Domestic violence, need advice/opinion

And now Afghani women have to face the merciless brutality of the Taliban. It seems there is a capacity for mindless violence lurks somewhere within us all. Better to leave than having to resort to violence to defend oneself.
 
And now Afghani women have to face the merciless brutality of the Taliban. It seems there is a capacity for mindless violence lurks somewhere within us all. Better to leave than having to resort to violence to defend oneself.
At this stage I don't think it is just the women who will face violence, sadly.
I think Afghanistan is in for some extremely horrid times ahead, my heart goes out to all its citizens who must surely have lost all hope of better times ahead. I don't think content people would chase a taxiing plane down a runway & cling on as it took off & then ultimately fall to their death- desperation forges such moves.

The fact of the matter is thus: we live in a very patriarchal world, a world that values dollars over lives, a world where we see so much horror on our small screens that many cease to be apalled by it.
Rich countries step in to help poorer countries - not out of the goodness of their hearts- but for the deals they can get in exchange for that aid. At some point things come to a breaking point, I believe the world is on the cusp of that breaking point, as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer- unrest is to be birthed from the divide. Globally.
 
Certainly is domestic abuse if women occuring all around the world. Some places reporting of it is going up, some it is hardly reported based primarily on social norns and cultures. In both cases, it exist and is far too much.

This thread started in reference to male domestic abuse. This also certainly happens but it is something that is reported at a great lessor number. While the number of male abuse could be far less than female abuse I doubt if anyone would actually know just how much. Male domestic abuse isn't reported simply because of ego, macho, or the fear of being humiliated. If for some reason the abused male turns the table for pay back, they then become the abuser and it gets reported as such.

I am very fortunate I guess. I have never experienced any type of abuse nor have I ever even had any thoughts of being the abuser. I guess my mother and her mother raised us right. It all boils down to the simple thing of respect for each other and being able to communicate openly and honestly with each other.
 
When is she posting her version?
Anyway I watched Mr and Mrs Smith. Maybe it was erotic foreplay?
Pass the salt please honey
I have to agree that it takes two to tango, there is always two sides to every story, and every other cliche that says it's not wise to take someone's word at face value.

There's a reason why men almost never report domestic violence perpetrated by a female partner.
 
With respect, it doesn't always take two to tango, not when mental health issues are the primary cause of it. Yes, there are always two sides to every story (or even more). I've been reading up online the past few days and it best fits borderline personality disorder, one of the most difficult to treat, because to a sufferer the extreme emotions feel real. That is their reality.... the emotions. But the emotional responses seem all out of proportion to other people around them. The only way they can fix it is by acknowledging it and then working really hard with various strategies to help them think more clearly. But, of course, very few sufferers will seek help, or will just agree to to avoid losing you but not take it seriously at all. Rationality does not help.

There are lots of reasons why modern technology has exacerbated this issue. If you don't reply to a message within 5 minutes, or reply to someone else first who has a more urgent need for a response, then it is misunderstood as 'evidence' you are having an affair, or at the very least chatting with another woman. In my case, the TV guy accidentally left three CCTV channels on our television (!) and my wife was using this to monitor my behaviour when going down to collect gofood. It's bonkers. Funny but... totally mad.

At the beginning there was no aggression and the mild paranoia just seemed a bit 'quirky'. It got so much more extreme after marriage, such as the example above, as though that meant more control could be wielded. The very occasional meet-up with friends ends up with her calling after just one or two hours demanding a video chat in which she wants to see a full 360 degrees to check there are no females nearby (!) or accusations of talking to other women - the focus of her paranoia, based on a heightened sense of fear due to the disorder, but not linked to reality.

Or if she comes along it is more as if she is there to monitor me rather than socialise. No wonder she struggles to have friends - a red flag I missed earlier on. An ex-colleague's wife was like this but worse.... she actually poured beer over a female colleague of ours, just... for being female and therefore regarded as some kind of threat to her marriage. Again, how can you not feel a bit of compassion for such people who do not know what trust is and are living in a place far from reality? But when they start grabbing knives then.... it's another matter. And then their greatest fear does come true when you do leave them and end up dating someone else, and then they think they were right all along! They only see what their emotions allow them to see.

