Being Black In Indonesia

Vanhelsing

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Imagine having to start a whole new life on the other side of the world. Well, that was me, when I had to leave the States—a place I had called home for the past 16 years—and head to Jakarta to continue my teaching career.

Once the novelty wore off, I became painfully aware of the way people reacted whenever I stepped outside of my apartment building,......

The stares, finger pointing, laughing and double looks (sometimes more) became something that I encountered day in and day out. As a black person, while I had encountered some negative interactions due to the colour of my skin, nothing had been as intense as this experience.

Here in Indonesia, I have learnt what it means to be both black and African (I say African because here, as in America, there’s not much differentiation). Colourism is most definitely in play here, as the darker your skin colour, the more you are treated differently. There is a great preference for lighter/fairer skinned people....

However, one irony I have found is that even the darker-skinned Indonesians point, stare, and laugh. It’s not only confusing, but disappointing as well, because I would think that because we are both more or less in the same boat,......

But the worst kind of discrimination is reserved for the Africans. In a country obsessed with fair skin and skin lightening beauty treatments, their dark skin draws a mixture of fear and ridicule.

He then stated that the reason why people stare is because “black is sexy.” I will admit, I laughed, as this was not a response I was expecting. However, as he continued to go on about it, I began to wonder, was he saying that because I was African? Was he associating black with being sexy because of fallacy of “Africans being prostitutes”?

Full Article https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/10/indonesia/503372/
 
Was he associating black with being sexy because of fallacy of “Africans being prostitutes”?

Without going into this young lady's experiences which undoubtedly included racism, this question is so out of left field it's amazing. I've never heard this fallacy in all my almost 20 years in Indonesia.

How is the reaction any different than the normal laughing, starring and pointing at "bule"?
 
Re; Post # 1.
If that is you in the red dress Van I suggest you change your avatar...you are simply gorgeous...:first:

Edit: Ooops sorry.... I thought you wrote the post and not just copy/paste.
 
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Re; Post # 1.
If that is you in the red dress Van I suggest you change your avatar...you are simply gorgeous...:first:

A girl does what she can, Davita.

How is the reaction any different than the normal laughing, starring and pointing at "bule"?

I actually dated an African American school teacher in Indonesia coincidentally enough with her skin being darker than the young lady in the article, and I have to say I never noticed any more attention given to her than myself.
 
I think many Africans are associated as drug dealers. Never heard of prostitutes though.
 
How is the reaction any different than the normal laughing, starring and pointing at "bule"?

Probably isn't, but then again, I'm not black either. Hence, I couldn't say what being openly called a ‘negro’ and ‘nigger’ would be like. I can't imagine it's pleasant though.
 
I had an African American mate in Saudi, one day we were partnered up, so before we started work I said, What we doing boy, he got quite upset at the boy, I explained to him in my home county, boy is used the same or in lieu of Mate, that calmed him down, but I made a point of not calling him boy again
 
I had an African American mate in Saudi, one day we were partnered up, so before we started work I said, What we doing boy, he got quite upset at the boy, I explained to him in my home county, boy is used the same or in lieu of Mate, that calmed him down, but I made a point of not calling him boy again

Reminds me of this famous faux pas from Australia:
 
A similar story to Anglian.
We had a USAF African American on transfer to our Squadron in the RAF. He was liked by everyone as he was an exceptional piano-player and used to entertain us in the mess. He was also extremely good at playing darts.
Slightly inebriated one night, after an evening of fun, I stupidly asked him "How come you have such talent to fly an airplane, play the piano and throw darts?" he replied "Black hands, man!"
I liked him a lot more and can still remember that episode.....over 50 years ago.
 
White guys stick out like a sore thumb in Africa. As does a Celtic/Liverpool supporter at a Ranger's/Everton game Is that different?

Really not much to do with colour more to do with not being the same.
 
It is rather more complicated than "not being the same". It is also to do with power positions, a residual hangover from slavery. colonialism and wealth. Through the last century and into this those with power and wealth have used a variety of measures from brutality to snobbery to maintain their superior status. This has more often been powerful white groups prepared to put down any interlopers. The British upper classes regarded the lower classes with contempt as is often the case, for example in many other European, Asian and African countries. I have seen extremely black skinned people sneered at and laughed at by otherAfricans that white people would also regard as "black". And being dark skinned throughout Asia is often equated with lower status as dark skin resulting from manual labour outdoors.

Those people who have most often been on the downside are left with a kind of cultural bitterness and heightened sensitivity towards elitism, snobbery and racism. It is much easier to deal with standing out and being the centre of attention if you are white in an Asian or African country. Our fortitude is not undermined by the insecurity often felt by non whites. So we can laugh off these overt reactions. Not so easy if you are black or coloured and suspicious that the whites reacting are doing so because they are racist.
 
I should hasten to add that making generalizations such as, "The British upper classes regarded the lower classes with contempt." is fraught also as it does not allow for the fact that many upper class people are not prejudiced. My own prejudices showing through.
 
It is also to do with power positions, a residual hangover from slavery. colonialism and wealth.

