Cross Cultural Marriage Blues

[Dan]

On the first trip back to Jakarta after only 9 months he couldn't converse with his grandparents very well, after that, he was embarrassed and he tried harder to speak Indonesian when we got back home. My wife speaks to him 90% of the time in Indonesian, but he answers in English. This past summer he spent 2 months with his grandparents in Jakarta and got back almost to his pre-move ability. Since then he has worked harder to keep it up, he has also started a daily formal lesson plan from my wife. We also have the benefit of having a very diverse population, I would estimate that 40% of his classmates are bilingual which makes it easier for the kids not to feel the pressure to speak English all of the time as they see their friends speaking in other languages with their parents.

This.

I speak in English with my oldest daughter, my wife speaks in Indonesian with her. She responds to her in English, though, because everyone else around her speaks in English. Last time she went back, she would only speak to me in Indonesian, which is fine but pretty much suggests to me that unless both parents are native speakers in the foreign tongue the child will only get about half the benefit.

I am tempted to have home be exclusively Indonesian to see if it will work now that her English is excellent. My understanding is that we've been doing the right way.

 

[Dan]

It's his opinion, and he does make some very valid points as others have pointed out. Although the wordings used might be a little on the harsh side, we're not here to just shout Hosanna to anyone who posts.

What valid points might those be?

 

[Dan]

How often will you be able to see your wife and kids Dan? They are going for 8 months but will you be able to visit them in Indonesia during that time?

Multi-national families are tough. It's a matter of pros and cons: we can't spend as much time with the extended family in return for a richer life and more experience.

In the past 5 years, my son has met my grand parents only once, when he was 6 months old and I've seen them only twice. We hope to be able to visit soon. It is not easy facing the fact that they have missed all these moments by no fault of their own and I have to say that the guilt is very strong. We knew where this would go when we embarked on this adventure so it is no surprise but that does not lessen the emotions in any way.

Also, VanH, don't be so quick to judge. There can be many undisclosed reasons as to why Dan made this choice and if we go by his posting history, it is clear that this must have been a very difficult decision and an even more trying moment for him.

I'll probably be able to visit once or twice. It won't all stink. We had friends who stayed apart for 3 years while their immigration paperwork came through (!).

 

[William King]

We had friends who stayed apart for 3 years while their immigration paperwork came through (!).

:yikes:!

 

[Euc-]

What valid points might those be?

That the place of a husband and father is to be with his wife and children. A house and car are material things that can be replaced, missing a chunk of seeing your kids growing up can't. Who knows what happens after 8 months, could it be extended?

I truly understand the difficulties you're facing, but from Aceh to the USA is literally the other side of the world (ok, literally you would end up just off the coast of Ecuador/Peru but you get the point). You say you couldn't find a job that earns you as much as you do there, except in Jakarta. There are other places in Asia or the world that are much closer to Aceh compared to the USA which could possibly offer similar salaries. Also, what do you hate more, living in Jakarta or being on the other side of the planet from your wife and kids?

Obviously I'm being a keyboard hero here and it's often much easier to talk about these things when it's concerning other people and not ourself. As someone else also mentioned from your previous postings you don't seem someone who takes a decision such as this lightly, and I wish you all the best.

 

[waarmstrong]

The sanctimonious finger wagging is beginning to turn my stomach.

 

[Vanuatu]

This.

I speak in English with my oldest daughter, my wife speaks in Indonesian with her. She responds to her in English, though, because everyone else around her speaks in English. Last time she went back, she would only speak to me in Indonesian, which is fine but pretty much suggests to me that unless both parents are native speakers in the foreign tongue the child will only get about half the benefit.

I am tempted to have home be exclusively Indonesian to see if it will work now that her English is excellent. My understanding is that we've been doing the right way.

My wife has started lessons for 30 minutes a day, the alphabet (he forgot the Indonesian version), spelling, vocabulary and general conversation. It has had a positive effect and he is replying in Indonesian more often now, but still less than 50% of the time.

 

[Puspawarna]

My wife has started lessons for 30 minutes a day, the alphabet (he forgot the Indonesian version), spelling, vocabulary and general conversation. It has had a positive effect and he is replying in Indonesian more often now, but still less than 50% of the time.

Dan and Vanuatu, here is a great book I strongly recommend for you: The Bilingual Family - a Handbook. It is written for lay-people, and chock full of good insights and ideas for raising children to speak more than one language. Even though we aren't technically a bilingual family, we were very committed to making our son bilingual (which he was for a few years - since he was a very early talker and quite loquacious, we had several entertaining years of listening to his marvelous language skills). The advice in that book is great! If we had not moved to Egypt and lost access to native-speaking Indonesians, he'd be fully bilingual today (and the current belief among scientists is that this is really good for your brain). I credit what we read in that book for making our son such a good speaker of two languages.