A black and white thinking is another key part of borderline personality disorder, with no grey in the middle. Of course, life is mostly complex and grey, not definitely A or B or 'if you want some time alone then surely you are with another woman' mentality. No ability to see nuance. I do feel sorry for people who lack this skill and just see everything in binary. The fact I changed my pin was understood as being evidence I had something to hide, rather than I simply wanted her to stop delving, searching, investigating.

Many folk I know here have spoken of girlfriends going through their phones, the idea of trust and personal privacy almost completely forgotten about or never even known. And jealousy seen as a positive attribute - that seems quite common here. Indeed I had all this once before several years ago. That particular woman got suddenly shocked when I asked to look at her phone messages after she had been going through mine! Eventually she agreed and it turned out there was some stuff on there that.... made her look rather bad, exactly the same things she was perhaps hoping to find on my phone but didn't! At that moment, I told her I wanted some time alone and that she should go home and I would speak to her a few days later.

She didn't take this advice and instead threatened to kill herself. I finally managed to convince her to leave, all the while thinking to myself 'definitely mad' and having that tingling feeling of utter fear and the sense she was 'dislocated' from what is reality for everyone else. It got worse. She waited for me to leave, and then followed me in a taxi to a cafe where I had arranged to have a few beers with friends to try to 'put things out of my mind'. She ended up getting thrown out of the cafe and that was the end of that. I was relieved to be 'free' and I never really had strong feelings for her but had been guilt-tripped into 'looking after her'. She is now married and I can only wish her husband the best of luck with that. No link to poverty in my experience - one was rich, one not so rich.

So, having had this a second time recently, presumably having failed to learn, I do have to think that I invite it somehow, or that perhaps a larger number of women here who are specifically interested in dating foreigners are more likely to have this paranoia and controlling behaviour than the general population at large. But this second time, the difference is both that I do care a huge amount about her welfare and we are married. But loving someone who grabs a knife or gets increasingly controlling and stuck in her distorted emotional reality is.... almost impossible and probably inadvisable.

I still haven't decided what to do yet personally as it is complicated being on a spouse visa here, no job at present, return to home country would cost a fortune, still waiting for 2nd jab. So I'm just thinking very carefully about the options from a hotel. It may take several more days to reach a conclusion. On the one hand it's awful to abandon someone with an illness to potentially make the same mistakes for the rest of their life, with increasingly diminishing returns in terms of relationships and perhaps a really sad end. But on the other, I don't want to be an abused 'doctor' instead of a husband. I should say that most of the time we have no problems at all, but these episodes are so bad and getting worse (firstly after marriage, and secondly during lockdown) that they end up with worse results each time. Such are the emotional extremes that these episodes are 'forgotten' within minutes (!) as she goes back to normal whilst I remain traumatized, thinking 'what on earth was that?'

But if someone won't trust you or listen to your advice, accuses you of things that are simply not true, goes completely mad if you do so much as look at a female flight attendant for example, then how the hell can it be resolved without behavioural therapy which is difficult to access here and not seen as necessary by many of the people who most need it?
 
With respect, it doesn't always take two to tango, not when mental health issues are the primary cause of it. Yes, there are always two sides to every story (or even more). I've been reading up online the past few days and it best fits borderline personality disorder, one of the most difficult to treat, because to a sufferer the extreme emotions feel real. That is their reality.... the emotions. But the emotional responses seem all out of proportion to other people around them. The only way they can fix it is by acknowledging it and then working really hard with various strategies to help them think more clearly. But, of course, very few sufferers will seek help, or will just agree to to avoid losing you but not take it seriously at all. Rationality does not help.

