out to return or expel the warranted Foreigner from the Indonesian Territory in case of the following:
a. The valid period of such Foreigner Stay Permit has expired;
b. Subject to Immigration Administrative Action in the form of Deportation.
(4) Provision concerning warranty is not valid to Foreigner who is legally married with an Indonesian citizen.

 

[pantaiema]

Not applied to spouse

Law on Immigration No 6 2011
Article 63
(1) Certain Foreigner who is present in the Indonesian Territory shall be obliged to have a Guarantor that warrants his/her presence.
2) The Guarantor shall be obliged on the presence and activities of Foreigner who is warranted while staying in the Indonesian Territory and shall be obliged to report every change in civil status, Immigration status, and change in address.
(3) The Guarantor shall be obliged to pay any cost arising out to return or expel the warranted Foreigner from the Indonesian Territory in case of the following:
a. The valid period of such Foreigner Stay Permit has expired;
b. Subject to Immigration Administrative Action in the form of Deportation.
(4) Provision concerning warranty is not valid to Foreigner who is legally married with an Indonesian citizen.

Thanks, good to know there is a law that can serve as a legitimate defence. There have been some reports regarding the new visa index E31A (which replaced C317), where individuals were asked by immigration for a guarantor letter (see attached). The main difference between C317 and E31A is that the E31A visa is intended for a foreigner legally married to a wni applying from outside Indonesian territory to join their family. This is an example of the case I'm referring to, where a guarantor letter was requested by immigration (see attached).

 

[centurion]

Thanks, good to know there is a law that can serve as a legitimate defence. There have been some reports regarding the new visa index E31A (which replaced C317), where individuals were asked by immigration for a guarantor letter (see attached). The main difference between C317 and E31A is that the E31A visa is intended for a foreigner legally married to a wni applying from outside Indonesian territory to join their family. This is an example of the case I'm referring to, where a guarantor letter was requested by immigration (see attached).

In the draft form point 3 should be deleted in case of spouse sponsored visa. However, if the immigration official is not aware of the law, the application can be rejected.

 

[marcus]

I have no idea if you can apply for it while out of the country...

Procedures have changed lately and from what I understand , you can apply for the E31A Visa at https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection from anywhere (I saw somewhere that you can pay everything with a credit card) .

In reality you apply for both the Visa and the e-ITAS (which you will get when you arrive in Indonesia) .

Both imigrasi and my previous visa agent said that it was easier to change sponsor from visa agent to my wife while I was out of the country...

I did that recently , but when in Indonesia (I think you cannot do when abroad because Immigration requests your passport to initiate the process).

I think this is the cheapest option for situations like mine and yours because you save the Visa fee (US$150) and maybe a trip abroad (in some cases) . The visa agent will charge for the "no objection to sponsor change" letter but he/she would also charge for the "EPO/Return Immigration Documents" otherwise (if one decides for the E31A option) .

But somebody would still prefer the E31A option because now we can choose the 2 years e-ITAS for Indonesian spouse sponsorship (when changing sponsor of a 1 year e-ITAS , the new e-ITAS will also be a 1 year e-ITAS) .

 

[marcus]

Will the charges differ if you use your wife as your guarantor/sponsor compared to using them as a guarantor/sponsor? ...

Even if both processes are done by an agent , usually the agent charges less for the Indonesian spouse's KITAS , because in the other case the agent also charges for the sponsorship (for example : Rp9 million x Rp14 million) .

The advantage increases if the foreigner/Indonesian spouse do the process themselves (which is not possible for a sponsored KITAS) .

 

[marcus]

...There have been some reports regarding the new visa index E31A (which replaced C317), where individuals were asked by immigration for a guarantor letter ...

Few months ago I extended my e-ITAS sponsored by my Indonesian wife , and yes , Immigration asked for the guarantor letter , but it is just 1 more (easy to get) letter .
In the E31A Visa request situation , I think now , the Indonesian spouse does not need to register as a guarantor , which is a bigger difference (in accordance to the Law) .