One assertion in the book that really struck me was that if your child is raised speaking two or more languages, and one of those is English, you will face an uphill battle keeping your children's fluency in the non-English languages at a high level - the kids will prefer English whenever possible. That's apparently because English is ubiquitous and "cool," in the sense that in most countries where English is not the first language, it is associated with advertising, TV, etc. Whereas in English-speaking countries, using another language can be seen as not so cool.

 

[PhilippeD]

Dan and Vanuatu, here is a great book I strongly recommend for you: The Bilingual Family - a Handbook. It is written for lay-people, and chock full of good insights and ideas for raising children to speak more than one language. Even though we aren't technically a bilingual family, we were very committed to making our son bilingual (which he was for a few years - since he was a very early talker and quite loquacious, we had several entertaining years of listening to his marvelous language skills). The advice in that book is great! If we had not moved to Egypt and lost access to native-speaking Indonesians, he'd be fully bilingual today (and the current belief among scientists is that this is really good for your brain). I credit what we read in that book for making our son such a good speaker of two languages.

One assertion in the book that really struck me was that if your child is raised speaking two or more languages, and one of those is English, you will face an uphill battle keeping your children's fluency in the non-English languages at a high level - the kids will prefer English whenever possible. That's apparently because English is ubiquitous and "cool," in the sense that in most countries where English is not the first language, it is associated with advertising, TV, etc. Whereas in English-speaking countries, using another language can be seen as not so cool.

You mean in the US?
I think it's one of the rare country where someone will be look down if he talk something else than english. Us is well know for having the largest uni-lingual population. Everyone have heard of the American tourist who can't understand that someone else in another country can not talk in english.

While in any other country people will be look UP for being able to talk more than 1 language.
We keep up with the 3 language at home. In our context (in a French province in a English country - Politically corrected as a bilingual country... but still...) is highly regarded and encouraged. We keep up with 3 language with the kid - the advantage to live with the grand-parent who took up the 3rd language. Me and my wife we keep english and Bahasa, using both of them.

The biggest trouble is to reach some level of quality in each language. Bringing them to a higher level than "baby talk".
My younger one is still saying "I no do it" instead of "I can't do it" -- which I would still prefer to hear "I can do it!"

For remedy to this from time to time we make "rush" in one language. Talking in almost only one language for a while. This was use particularly for French when my daughter need to keep up more fast before school start. Now she have a (free from the state) personal french teacher half hour per day every day of school.
They will find it a joke when they will start the (quite basic) english course later in school!

I take the custom to talk them in Bahasa when we live in Indonesia and I continue to talk to them in Bahasa for many daily thing (like calling them for their bath). I think (and hope) they will keep up the 3 language. But it's very more hard to teach them right each language.

We work hard for them being trilingual and it's an evolutive method depending of their needs and situation.

 

[waarmstrong]

I understand the English-only mindset is a common put down of Americans. The stereotype like many, has an element of truth, especially when applied to some aging, xenophobia, mostly white conservatives, but it is not, like most stereotypes, universally applicable.

Keep in mind that America remains a country of immigrants, with ever increasing numbers of bilingual citizens who proudly trace their ancestry to other countries. Most of you are rightly assuming I am referring to recent Latin, Asian, and Middle Eastern immigrants, but the attitude also extends to earlier waves and their descendants. My state, Iowa, has a number of thriving communities founded by Scandinavian, Dutch and German immigrants where proficiency in the ancestral language is revered. Its an attitude that transfers easily to anyone able to speak a second language and that includes largely Latino immigrants filling packing plant and construction trades jobs across the state.

 

[PhilippeD]

I understand the English-only mindset is a common put down of Americans. The stereotype like many, has an element of truth, especially when applied to some aging, xenophobia, mostly white conservatives, but it is not, like most stereotypes, universally applicable.

Keep in mind that America remains a country of immigrants, with ever increasing numbers of bilingual citizens who proudly trace their ancestry to other countries. Most of you are rightly assuming I am referring to recent Latin, Asian, and Middle Eastern immigrants, but the attitude also extends to earlier waves and their descendants. My state, Iowa, has a number of thriving communities founded by Scandinavian, Dutch and German immigrants where proficiency in the ancestral language is revered. Its an attitude that transfers easily to anyone able to speak a second language and that includes largely Latino immigrants filling packing plant and construction trades jobs across the state.

**Sarcastic mode ON**
Don't worry, after Trump make the clean up it would not left much of those who have the guts to have something else than English as native language!

**Sarcastic mode OFF**

When I write the text I had a though about those immigrant and though it would make the text too heavy the read to include it.
It is said that 1/4 of the American population can talk 2 languages, mostly Spanish *see my sarcastic note*.
I know in recent time their is more and more American learning Spanish but it's quite far away of other country like in Europe.