There are lots of reasons why modern technology has exacerbated this issue. If you don't reply to a message within 5 minutes, or reply to someone else first who has a more urgent need for a response, then it is misunderstood as 'evidence' you are having an affair, or at the very least chatting with another woman. In my case, the TV guy accidentally left three CCTV channels on our television (!) and my wife was using this to monitor my behaviour when going down to collect gofood. It's bonkers. Funny but... totally mad.

At the beginning there was no aggression and the mild paranoia just seemed a bit 'quirky'. It got so much more extreme after marriage, such as the example above, as though that meant more control could be wielded. The very occasional meet-up with friends ends up with her calling after just one or two hours demanding a video chat in which she wants to see a full 360 degrees to check there are no females nearby (!) or accusations of talking to other women - the focus of her paranoia, based on a heightened sense of fear due to the disorder, but not linked to reality.

Or if she comes along it is more as if she is there to monitor me rather than socialise. No wonder she struggles to have friends - a red flag I missed earlier on. An ex-colleague's wife was like this but worse.... she actually poured beer over a female colleague of ours, just... for being female and therefore regarded as some kind of threat to her marriage. Again, how can you not feel a bit of compassion for such people who do not know what trust is and are living in a place far from reality? But when they start grabbing knives then.... it's another matter. And then their greatest fear does come true when you do leave them and end up dating someone else, and then they think they were right all along! They only see what their emotions allow them to see.

A black and white thinking is another key part of borderline personality disorder, with no grey in the middle. Of course, life is mostly complex and grey, not definitely A or B or 'if you want some time alone then surely you are with another woman' mentality. No ability to see nuance. I do feel sorry for people who lack this skill and just see everything in binary. The fact I changed my pin was understood as being evidence I had something to hide, rather than I simply wanted her to stop delving, searching, investigating.

Many folk I know here have spoken of girlfriends going through their phones, the idea of trust and personal privacy almost completely forgotten about or never even known. And jealousy seen as a positive attribute - that seems quite common here. Indeed I had all this once before several years ago. That particular woman got suddenly shocked when I asked to look at her phone messages after she had been going through mine! Eventually she agreed and it turned out there was some stuff on there that.... made her look rather bad, exactly the same things she was perhaps hoping to find on my phone but didn't! At that moment, I told her I wanted some time alone and that she should go home and I would speak to her a few days later.

She didn't take this advice and instead threatened to kill herself. I finally managed to convince her to leave, all the while thinking to myself 'definitely mad' and having that tingling feeling of utter fear and the sense she was 'dislocated' from what is reality for everyone else. It got worse. She waited for me to leave, and then followed me in a taxi to a cafe where I had arranged to have a few beers with friends to try to 'put things out of my mind'. She ended up getting thrown out of the cafe and that was the end of that. I was relieved to be 'free' and I never really had strong feelings for her but had been guilt-tripped into 'looking after her'. She is now married and I can only wish her husband the best of luck with that. No link to poverty in my experience - one was rich, one not so rich.

So, having had this a second time recently, presumably having failed to learn, I do have to think that I invite it somehow, or that perhaps a larger number of women here who are specifically interested in dating foreigners are more likely to have this paranoia and controlling behaviour than the general population at large. But this second time, the difference is both that I do care a huge amount about her welfare and we are married. But loving someone who grabs a knife or gets increasingly controlling and stuck in her distorted emotional reality is.... almost impossible and probably inadvisable.

I still haven't decided what to do yet personally as it is complicated being on a spouse visa here, no job at present, return to home country would cost a fortune, still waiting for 2nd jab. So I'm just thinking very carefully about the options from a hotel. It may take several more days to reach a conclusion. On the one hand it's awful to abandon someone with an illness to potentially make the same mistakes for the rest of their life, with increasingly diminishing returns in terms of relationships and perhaps a really sad end. But on the other, I don't want to be an abused 'doctor' instead of a husband. I should say that most of the time we have no problems at all, but these episodes are so bad and getting worse (firstly after marriage, and secondly during lockdown) that they end up with worse results each time. Such are the emotional extremes that these episodes are 'forgotten' within minutes (!) as she goes back to normal whilst I remain traumatized, thinking 'what on earth was that?'