Anyway , I think this subject is not important/effective because in more than 20 years reading related forum almost everyday , I never heard of a sponsor & guarantor who had to be held responsible for his/her sponsoree's/sponsee's debt or deportation .

My former Retirement KITAS's sponsor lived in a different city , we never met .
I am/was sponsored by 2 wives (in different times) , but in both cases I am/was the one responsible for them .

 

[pantaiema]

Few months ago I extended my e-ITAS sponsored by my Indonesian wife , and yes , Immigration asked for the guarantor letter , but it is just 1 more (easy to get) letter .
In the E31A Visa request situation , I think now , the Indonesian spouse does not need to register as a guarantor , which is a bigger difference (in accordance to the Law) .

Anyway , I think this subject is not important/effective because in more than 20 years reading related forum almost everyday , I never heard of a sponsor & guarantor who had to be held responsible for his/her sponsoree's/sponsee's debt or deportation .

My former Retirement KITAS's sponsor lived in a different city , we never met .
I am/was sponsored by 2 wives (in different times) , but in both cases I am/was the one responsible for them .

Based on what I read from people experience. The wni guarantor will need to register a guarantor account. Otherwise the system will not allow them to progress.

Anyway , I think this subject is not important/effective because in more than 20 years reading related forum almost everyday , I never heard of a sponsor & guarantor who had to be held responsible for his/her sponsoree's/sponsee's debt or deportation .

I have mentioned in my previous posts as well that I haven’t heard of anyone wni being asked to cover "repatriation costs."
Why would they, if It is generally a lot easier to involve the embassy, to take care of their citizens and the embassy will pay for all repatriation expenses?

However, the concern is that if you sign a document with a statement attached in the document, it indicates that you have read and agreed to the terms as a guarantor and they could enforce if they have to.

While this scenario is unlikely in Indonesia, it could still happen. In such cases, the person you are guaranteeing could get divorced in absentia, They did not report to the embassy about their presence in Indonesia. If this occurs, it could create serious problems for the guarantor.

A similar situation can arise when someone uses their spouse’s name to purchase property or spouse’s ac to transfer their pension. People can change, and it is impossible to predict what might happen in the future.

 

[marcus]

Based on what I read from people experience. The wni guarantor will need to register a guarantor account. Otherwise the system will not allow you to progress.

Well , I never requested an Indonesian e-Visa yet , but from what I see , the "Guarantee from the guarantor" is not required for the E31A Visa (Spouse of Indonesian's Visa) at https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection , which means no "Guarantor" is required for the E31A .

So when one clicks in "Apply" for an e-Visa , then clicks "Yes" to "Do you want to apply for a personal visa ?" , then "Create an Account" , then for this E31A non-guarantor Visa , this account is to be the foreigner's account (not the Guarantor's account) .

The above seems coherent with what macvert told us at https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/b211a-visa-extension.7691/#post-106365 , post no.19 :
marcus said : I am not sure what was the problem . Maybe because the account is to be the foreigner's account , not the Indonesian spouse's account . (in response to samoerai's : ...I saw a lot of posts of WNAs that they cannot proceed their application in the 'new' imigrasi system because the system asks the WNI to input a passport number .. when making an account.)

macvert said : This seems to be the case
When I applied myself, voila, it took me to a different page than my wife was led to & where I could upload all the required documents, including my wife's KTP.

----------------------------------------------

From https://evisa.imigrasi.go.id/web/visa-selection :
Document Requirement for E31A Visa

1. Valid Passport at least 6 months.
2. Proof of living expenses of at least US$2000 or equivalent.
3. Latest color photograph.
4. Curriculum Vitae.
5. Travel Itinerary.
6. Application from husband or wife (Indonesian citizen). (Poster's Note: different from "Guarantee from the guarantor")
7. Evidence that the foreigner has lawfully married ...