When I was of an impressionable age there was one Jamaican guy in town. He was the town's window cleaner and used to ride around town on his bicycle with ladder attached. He was neither a slave nor was he regarded as poor. The fact that his skin was a different colour was neither mentioned nor really noticed if one was young. He was simply Mr. Johnson the window cleaner.

Slavery was abolished a long time ago but African Americans still use it as a crutch for lack of whatever. It is a sort of "woe is me" excuse for everything. Agreed there are less "Africans' in Canada but they don't seem to display the same "woe is me" attitude they simply get on with life and feel happy where they live. Same applies in London. I have met and run with many Africans. Kenyans, Nigerians, et al and they don't exhibit the "woe is me" factor either. They don't seem to feel different and are not treated as such. Agreed they are affluent otherwise they wouldn't be in Asia but still.

In small social gatherings and in conversation it is not the colour of ones skin which dictates attitude but whether or not one is a complete tool !
 
Oops somehow managed:doh: to reply to my own post instead of editing.
 
In the U.K. You are classified as soon as you open your mouth, when I was a kid going up to see my Gran in Gateshead, people would say to my mum, Doesn't he talk posh
 
In the U.K. You are classified as soon as you open your mouth, when I was a kid going up to see my Gran in Gateshead, people would say to my mum, Doesn't he talk posh

I know what you're talking about.
Even in the RAF, in hindsight, I was aware that I was held back from promotion from NCO to Commissioned Officer because of my heavy Scots accent.
That was until I was interviewed by my boss 'Jock' Kennedy (who became ACM Sir Jock Kennedy who spoke just like me)....I was sent to Officer Cadet school soon after.
Some years later 'Jock' Kennedy was "tasked with organising an airlift of oil into Ndola and Lusaka, and over the next few months Kennedy spent much time in Nairobi commanding the RAF detachment"....I was his 2nd in command.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obi...-Chief-Marshal-Sir-Jock-Kennedy-obituary.html

I never aspired to his elevated rank. I saw the writing on the wall and resigned to join an airline and make some money....money doesn't care about accents or colour.
 
I had a very pleasant dinner with the lady who wrote that piece a few months ago. I only met her once and cannot claim to know her very well but she certainly didn't come across as the sensitive type and understood that she was a rarity here in Jakarta so expected to be looked at (like all of us here who aren't Asian).

However, her experience of sticking out was far beyond what I have experienced here. I'm european and quite tall, sometimes I frighten children but generally I get smiles and a few whispers, I've never actually had a negative experience in this regard. I think some of the posters here have underestimated how it feels to be pointed at and laughed at on a daily basis. She was here solo so would have experienced most of this while alone without someone to help brush it off or laugh about it (and then gone home alone to slowly stew over everything too).

When I met this lady she was planning on leaving jakarta soon after, she had been worn down by it all gradually and was just so tired of it. I don't think for a second that the taxi driver's silly comment was in any way linked with thinking black ladies here are potential prostitutes but I do understand that experiencing Jakarta in her shoes could affect the way you react/ think about silly comments from taxi drivers.
 
When I was of an impressionable age there was one Jamaican guy in town. He was the town's window cleaner and used to ride around town on his bicycle with ladder attached. He was neither a slave nor was he regarded as poor. The fact that his skin was a different colour was neither mentioned nor really noticed if one was young. He was simply Mr. Johnson the window cleaner.

Slavery was abolished a long time ago but African Americans still use it as a crutch for lack of whatever. It is a sort of "woe is me" excuse for everything. Agreed there are less "Africans' in Canada but they don't seem to display the same "woe is me" attitude they simply get on with life and feel happy where they live. Same applies in London. I have met and run with many Africans. Kenyans, Nigerians, et al and they don't exhibit the "woe is me" factor either. They don't seem to feel different and are not treated as such. Agreed they are affluent otherwise they wouldn't be in Asia but still.

In small social gatherings and in conversation it is not the colour of ones skin which dictates attitude but whether or not one is a complete tool !

Oh dear god, you're one of those "slavery ended, get over it" believers.

I had a similar outlook growing up, thinking that my area in the Pacific Northwest was very open-minded, inclusive, and basically that racism only really existed in the South or middle America. As an adult in Seattle, many POC friends of mine helped me to see how their day-to-day interactions and experiences were different than mine as a white person. I even had a few Black friends who had moved from the South tell me that Seattle was more racist. That really surprised me, because it completely contradicted everything I had believed and experienced.

Admittedly, I at first quietly thought they were being "too sensitive" or bewailing "woe is me," etc. Then it became hard to deny after seeing some things happen up close. Friends of mine were assumed to be shoplifters, stared at while walking with their white boyfriend/girlfriend, turned down for jobs in place of a less qualified candidate, questioned about their disability when using a discounted bus pass, and even verbally harassed by people yelling racial slurs at them.

I don't know Mr. Johnson, so I can't put words in his mouth. But I definitely don't think you, as simply a young person who lived in the same town, would know everything he experienced.
 
^ Sounds like an American perspective where most of the "woe is me" people live.
 
Re vocalneal:

Wow, your skills of deduction are astonishing.

I guess you're right. There's nothing wrong with being verbally harassed with racial slurs, falsely accused of crimes, being forced to explain your disability before being allowed to board a bus... My friends are just fragile little *******.

If that's really your opinion, you're disgusting.
 
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