But if someone won't trust you or listen to your advice, accuses you of things that are simply not true, goes completely mad if you do so much as look at a female flight attendant for example, then how the hell can it be resolved without behavioural therapy which is difficult to access here and not seen as necessary by many of the people who most need it?
I was in a similar relationship for about 25 years... it started off well but gradually escalated into more & more intolerable behaviour, an example would be for him to shout at the top of his voice calling me a C*nt purely because I had wandered down a different aisle in the DIY shop.
I was accused of having sex with one of his family, I was accused of having sex with my male work colleagues, I was accused of everything- in the end I compartmentalized my life- he became background noise that was highly resented, borderline hatred.
However, I constantly modified my own behaviour in order to make him feel better (& less likely to be abusive) .
The stress that puts on the one being verbally/psch/phys abused over the years/decades is enormous.
Yes, our abuser can be wonderful and charming but we spend our time trying to figure out what the triggers are (and they can change or not even really exist in a pattern anymore than a mood swing does) in order to avoid them, we live by constantly creeping around on eggshells... Over time the strain has a physical effect along with the emotional one.
The one thing that was a major catalyst for me was learning that I was only responsible for my own happiness in life ... back to my earlier comment, no matter how much we love them we cannot "fix" them, that is their responsibility - they have to seek help & deal with their own issues, we cannot do it for them, no more than we could fix an alcoholic or drug addict.
Having lived under the Sword of Damocles for a couple of decades re the whole suicide thing I have developed a great disrespect /zero tolerance of anyone who tries that line with me - say it even once and it is bye bye.
I make that clear in almost all relationships be they friendship, family or more romantic in nature that suicide threats are not the card to play with me as they will just just be wasting their breath or deaded by their own hand.
I am harsh- I learnt to be.
 
My very strong advice to you is to walk away.
Domestic violence kills people be it through a physical act of the abuser or through suicide of the one being mistreated.
If it doesn't kill outright it certainly sucks the life & soul out of the one being abused.
I was never freer or happier than when I walked away, bizarrely (& I don't advocate this when knives are getting pulled !!!) I stood my ground and ended the relationship, yet managed to live quite ok in the same house with him for over a year, the relationship actually improved dramatically. Once I had laid down the facts that it was over never ever to happen again it sucked all tension out of the house.

I came to Indonesia, & I have the absolute antithesis of that guy now, my Indonesian hubby is kind, gentle, no pushover but funny & considerate and all the things I had been without.
 
My very strong advice to you is to walk away.
Domestic violence kills people be it through a physical act of the abuser or through suicide of the one being mistreated.
If it doesn't kill outright it certainly sucks the life & soul out of the one being abused.
I was never freer or happier than when I walked away, bizarrely (& I don't advocate this when knives are getting pulled !!!) I stood my ground and ended the relationship, yet managed to live quite ok in the same house with him for over a year, the relationship actually improved dramatically. Once I had laid down the facts that it was over never ever to happen again it sucked all tension out of the house.

I came to Indonesia, & I have the absolute antithesis of that guy now, my Indonesian hubby is kind, gentle, no pushover but funny & considerate and all the things I had been without.
I am happy your life has changed around and you have found peace .
 
Hell, after all it seems I had / have an easy life !

And when as @mateo your visa depends on your wife / husband it makes things administratively even more complicated.

Hence again, cut the madness at the first sign.

The suicide threats have never impressed me, a few superficial cuts on the fore arm (probably they learned that on their TV dramas ?).
A work colleague of mine had a very difficult situation once in South Korea, where his "g/f" sat on the window, hotel 17th floor and threatening to jump.
Me and my Korean g/f had the room next door and hearing the commotion went to have a look, and hell yep it was serious. I'll sound harsh but I didn't care she wanted to kill herself, I was more worried about the BIG problems that it would cause for my friend.
I managed to call up immediately some hotel staff, to talk to her (and mainly to be witness). It ended OK, but hell, we had a few whiskeys after that.

Second time was a mate who got depressive on board, and wanted to jump of the ship, straight in the propellors. Ended ok as well. Had he done it late at night the result would have different.
 
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I find it hard to imagine jumping from a multi storey building. My thoughts are that on the way down there is enough time to think, I've changed my mind.
 
I find it hard to imagine jumping from a multi storey building. My thoughts are that on the way down there is enough time to think, I've changed my mind.
A shocking high number of "jumpers" each year in Pattaya, Thailand.
Many of them "farangs" (=bule) broken heart, out of money or old and terminally ill.
Agreed that there are less terrifying ways to top oneself.
 
A shocking high number of "jumpers" each year in Pattaya, Thailand.
Many of them "farangs" (=bule) broken heart, out of money or old and terminally ill.
Agreed that there are less terrifying ways to top oneself.
Yeah, jumpers, let's go with that. 555
 
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@Matoa You seem to have a pattern of getting into abusive relationships. Correct me if I'm wrong. However, if there were other overly-possessive women beside your wife and ex, then "It takes two to tango" might apply in your case.

You've gotten some great advice. The most valuable one was to set the precedent in your next relationship. This doesn't mean make a list and go through each item one by one. Although let's be honest, us men would love to do this since it sounds so reasonable and it'd be a big timesaver.

It's simple: communicate and talk about jealousy and infidelity. Nip it in the bud before emotions take over, especially in social situations. Once you're seen as an unapologetic drunk flirt, you will never live this down. Now if she can't work with you, and trust that you're not cheating if you look at, text with, or hang around other females in mixed company - make like a seagull and get the flock out of there!
 
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@Matoa You seem to have a pattern of getting into abusive relationships. Correct me if I'm wrong. However, if there were other possessive women beside your wife and ex, then "It takes two to tango" might apply in your case.

You've gotten some great advice. The most valuable one was to set the precedent in your next relationship. This doesn't mean make a list and go through each item one by one. Although let's be honest, us men would love to do this since it sounds so reasonable and it'd a big timesaver.

It's simple: communicate and talk about jealousy and infidelity. Nip in the bud before emotions take over, especially in social situations. Now if she can't work with you, and trust that you're not cheating if you glance at, text with, or sometimes hang out with other females - make like a seagull and get the flock out of there!
No others. Looking more broadly, I think perhaps my mistake is being too easy to fulfil a caregiver role, even with friends in the past I look back and think 'everyone else kept a wide berth' except me. One guy I was friends with at college had a major booze and mental health problem and would phone me (actually, my poor parents) in the middle of the night, wasted and in despair. That kind of thing. Rules/boundaries are indeed important, but for many dealing with the borderline personality disorder friend or partner you will regularly see it start quite well but deteriorate, as those boundaries get chipped away at. I still like to think that some of them can sort it all out, but it requires huge effort and awareness, and perhaps healthcare and the funds or network to support it all.

We are all humans and all of us are pretty messed up in some way or other, carry some baggage and trauma. Compassion tends to be a positive trait, but you simply have to know where to draw the line, not just for your sake but also for the sake of your friend or partner, so that he or she can perhaps consider it as a learning experience. 25 years though.... that's a long, long time, so it's nice that there was a happy ending. My own case is even more bonkers with the infidelity thing because I am by no means a remarkably handsome specimen yet my wife is genuinely gorgeous, so the jealousy and fear and so on logically ought to be more on my side than hers. But... mental illness does not follow the logic. It is great to see that there are some very good videos on YouTube on these topics in Indonesian - just a few years ago there would have been close to nothing.
 
I find it hard to imagine jumping from a multi storey building. My thoughts are that on the way down there is enough time to think, I've changed my mind.
I do not remember the source, but I read an article that said that interviews with survivors of jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge revealed that basically every one of them instantly regretted the decision after having jumped. Of course, this is going to be a small sample size.
 
OK, let's take a look.

You are ugly, she is beautiful.
You are not working. Does she work?
Are you currently low in savings?
How much money have you invessted in this marriage?
Is her family involved what so ever?
 

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